Old Redskins questions I've always wondered about.......

[SkinsFTW]

I do remember Rogers having problems with fumbling the ball that season though.

Not just that season but people seem to forget that Giants game Theismann went down and Schroeder pulled out the win that Rogers fumbled, then Riggins fumbled, then Rogers fumbled again, then Riggins fumbled again and finally Gibbs replaced both of them with Keith Griffin. Or maybe it was 3 Rogers fumbles and 1 Riggins but there were several. Joe Morris ran for 3TD's and the Redskins still won the game too. I'm thinking Gibbs wasn't too worried about losing Theismann after that game.

[E-Dog Night]

I have a question that I know about half the answer to, because I remember it from when I was a teenager. Maybe someone can fill me in on the other half.

Back in the day, when the NFL injury rules were a little different (in terms of keeping players on injured reserve etc), Gibbs used to to "hide" people on the injury list as a way of keeping them on the roster for development purposes. Probably the most notable was Rypien, who was developed relentlessly while other QBs were kept on the Redskins roster.

Does anybody remember exactly what the rules were, how they were manipulated, when they were changed, and who else was kept off the roster by the Skins' staff for development.

[stwasm]

I never realized how pathetic Schroeder was.

Ironically, Jay Schroeder is the reason Doug finished Super Bowl XXII after his injury in that game. Doug said the only way he would let Schroeder get a Super Bowl ring is if he gave him one. He never forget the way Schroeder treated him and the latter really had the fans turn against him after that.

[pjfootballer]

You know, sometimes I love these "way back when" threads better than any current team threads.

[No_Pressure]

I talked with Dexter Manley personally. He said that Art Monk, Darrell Green, and Charles Mann were sort of like Gibbs' go to leaders, and that Gibbs had been talking with management about getting him (Dexter) traded out of D.C. because of his problems with drugs. He said Gibbs went to Green and Monk and asked them what they thought, and that those two said hold up let us try to have a heart to heart with Dexter and see where we can get. When they approached Dexter about the issue he became angry, denied his problems, and rejected their suggestions and help. He said it was about a week later Green and Monk went to Gibbs and said "We tried, he won't change or accept our help, its in the best interest of the team to get him as far away from here as possible" it didn't matter that they had made that decision, which he learned about years later- he failed multiple drug tests and was suspended from the NFL.

He also said when he was busted for cocaine in Tampa it was one of his most memorable low points. Apparently he said he was found passed out on the floor of some house with a prostitute and cocaine plastered all over his face.

I met him and had a chance to talk with him when he came to my high school years ago to talk about the dangers of drug addiction. He was in my classroom and I got a chance to chat with him afterwards. He's a very nice guy, very upbeat and positive. I knew back then how he had been illiterate and his college made sure he somehow stayed eligible to play football. He was a poor kid from Houston who had a bad upbringing and was somewhat exploited for his great physical talents and spiraled out of control into the world of drugs. The fact that he's alive, recovered, literate, and successful today is nothing short of an inspirational miracle.

[grhqofb5]

I can vaguely remember Mark Mosely's last game with the Redskins. I seem to remember him missing a couple field goals and at least one extra point, my dad jumped up and said "this guy can't kick anymore." Then he was gone. Does anyone who is a bit older remember what I'm talking about?

[pjfootballer]

I can vaguely remember Mark Mosely's last game with the Redskins. I seem to remember him missing a couple field goals and at least one extra point, my dad jumped up and said "this guy can't kick anymore." Then he was gone. Does anyone who is a bit older remember what I'm talking about?

Found this for you:

"The beginning of the end of Moseley’s tenure in Washington began in the second half of the 1985 season. He missed eight of his last 15 field goal attempts, including five of his last six. Moreover, he lost his long-time holder Theismann on Nov. 18 when the Giants Lawrence Taylor played pick-up-sticks with Theismann’s right leg.

In 1986, Moseley and his new holder, quarterback Jay Schroeder, failed to find a successful rhythm. In Texas for the Dallas game on Oct. 12, Moseley missed his field goal and extra point attempts. When the Redskins sent out punter Steve Cox to try a long field goal, Moseley sagged. “I felt that I was no longer on the football team,” he said later."

The ‘Skins released Moseley the following week, but his vacation was short-lived. Cleveland kicker Matt Bahr hurt his knee on Nov. 23, and the Browns quickly signed Moseley.

[Darth Tater]

I have a question that I know about half the answer to, because I remember it from when I was a teenager. Maybe someone can fill me in on the other half.

Back in the day, when the NFL injury rules were a little different (in terms of keeping players on injured reserve etc), Gibbs used to to "hide" people on the injury list as a way of keeping them on the roster for development purposes. Probably the most notable was Rypien, who was developed relentlessly while other QBs were kept on the Redskins roster.

