PFT.COM Carlos Rogers confirms that Gregg Williams used bounties in D.C.

[afkidd]

It doesn't matter if the same coaches are still here or not, the organization can get penalized/fined regardless of who's left.

A company can't win a lawsuit using the "he doesn't work here anymore" excuse.

yea, but they aren't going to suspend mike for any games. at the maximum they'll take a 2nd round draft pick and a fine.

[HailGreen28]

4 years 31 mill. not bad.

Per this source, not an iron-clad one (http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/carlos-r...1-mil-1720061/), it's only about 2 mil guaranteed and around probably 7.5 mil per season if he plays out 4 years. Sounds like it ought to be 2 mil guaranteed per year instead of total? And it pales next to contracts like Nnamdi's 5 year 60 mil.

If that's what Carlos gets for one good year in San Fran, think of how much money he could have gotten if he could have caught INTs in Washington. Carlos still screwed himself.

[Destino]

It's interesting that people think trashing Rogers and pointing out his flaws and failures matters at all. That's a high draft pick contributing somewhere else. Management has to find a way to manage egos and keep players on the field. There isn't a single first round pick on this team that was drafted by us prior to 2009 (orakpo).

Los is now running his mouth in a way that could hurt us if that dumbass Goodel decides to make another statement. I do not care who people think is to blame, only what the skins can do to improve. Personally I don't think the skins medical staff is trusted, proactive, or broad enough from what I hear. Landry clearly doesn't trust them. Los clearly would have improved had they just approved the relatively minor cost. This team constantly is hammered with injuries. What is being done to change this?

[GothSkinsFan]

That's exactly what I'm talking about. The whole culture in Washington, Philadelphia, New York and, to a lesser degree, Dallas is completely different than San Diego in terms of professional football.

Same with LA (like SD). S.F. is different, though, because we really don't have a siesta lifestyle -- toooo cold to go to the beach. OTOH, my mom wasn't a pro-football fan until her early 40's (college football fan - Cal), a few years after we moved to NoVa, but it was all Skins, all the time, and esp. being before free agency, it felt like she got to know the players and thus became a fan. Got to the point where when my mom was in her 60's, at a dinner party with similar-aged folks, she was the only woman in the room watching the Skins (the other ladies doing lady stuff). One guy insinuated that she didn't know football wherein she proceeded to bust out stats, talk plays, and reel off players she liked. ;-> Didn't mean to hijack the thread, but I think women know a lot more about football than guys give them credit for.

[NLC1054]

It's interesting that people think trashing Rogers and pointing out his flaws and failures matters at all. That's a high draft pick contributing somewhere else. Management has to find a way to manage egos and keep players on the field. There isn't a single first round pick on this team that was drafted by us prior to 2009 (orakpo).

Los is now running his mouth in a way that could hurt us if that dumbass Goodel decides to make another statement. I do not care who people think is to blame, only what the skins can do to improve. Personally I don't think the skins medical staff is trusted, proactive, or broad enough from what I hear. Landry clearly doesn't trust them. Los clearly would have improved had they just approved the relatively minor cost. This team constantly is hammered with injuries. What is being done to change this?

How much can management do when player's aren't motivated to be the best?

I agree with the general concept, but again; this is a guy who pissed away his own money. This is a guy who didn't work hard. This is a guy who was at the club all weaken and then didn't perform on Sunday's. Is that the organizations fault? Maybe partially. But when Mike came in he sought to change all that. And when he tried to change that, 'Los shut down. In fact, 'Los shut down when Gibbs left.

It's managements job to manage egos and keep players on the field. On the same token, when it's obvious those players don't want to contribute, it's time to cut bait and move on. That's what we did with 'Los, and Landry. And the fact is, more than anything, those two guys sealed their own fate. We can sit here and argue back and forth about whether or not the Redskins should've paid for 'Los surgery. The bottom line is, the two sides had reached a clear impasse. Just like the Redskins had reached an impasse with Laron.

With Dirty, we offered a solution to the problem that wouldn't require surgery. Then we had the lockout where we couldn't check in on him and have him in for rehab. Then, once it had become clear that the procedure they tried wasn't going to work, the Redskins said the best route would be for him to get surgery. And then LARON refused to get surgery. Understandable, it's hard injury to come back from. But he steadfastly refused to get the one procedure that would help him. And then he got upset with the Redskins medical staff for offering him the solution that he now treats like the only option for the problem, despite all indications being that he has bone spurs in his achillies now that make the treatment he's getting pointless. And to make things worse, from what the insider's say, if we had tried to tag Laron, he wouldn't have signed his tender, and he was going to demand a long term deal from us instead of a short-term "prove it" deal.

So rather than deal with that headache, the Redskins let him go. Dirty didn't want to be here anymore. 'Los didn't want to be here. Why the hell should the Redskins go out of their way to help people that don't want to be here? The Redskins aren't some saintly organization, far ****in' from it, but all this **** that happens between the organization and the players is a two way street.

And the fact is that, the reason 'Los didn't get his eyes fixed himself and demanded the organization pay for it, was because he didn't want to be here. He'd already made his mind up and had his eyes (no pun intended) set on free agency when Gibbs left, or at least after the first year of Zorn. That's why he got pissed when Bruce and Mike tagged him, and why he then proceeded to half-ass his way through the season.

You're right dude. It doesn't matter. Great for 'Los, he got his little deal (and it is little---2 million guaranteed ain't much, especially when you go through bread like does) and he got his little Pro Bowl, and he can make the Redskins look bad. But what gets me, is that instead of simply being satisfied that he was right all along, he has to run his mouth. He can't be happy with success, just like Lavar can't be happy with success.

