The Trayvon Martin Case (updated title)

[twa]

I don't disagree but I doubt you ran at large guys for asking you if you lived around here. A person that volatile would have a history IMO. The point is he initiated the confrontation that ended in him shooting a kid on a candy run. There is a tape of what sounds like a young person screaming help that stops after a gun shot.

Encouraging them come to ya is better and more defensible if you are the only one walking away,but I did many irrational things I won't go into

the main question is really who escalated the confrontation to the point deadly force 'might' be justified,not who started it....was the wound to the head from his head hitting the concrete and the big guy squealing like a pig?
History is open to being unwritten.....just as this shooter or kid's could be

[Teller]

God, that audio is bone chilling.

[Prosperity]

I respect not making a judgment before all the facts are in or known. But what's your gut on this?

I think that the watchman probably ended up provoking the kid into a fight, the kid kicked his ass and then the watchman shot him.

[Yusuf06]

Trayvon Martin's "Murder"

I'm not so convinced it was murder

You're right. I think the thread title should be changed to homicide instead.

[Teller]

I think that the watchman probably ended up provoking the kid into a fight, the kid kicked his ass and then the watchman shot him.

Makes sense. Thanks.

(I pried a little because you're a reasonable guy, and I appreciate your opinions.)

---------- Post added March-19th-2012 at 08:47 PM ----------

You're right. I think the thread title should be changed to homicide instead.

The thread is titled correctly, because it's the title of the article in the OP. But I understand your premise.

[twa]

I think that the watchman probably ended up provoking the kid into a fight, the kid kicked his ass and then the watchman shot him.

I think you and skinsfan are probably right or close
question is did the the ass kicking reach the point deadly force 'could' be justified.

[skinsfan_1215]

I think you and skinsfan are probably right or close
question is did the the ass kicking reach the point deadly force 'could' be justified.

If Zimmerman was the provocateur of the engagement, which it certainly appears he was, I'm not sure that even matters from a legal perspective. Considering everything Martin would have been doing would be self defense as well.

[Kilmer17]

As to the OP. It is completely possible for it to not be self defense and not be racism.

[Duckus]

This afternoon I was thinking to myself, what would I do at 17 years old if I was walking down to street and someone started following me in a car and then got out and started yelling/demanding answers to questions.

Honestly, I would be utterly terrified. I would think someone was trying to rob me or kill me and I would fight for me life.

What would you do?

Just makes me realize how terrified Trayvon must have been in the last few minutes of his life. Completely confused and scared. Horrible.

I think you and skinsfan are probably right or close
question is did the the ass kicking reach the point deadly force 'could' be justified.

I am no lawyer, but can you start a fight, get your ass kicked, then shoot someone in self-defense? Seems like the fact that Zimmerman started it hurts his self defense claim.

[Prosperity]

Fla. Stat.§ 776.012

A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

[section 776.013 concerns situations where someone is breaking into a house... aka the castle doctrine]

[skinsfan_1215]

Thanks for posting Prosperity. Again begs the question, what were the extent of his injuries? Severe enough that it would be a reasonable assumption that he had to use deadly force in order to prevent great bodily harm or death?

Edit: just read that Zimmerman had a bloody nose and some blood on the back of his head. Also that an eye witness indicated that at one point Martin was on top of Zimmerman during the fight, but that they separated. Very curious to know where the two were in relation to each other at the time of the shooting.

[ardowling]

Fla. Stat.§ 776.012

A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

[section 776.013 concerns situations where someone is breaking into a house... aka the castle doctrine]

R.I.P. to the victim hope he and his family get justice. TN law is pretty close to FL law and at first glace this is a bad shoot by a cop wannabe, he had no duty to pursue the victim and as a "watch commander" his only duty was to observe and report. With what is known now, the shooter should go to jail, this type of thing gives a bad name to responsible concealed carry permit holders.

[LadySkinsFan]

They wouldn't want me on the jury. An armed man stalked and killed an unarmed boy. First degree murder with probably hate crime if they have that in Florida since the stalked victim was black and killed by a white man.

This is a pretty reprehensible murder and the fact that the police didn't even bother to investigate it says a ton about race relations in Florida. Most probably exacerbated by Newt's campaign down South and all his coded language.

[Stadium-Armory]

I think I read that the shooter is Hispanic, but there seems to be some question about whether or not it is fact. It might also be true to say that Hispanic is "white", but I'm not sure really how all that works.

[LadySkinsFan]

Hispanics are just a prejudiced against blacks down in FL too. And Zimmerman isn't really an Hispanic name, so maybe he's mixed Hispanic/White.

Regardless, here's the scenario based on the Florida law.

Zimmerman is stalking Martin down the street. Martin defends himself against Zimmerman, so self-defense on Martin's part. If the parties broke apart after the fight where Martin is on top of Zimmerman, then Zimmerman then shot him, Zimmerman has no self-defense argument because the fight was over. Zimmerman shooting Martin is first degree, because he had a duty to not fire and he chose to fire. Of course this is all conjecture based on the OP.