Achtung! Oktoberfest 2012

[Skinz4Life12]

Grey, dirty city. Not really a lot to do there. Van Gogh museum was the coolest thing, by far. I guess you have to really want to smoke pot to have a good time in Amsterdam.

lol good call. the fiance doesn't really go there but I always thought it would be awesome.

Maybe we should just travel around one country instead. Like see Rome, Florence, and Venice for a few days each

[renaissance]

lol good call. the fiance doesn't really go there but I always thought it would be awesome.

Maybe we should just travel around one country instead. Like see Rome, Florence, and Venice for a few days each

My only advice on Europe is don't limit yourself to one country!!

[Skinz4Life12]

My only advice on Europe is don't limit yourself to one country!!

Yea I don't really want to do that I was just throwing it out there. what countries did you visit?

[renaissance]

France, Switzerland, Austria, and Italia when I was in high school.

We took the overnight train at one point and did everything else by bus (chartered). Was a 3 week trip.

[Elessar78]

I just found out that work is sending me to Munich in mid-September this year. Yesss!!!

[techboy]

Grey, dirty city. Not really a lot to do there. Van Gogh museum was the coolest thing, by far. I guess you have to really want to smoke pot to have a good time in Amsterdam.

That wasn't really our experience... There are 2 or 3 world class art museums (Van Gogh as well as a couple others), the Anne Frank House is powerful, and the Dutch Resistance Museum was fascinating. I don't know if I would have wanted to stay more than a few days, but I did enjoy it. It's definitely not up to the biggies like Rome and Paris, though.

Maybe we should just travel around one country instead. Like see Rome, Florence, and Venice for a few days each

Honestly, that might be the best plan, though you can easily string together multiple countries if they're close (Paris/London is a great combo) or by night train.

The only thing I'd caution you about is that while Rome is my favorite city in the world (we're going back this spring, in fact), it's also a kick in the teeth and serious culture shock if you're not ready for it. It's crowded, noisy, in your face, the traffic is crazy, and you have to learn to deal with the Southern Italian approach to life and timeliness. People either love it or hate it. Learning a little Italian helps immensely.

Of course, we love Rome, and we love Naples, which is Rome squared.

Rome, Florence, and Venice are all connected by very high speed trains now, though, so it'd be no more than 3 hours from one to the next.

Again, though, for Europe first timers, Paris and/or London are much more user friendly.

[No_Pressure]

Out of major European cities I've visited here is what I walked away with:

1. Paris is great, but the French are...well...the French.

2. Rome was not the highlight of my trip to Italy, but rather Florence and Venice in that order. That isn't to say there aren't great things to do and see in Rome, but I got a much better vibe from Florence, and Venice may be the most unique city in the history of humanity.

3. Vienna was amazing. I attended two classical music concerts, visited many of the palaces and remnants of the Habsburgs. I would highly recommend going to Vienna.

4. Munich was amazing, it really appealed to me. I love beer halls, beer gardens, the friendly nature of everyone I met.

5. London is easy if you can't speak German, and can't get by without knowing any Italian or French.

6. I've never been but I heard that Madrid and many other major areas of Spain are marvelous.

[techboy]

1. Paris is great, but the French are...well...the French.

A couple of things here:

1. Talk to any Frenchman, and if he's not a Parisian he will insist that Parisians are a different breed than the French. They're rather sensitive about it, actually. My friend's husband Luc insists that unless you get outside of Paris, you haven't really visited France.

2. The French, even the Parisians, have always been wonderfully friendly to us in our travels. I think the key is that we take the time to learn a few key pleasantries and a bit of the culture. The French are very formal, and it is customary to say "Bonjour madam (or monsieur)" when entering a shop, for instance. Americans are much more informal, and what is normal to us seems rude to them. I was standing in line at a street vendor, and there was an American in front of me who leapt straight into her order, in English, without even saying hello first. She got the stereotypical French attitude. I began with "Bonjour Monsieur", and attempted to order en Francais (we always learn at least how to say "two", "please", and point), and he was very friendly.

