Old Redskins questions I've always wondered about.......

[GothSkinsFan]

Actually, Theismann was a very good QB whose career, like Riggo’s was not what it could have been. For instance, JT became a full-time starter in ‘78, his 7th year out of college (2 CFL). That was under the wide-open offense of former LB Jack Pardee (j/k, Pardee was quite conservative). For instance, during the 8-0 opening streak in 1978, in game 3 against STL (the Cards, for you kids), JT threw for 47 net yards (59 actual yds) although 2 throws were for TDs. Heck, he was 5 for 12. 12? And we won 28-10? Well, when Riggo, Mike Thomas, Clarence Harmon, and Reggie Haynes combine for almost 255 yds on the ground, why throw? After all, what did Woody Hayes say about passing? Oh, and btw, our receivers in the late 70’s were horrid – not just horrible, but horrid. Danny Buggs and Ricky Thompson anyone? Seriously, look at Skins WRs from 78 - 80 (yes, Monk came along in ‘80; he was a rookie moving from RB to WR). The WRs all 3 of those years are worse than any year under Snyder. Then, in 1981 when JT finally got some guys to throw to, and a line that could block, he threw for 3,500 yards – that was when 3500 yards was a big deal – you can’t say Art Monk should be viewed the prism of the handcuffed offenses of the 80’s without considering JT playing the “dead ball” era of the 70’s. Prorating out ‘82, he threw for 3,600 yds. In ‘83 and ‘84 he tossed 3,700 and 3,400 respectively. Yeah, he was a very good QB capable of playing great over extended stretches of time. He was a fiery leader and clutch. Watch the ‘82 SB NFL films episode. Guys are praising JT. If you had JT, you didn’t need to worry about the QB position.

[GoSkins0721]

You left out RG lll who is now the best QB you've seen in your 42 years.

---------- Post added February-7th-2013 at 11:39 AM ----------

I didn't realize that Grimm was hurt so much towards the end of his career compared to Joe Jacoby. I'd love to be in the HOF voting committee room and hear some of the arguments against putting Big Joe in the Hall. Being on an offensive line that went to 4 SB's and won 3, with 3 different QB's is something that no player in the HOF today can say. The Hogs made Mark Rypien, Doug Williams and Theisman stars. Jacoby was the rock on that line. I miss hearing/seeing John Madden talk about Jacoby. He loved him.
Dave Butz was another guy that Madden loved who doesn't get the HOF consideration he deserves. Butz was a force at DT for the Skins. Nobody pushed big Butz around and he never got the recognition he deserved.
I would put Jacoby and Butz in the Hall over Grimm.

So true about Butz. He was like a piece of granite in the middle of the DLine.

I saw him on a plane several years after he retired. I was already seated when he came in and started walking down the aisle. He stopped in the row in front of me placing his hand on the headrest at eye level right in front of me. I could see the massive Super Bowl ring on his finger (which was about the size of a corn cob). I guess he saw me staring at his ring and looked down at me and smiled. I told him congratulations and HTTR! He got a great big grin and said "Thanks".

I found out later he was heading to a duck carving show that weekend somewhere on the Eastern Shore.

[pjfootballer]

Taking the above, why do people still class Joe as a franchise QB by virtue of being the first Redskins QB to win a ring?

Even given the different game back them, he was an average to good at best QB. He might of had the duration, but we've not had a franchise caliber QB since Sonny IMHO.

Until now that is.

And the less said about Joe the Flake post playing career the better.

Never have gotten the love for Joe. I respect him and what he did as a player here. But nothing else personally speaking.

Hail.

Franchise quarterbacks are not about gaudy stats. Go back and compare Joe's career stats to Bradshaw, Phil Simms and others and he compares favorably. Of course around the time that Joe's career ended, players like Elway, Marino and Montana were in their prime and putting up HUGE numbers. Joe was a late 70s, early 80s QB. QB's didn't put up huge stats. Also, Joe brought a couple things to the table that you see in our own Griffin now. He brought immense "leadership." He was the one who got the team together to continue practicing during the 82 strike. And he brought "intelligence." Yeah, yeah, I know, everyone hates him and his ego and his know it all attitude. But you know what. He DOES know alot about playing the position of QB. Notre Dame educated, plus when you watch him, he knows his Xs and Os of football very thoroughly. The difinition of a franchise QB has really changed over the years and the roles that they play.

[Bang]

Theismann was the best 'field general" i've ever seen play here.
Joe's stats may not put him in the hall, but his grit, leadership and guts put him in mine.

