The Trayvon Martin Case (updated title)

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Why does every story involving the death of a black man insist on suggesting racism regardless of the circumstances? I see nothing in this story, or any of the other stories surrounding this incident, that suggests racism.

Aside from the fact that he apparently thought the guy was suspicious because he was black.

---------- Post added March-20th-2012 at 10:37 AM ----------

does nothing to dull the pain this man feels for having snuffed out the life of a 17 year old kid.

Oh...the poor dear.

[Riggo-toni]

First, from what I've read I think it was a mixture of the killer being a power tripping cop wannabe and racism...perhaps 80% on the power trip side of the equation.

This would be my guess as well.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Even if Zimmerman acted on racial motivations, it's still possible that he didnt break the law.

The only way he didn't break the law is if this was self defense.

He chases down an unarmed teenager - against the orders of the 911 operator - and kills him. I don't see any scenario where that becomes self defense.

---------- Post added March-20th-2012 at 10:44 AM ----------

I think that the watchman probably ended up provoking the kid into a fight, the kid kicked his ass and then the watchman shot him.

How is that not murder?

You don't get to claim self defense in a dangerous situation that you instigated.

[skins_fan1982]

I don't see the crime as being racist either. I don't even find the police not arresting Zimmerman anything to do with race...

Regardless if the shooter black or white, and if the kid was black or white, Zimmerman should be in jail right now.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I think you and skinsfan are probably right or close
question is did the the ass kicking reach the point deadly force 'could' be justified.

No. Because, legally, it is impossible for this to ever become self defense if Zimmerman instigated the confrontation. The foreseeability begins with the initial controntation. All escalations are foreseeable at that point.

---------- Post added March-20th-2012 at 10:47 AM ----------

Fla. Stat.§ 776.012

A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

[section 776.013 concerns situations where someone is breaking into a house... aka the castle doctrine]

A. That is not relevent if Zimmerman initiated the confrontation.
B. Even if it was, at no point are his actions reasonable.

---------- Post added March-20th-2012 at 10:50 AM ----------

to what point?

I would agree using force to detain w/o evidence of a crime is over the line,but what about confrontation?
do we KNOW how it escalated from confrontation?

That doe not matter.

Again, I repeat, it does not matter.

Zimmerman started the confrontation. Once that happens, self defense goes away.

[Sticksboi05]

Aside from the fact that he apparently thought the guy was suspicious because he was black.

---------- Post added March-20th-2012 at 10:37 AM ----------



Oh...the poor dear.

100% agree with both statements LKB.

[SkinInsite]

Apparently in Florida you can claim self defense if you get in to a gang shootout.

[skins_fan1982]

Right. How can you claim self defense after chasing somebody down...and that's after he got out of his car when he was ordered not to...

[Kosher Ham]

I don't want to give the guy an excuse because he really doesn't have one...perhaps the Martin reached for Zimmerman's gun.

And will do G. Just texted my brother, but I think he is traveling today. Side note: He is a basketball junkie like us too. haha. He however is a bandwagon fan. Give him ****.

[Corcaigh]

Apparently in Florida you can claim self defense if you get in to a gang shootout.

It looks like it. I think you can break into someone's house and shoot the home owner if they ask you to leave.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I don't want to give the guy an excuse because he really doesn't have one...perhaps the Martin reached for Zimmerman's gun.

Doesn't matter.

Self defense is a very specific legal concept. It doesn't magically materialize everytime you feel threatened.

Let's say I break into your house. I have no intent to kill you. I just want to beat the **** out of you. I pistol whip you like I'm Henry Hill and you are that annoying Jewish guy who hit on Karen Hill. This goes on for a while. In the scuffle, I drop my gun and you grab it. I have another gun.

Am I now justified in killing you?

---------- Post added March-20th-2012 at 11:04 AM ----------

Apparently in Florida you can claim self defense if you get in to a gang shootout.

Not if you start the shoot out. Unless Florida law is really really really ****ing stupid. (Which is always a possibility).

[Teller]

I don't see the crime as being racist either. I don't even find the police not arresting Zimmerman anything to do with race...

Regardless if the shooter black or white, and if the kid was black or white, Zimmerman should be in jail right now.

Your conclusion is correct, IMO.

But even I believe that if the races are reversed, an arrest is made on the spot.

[Kosher Ham]

Doesn't matter.

Self defense is a very specific legal concept. It doesn't magically materialize everytime you feel threatened.

Let's say I break into your house. I have no intent to kill you. I just want to beat the **** out of you. I pistol whip you like I'm Henry Hill and you are that annoying Jewish guy who hit on Karen Hill. This goes on for a while. In the scuffle, I drop my gun and you grab it. I have another gun.

Am I now justified in killing you?

Okay, that is a crazy scenario (and funny), but I would have to say yes. Justified. How do I know that you are not going to kill me after a pistol whipping ? How would you feel after that beating ? Perhaps you wish you could kill that guy that is threatening your life ?

[Corcaigh]

Am I now justified in killing you?

I don't have enough information. Is the homeowner wearing a hoodie or carrying tea?

[ZoEd]

Let me start by saying this, there's no way to justify or rationalize this guy stalking a 17yr old and shooting him, no matter what color he was.

That being said, I always find myself shaking my head at the fact people always jump to racism and hate crime when it involves a black person being the victim. Civil rights groups come out of the woodwork screaming for justice!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0...men-c_n_891056

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktl...,4446416.story

Read the articles, black on Hispanic, where's the NAACP screaming for justice of a hate crime? Not one mention of it being a hate crime or racially motivated. Why?

When the Marine who recently returned from Afghanistan and his wife were jumped outside the movie theater in DC by a group of black teens, where were these same groups crying for justice?

You would think groups hell bent on seeking justice for racial equality would be just as pissed and passionate about the idiots giving them a bad name, driving the stereotypes that they fight so hard against.

Nope, only non blacks committing a crime on a black can be guilty of a racially motivated "hate" crime.

Again, not defending the asshat who shot the kid, but just because the kid was black and the shooter wasn't, does not make it racial. We all stereotype in some shape or form everyday, it's human nature.