Attempt to speak French, and they will quickly switch to English (to stop you mangling their language ), even though if you ask if they speak English, they will often say no, because they are perfectionists.

2. Rome was not the highlight of my trip to Italy, but rather Florence and Venice in that order. That isn't to say there aren't great things to do and see in Rome, but I got a much better vibe from Florence, and Venice may be the most unique city in the history of humanity.

Yes, it takes a special kind of attitude to love Rome. When I came back from our first trip there, I actually told people I didn't like it. But, I kept talking about it. It grew on me.

And, of course, it has some of the world's greatest art (rivaled only by Florence and Paris), museums, sites, and gelato.

3. Vienna was amazing. I attended two classical music concerts, visited many of the palaces and remnants of the Habsburgs. I would highly recommend going to Vienna.

We also enjoyed Vienna, though it doesn't pack the punch of London, Paris, Rome, or Florence, so I probably wouldn't recommend that for a first trip either.

4. Munich was amazing, it really appealed to me. I love beer halls, beer gardens, the friendly nature of everyone I met.

Munich for me is best summed up by James May on Top Gear (he was comparing it to a car at the time), which is "Munich is a nice city, very clean, great services, wonderful food, but you never think to yourself, I wish I was back in Munich."

That sums it up for me.

5. London is easy if you can't speak German, and can't get by without knowing any Italian or French.

In most of Europe, if you practice the very basic pleasantries (hello, goodbye, please, thank you, perhaps some numbers), you can get by everywhere, especially since virtually everyone speaks at least a little English. When Europeans travel to each other's countries, they use English as a Lingua Franca (even the French ), so we're pretty lucky in that respect.

[Corcaigh]

Love France although the Parisians can be priceless in their reatment of outsiders, but really no worse than New Yorkers.

Don't really get the love of Munich - there are probably 50 cities in Europe I'd spend time in ahead of it.

Big thumbs up for Paris & London, and maybe hit Bruges on a day trip too. Amsterdam for the reasons TB mentioned and a canal boat ride. And a tour of the red light district can be entertaining, but maybe not honeymoon material.

If you pick Italy, you can't go wrong with Rome, Florence & Venice, although southern Italy is an acquired taste for the squeamish.

[Skinz4Life12]

"Southern Italy is an acquired taste for the squeamish." Care to elaborate on that?

Also, can some people tell me about their experiences in Barcelona or Madrid?

[techboy]

Love France although the Parisians can be priceless in their reatment of outsiders, but really no worse than New Yorkers.

Or many Americans, really.

Just imagine how the standard American store clerk would react if somebody came in to their shop and started babbling away in French or German, or more relevant, Spanish, and simply expected the person to deal with it.

[Elessar78]

Love France although the Parisians can be priceless in their reatment of outsiders, but really no worse than New Yorkers.

I love Paris. Parisians are prob a lot like how I felt when I lived in DC. Tourists and visitors are just a pain in the neck. They don't know the local customs. Always mucking up the flow of the Metro. I've found that if you make an effort to speak the language and be polite, that surprisingly they are very very helpful.

Don't really get the love of Munich - there are probably 50 cities in Europe I'd spend time in ahead of it.

Agreed. It's like a massive amorphous city. To be adventurous, I get off at random subway stops just to see what the non-toursity areas are like and it felt like a soviet era city. Big, nondescript concrete blocks.

If you pick Italy, you can't go wrong with Rome, Florence & Venice, although southern Italy is an acquired taste for the squeamish.

Italy is great to visit.

If you're looking for a beautiful city that's easy for Americans: Stockholm.

I didn't care much for Barcelona. But it IS full of things to see. That was also over a decade ago, so lots has changed.

[No_Pressure]

A couple of things here...