~Bang

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Theismann was the best 'field general" i've ever seen play here.
Joe's stats may not put him in the hall, but his grit, leadership and guts put him in mine.

~Bang

He's revered in most circles around here and is a Ring of Fame member, so I'm sure he understands his place in Redskin history!

[kingdaddy]

So true about Butz. He was like a piece of granite in the middle of the DLine.

I saw him on a plane several years after he retired. I was already seated when he came in and started walking down the aisle. He stopped in the row in front of me placing his hand on the headrest at eye level right in front of me. I could see the massive Super Bowl ring on his finger (which was about the size of a corn cob). I guess he saw me staring at his ring and looked down at me and smiled. I told him congratulations and HTTR! He got a great big grin and said "Thanks".

Back in 1995 I was in a staying in a hotel in Chambersburg, PA while attending a weekend grad school program at Shippensburg University. I went down to the main lobby looking for the bar and saw a bunch of people in the conference room who were part of a wooden duck carving convention. Dave Butz was one of them. You couldn't miss him. This was 18 years ago. Funny how our stories match up. He must love him some wooden ducks.

I found out later he was heading to a duck carving show that weekend somewhere on the Eastern Shore.

[MCnDaHouse]

I'll add one more thing. Kelvin Bryant was awesome when healthy. The problem was he wasn't built to be an every down back in the NFL. Despite that he had a very good career here. He got hurt in a car accident (If I remember right he was in a car that got rear ended) and after he came back he never was quite the same. He's from Tarboro, NC. I used to work with the local phone company and found that his sister worked there too. She was really nice and gave me an autographed playing card of his.

[Talent Wasted at a Desk]

...loving these trips down memory lane...
no comment, just a thumbs-up

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

The Theismann argument is one I'm never gona' win on a Redskins board with my B&G peers.

So as always, I'll leave it; appreciate others views; and just say I'm grateful for what Joe did in his time here as a player (even if I don't wholly share others opinion on that); but his post playing career and him as a person leaves me with little to no respect for Theismann the guy.

As un-Redskin as that last part may be.

Hail.

[RFK Lives]

Joey T was my first Redskins hero. I cried when he broke his leg, embarrased to say I was 14 at the time but heck I cried during Super Bowl XVIII.

Sure he rubs people the wrong way, you either love him or you hate him but watch the NFL film on the 1982 season regarding the strike. It was Joey T that kept the team together and had them practicing at a park. Running the offense. This is as big a reason as any that the Redskins won the Super Bowl that year.

Throw in his broken teeth and staying in the game or the block he threw against the Giants to spring Joe Washington to score when he became an honorary piglet, the guy was tough as nails. The Hogs said they would go to war with him anytime.

[FuriousD]

Does anyone recall why Kelvin Bryant wasn't used more by Gibbs? I recall him coming out of the USFL, being a pretty big deal (right around the time I can first remember following the team). Looking at his stats I see that he sat out all of 1989 and was brought back in 1990, but only had 24 rushing yards. was he injured or something?

He was brittle was the problem and really didn't have the physique for the position. He was tall and slim, built like a WR and had great hands to boot, but toting the ball at the NFL level was too hard on him.

He had done well in the USFL because they were playing a faster, looser Run & Gun style of game and I think Beatherd had envisioned him as a dangerous change of pace back but ultimately, his body failed him.

[thebluefood]

Question about RFK: for as long as I can remember, the old stadium has been in a bad neighborhood. A *very* bad neighborhood. Yet, fans came out to ball games both night and day. Was the atmosphere in and around RFK dangerous, especially after the '68 riots?

[Airyx]

Technically no.....

Washington will re-sign Monk so he can officially retire as a Redskin.

"Nothing would delight us more than for Art Monk to officially retire as a Redskin," said team President John Kent Cook.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...2/ai_19574895/

He should have played his last (every) game as a Redskin

Does it hurt anyone's feelings that Stephen Davis signed a one day contract with the Panthers so he could retire as a Panther?

[sydshobob]

Does it hurt anyone's feelings that Stephen Davis signed a one day contract with the Panthers so he could retire as a Panther?

Doesn't hurt my feelings but if that's true it's definitely kind of strange since he only played 3 years there (and only 1 of them was any good). 7 years with the Skins (3 over 1,300 yards). Maybe he's just like the rest of us -- doesn't want to be reminded of Norv or Spurrier!

[BleedBNG]

Does it hurt anyone's feelings that Stephen Davis signed a one day contract with the Panthers so he could retire as a Panther?

Not really. He went to the SB with that team, so I can understand that.