How often does Ryan Clark bring up the Redskins? How often did Antonio Pierce, who had a MUCH bigger beef with the Redskins, bring up the Redskins. Those guys moved on, and they got their rings, and their time with the Redskins is just a memory.

[Destino]

How much can management do when player's aren't motivated to be the best?

Nothing. Clearly the redskins have done everything right and there is nothing they can do to improve here.

The rest of your pst is whining nonsense about the mean players which I've already stated doesn't interest me. In business I'm not interested in why things failed. How are they improved going forward. I'd like to know that before we're having the same discussions about Orakpo and Kerrigan in afew years.

[NLC1054]

Nothing. Clearly the redskins have done everything right and there is nothing they can do to improve here.

The rest of your pst is whining nonsense about the mean players which I've already stated doesn't interest me. In business I'm not interested in why things failed. How are they improved going forward. I'd like to know that before we're having the same discussions about Orakpo and Kerrigan in afew years.

*rolls eyes*

Okay, Destino, you caught me. Clearly I'm just on the Redskins jock and saying that the Redskins are absolved of any and all wrong doing.

The way things are improved is that you seek not to draft and add players to your team that will replicate the behaviors those who have left you have exhibited in the past. Thus far, we haven't. I doubt Kerrigan and Orakpo will have the same problems because, all around, their better players, better professionals and better people than 'Los or Dirty were and are.

But yeah. You got me pegged sir. Clearly we've done nothing over the last two and a half years to improve any of this stuff. Just whiny non-sense from a homer. Don't mind me..

[SpringfieldSkins]

I don't get it NLC. If you look at the Redskins track record in the last 10-15 years, the Redskins have done almost nothing but let good players get away and brought in players who didn't play as we expected. The burden of proof is on the organization to prove to me that they can sustain talent in this city. Not only can we not keep our top end players here but we can't ensure that the free agent signings produce either. This is a problem with our organization 100%. You can't just bad mouth every single player who leaves here unhappy. There are too many of those players for it to be just a couple of "bad apples". This becomes especially clear when those players go on to other teams and perform better than they ever did here.

As far as Carlos, it really seemed to me that he was defending Gregg Williams. He admitted that the "bounty system" happened here. Of course the bounty system happened here, is anyone on this board naive enough to believe that it didn't? He explained that players were paid for legal hits. He downplayed how terrible it is being made out to be. If anything, Carlos gave up after Gregg Williams got canned. Hell, I'd be inclined to give up as well after a dumb decision like that by this organization. Let us not forget the Jim Zorn era.


All that said, I am confident that Shannahan and Allen are attempting to build an environment that encourages strong character and excellent play on the field.

[2cents]

If you can't see Redskins' management has improved since Bruce and Shanny arrived, I really don't know what to say to you. I mean, how much more obvious can it be. Really.

[HailGreen28]

I don't get it NLC. If you look at the Redskins track record in the last 10-15 years, the Redskins have done almost nothing but let good players get away and brought in players who didn't play as we expected. The burden of proof is on the organization to prove to me that they can sustain talent in this city. Not only can we not keep our top end players here but we can't ensure that the free agent signings produce either. This is a problem with our organization 100%. You can't just bad mouth every single player who leaves here unhappy. There are too many of those players for it to be just a couple of "bad apples". This becomes especially clear when those players go on to other teams and perform better than they ever did here.

As far as Carlos, it really seemed to me that he was defending Gregg Williams. He admitted that the "bounty system" happened here. Of course the bounty system happened here, is anyone on this board naive enough to believe that it didn't? He explained that players were paid for legal hits. He downplayed how terrible it is being made out to be. If anything, Carlos gave up after Gregg Williams got canned. Hell, I'd be inclined to give up as well after a dumb decision like that by this organization. Let us not forget the Jim Zorn era.


All that said, I am confident that Shannahan and Allen are attempting to build an environment that encourages strong character and excellent play on the field.

Not saying you're wholly wrong. But we've kept Cooley, Moss, Marcus W., Rocky M., and other players as long as we wanted to. Brought Smoot back as well. Landry has played for us awhile, maybe we're confusing all the departures with Redskins ineptness; when the typical tenure of a player with any team, and the occasional bad apple like Haynesworth, has had something to do with it too.

edit: And losing seasons do make everything worse by themselves.

[HeluCopter29]

I really don't care about what Carlos Rogers said at all, and neither should you.

I know the media messes this fact up a lot, but we as fans know that the organization now and the organization two years ago are completely different. I'm ashamed to say that Gregg Williams was a defensive coordinator here and at one point was considered to be the favorite to be the head coach, but it's all in the past now for me. If I'm not mistaken the only player still left from Williams last year hear is London Fletcher, and he hasn't even resigned yet.

If you give a troll (Carlos Rogers) the time of day, you'll only make a situation that really doesn't affect you a major issue.

Let's not waste time talking about the 2007 team and let's focus on 2012, shall we?

[Destino]

If you can't see Redskins' management has improved since Bruce and Shanny arrived, I really don't know what to say to you. I mean, how much more obvious can it be. Really.

Things have improved and it's obvious. We even have a place to practice when it's raining now. The thing is I feel like the team is still catching up instead of leading. Rome wasn't built in a day however so progress is as good as can be expected currently.

[oscarsandman]

This is nothing new but I just heard that Mike Shanahan said on pro football talk live that the league spoke to people in the Redskins organization about the time when Gregg Williams was here but that he doesn't know if anything came of it. He also referenced PD and implied that he believed him when he said there wasn't a bounty system here.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

^^ I will take PD's word over Los any day of the week

[Boss_Hogg]

Los has an axe to grind, so take his testimony with a grain of salt.