Yeah, the French outside of Paris were much more friendly, though I chalked that up to being there with a group of world war two veterans, for whom the French people show the utmost respect and admiration. I rather enjoyed Normandy/Brittany. Beautiful country. It is true, learning to say hello and at least making the attempt at another culture's language goes a long way. I tried to stumble through French and Italian and had the same experience- they quickly switched to English. The Germans did not with me because I spoke it well enough to be understood, though I was clearly much slower in how I spoke and how quickly I could process their lightning fast renditions of what I had been learning in school.

Parisians...eh it wasn't so much anything I was doing to offend anyone, it was just the number of people who had a sour look on their faces as if somebody just farted into their eyes. The Italian lack of recognition for personal space and lack of obedience to rules (because **** those foreigners who are standing in line, let's cut in front of them!) was off-putting in a number of scenarios, but rather hilarious when I witnessed a group of Italians trying to cut in front of some British people at a McDonalds. It was like the members of the Sex Pistols had all shown up to tell off the Italians.

I love Top Gear, and James May is funny, but those guys have plenty of hate for Germany. Every time I go out to a bar in America I wish I was back in Munich, but that's just me. Nothing like being drunk alongside 1,000 other happy people singing Ein Prosit and polishing off another liter. That city was heaven for me.

Oh (this is for the OP), one thing I always do in Europe that not everyone does- dress like you're a European so you blend in and don't look like a moron. In 'merican terms this means dress nicely. I am of German descent with blonde hair and blue eyes so this may have happened to me anyway, but I wore mostly tucked in button down collared shirts or polos, typically with some pants (not necessarily jeans, I tried to stay away from jeans too much). Everyone I met spoke German with me and assumed I was a German. I watched the exact same people I interacted with in that manner on numerous occasions identify the Americans wearing t-shirts, shorts, and looking sloppy by most standards and speak English with them without asking where they were from. It isn't necessary from a "represent our country nicely to the Germans" standpoint, but if you don't enjoy the idea of making yourself a target for anyone who would want to mess with tourists (pickpockets, those gypsy-like people I've observed in every single European city trying to sell tourists flowers and tacky stuff, muggers, etc.) I'd try to see if I could blend a little bit.

Also, try to be prepared a little for the food you're going to encounter (ie learn what fleisch- von schweinen, von kühen, von hühnern means. gemüse, obst, käse, brot, etc.). Every single city has something good, a local specialty, and every culture has things they're good at. German wurst can be a great or terrible experience, you need to know what blut or leber (blood, liver) will do to that specific variety of wurst. Be adventurous, but make sure you have a good time with the local delicacies.

Oh and be prepared to not eat breakfast as you likely know it until you return to America. This is not a complaint of mine, but most of the eating prior to 12 PM across the board in Europe is unsubstantial by our standards, and some people are not ready for that.

[Corcaigh]

"Southern Italy is an acquired taste for the squeamish." Care to elaborate on that?

Targeting of tourists for pick-pocketing and theft of purses and cameras is a significant industry. Just be careful and you'll be fine but for folks who worry about such stuff it can impinge on how relaxing they find it.

Naples, for example, can be dirty. More so than other cities with what seems like an ongoing strike by the garbage collectors.

And the pace of life is often slooooooooow. Great if you want to chill, but not if you are the type who will get stressed if it takes the best part of an hour to get your check in a restaurant.

Also, can some people tell me about their experiences in Barcelona or Madrid?

Since the '92 Olympics, Barcelona has become one of the destinations in Europe for weekend getaways. Lots to do and see, particularly if you like funky architecture.

[Elessar78]

. . . lack of obedience to rules (because **** those foreigners who are standing in line, let's cut in front of them!) was off-putting in a number of scenarios, but rather hilarious when I witnessed a group of Italians trying to cut in front of some British people at a McDonalds. It was like the members of the Sex Pistols had all shown up to tell off the Italians.

It's not really that you were a foreigner. A lot of european countries have diff norms when it comes to queueing up.