Does anybody remember exactly what the rules were, how they were manipulated, when they were changed, and who else was kept off the roster by the Skins' staff for development.

The manipulation was that there was incentive to put a guy on IR whether the injury was significant or not or even that there was one. The guys on IR could practice with the team so you could use it to stash developmental guys or extend your practice roster (and if you go back even a few more years, you could reactivate a few from the IR). Now, since guys on IR cannot practice with the team (though they can go to meetings but this is voluntary), you are only going to put a guy on IR if you really think he's done. This was done to prevent wealthier teams from stockpiling all the good players. With the advent of the cap and better FA, I don't see this as much of a problem anymore (in fact, because of these, you may be better off just to eliminate roster limits).

[MartinC]

The manipulation was that there was incentive to put a guy on IR whether the injury was significant or not or even that there was one. The guys on IR could practice with the team so you could use it to stash developmental guys or extend your practice roster (and if you go back even a few more years, you could reactivate a few from the IR). Now, since guys on IR cannot practice with the team (though they can go to meetings but this is voluntary), you are only going to put a guy on IR if you really think he's done. This was done to prevent wealthier teams from stockpiling all the good players. With the advent of the cap and better FA, I don't see this as much of a problem anymore (in fact, because of these, you may be better off just to eliminate roster limits).

There was no practice squad back then either so you had the annual ritual of the last preseason game in which a couple of promising rookies or young players the team wanted to keep around to develop but were not going to make the roster went down (in installments normally) 'injured' - normally with minimal or no contact and pretty vague diagnosis of the actual problem afterwards.

Everyone did it but Gibbs was a master at it.

[PeterMP]

That's your heart talking. Gibbs knew what he was doing. Monk's career was on the downside and it was time to move on to younger legs. Fans have a hard time letting go of players. But in the end, it is a business. You have to watch out for the future of the team. That is how the Redskins stayed competitive for over ten years and won three Super Bowls with three different QBs and running backs.

That is also why Dan Snyder and Vinnie Cerrato had crappy teams for over ten years. Always looking at the now and not the future.

It was Turner that let Monk go.

Gibbs retired in 1993. One year with Pettibone and then Turner

Monk signed with the Jets in 1994.

[FuriousD]

I can vaguely remember Mark Mosely's last game with the Redskins. I seem to remember him missing a couple field goals and at least one extra point, my dad jumped up and said "this guy can't kick anymore." Then he was gone. Does anyone who is a bit older remember what I'm talking about?

I do remember I wasn't sorry to see him go. I HATED that kicking style and was surprised when anything went through the uprights. I grew up on soccer and it just looked so damn awkward. Blech!

Ironically, the only real piece of Redskins memoribilia I have is an autographed, water color Mosley did of him and Theismann "in the act". I even have one he painted of them kicking a field goal!

It's in a closet somewhere () ... shame on me I suppose.

[mojo]

The real reason we lost was the fact our secondary was atrocious, we couldn't stop the pass to save our life, I remember thinking that Cliff Branch was just going to kill us, as good as we were against the run that year we were equally bad against the pass, we just outscored everyone in route to setting the NFL record for points that season.

I agree, the nickname for our secondary was the "bomb squad" due to it's awful play. If I remember correctly, Cliff Branch scored a 99 yd TD against us that year during the regular season game which we barely won. Helluva a game...I've still got the SI cover after that game with Joe Washington on it and the headline "Make way for the Skins"

[MartinC]

I agree, the nickname for our secondary was the "bomb squad" due to it's awful play. If I remember correctly, Cliff Branch scored a 99 yd TD against us that year during the regular season game which we barely won. Helluva a game...I've still got the SI cover after that game with Joe Washington on it and the headline "Make way for the Skins"

The nickname was the "Pearl Harbor Crew". It was given by the secondary to themselves because they got bombed so often ......

[roanoker]

I talked with Dexter Manley personally. He said that Art Monk, Darrell Green, and Charles Mann were sort of like Gibbs' go to leaders, and that Gibbs had been talking with management about getting him (Dexter) traded out of D.C. because of his problems with drugs. He said Gibbs went to Green and Monk and asked them what they thought, and that those two said hold up let us try to have a heart to heart with Dexter and see where we can get. When they approached Dexter about the issue he became angry, denied his problems, and rejected their suggestions and help. He said it was about a week later Green and Monk went to Gibbs and said "We tried, he won't change or accept our help, its in the best interest of the team to get him as far away from here as possible" it didn't matter that they had made that decision, which he learned about years later- he failed multiple drug tests and was suspended from the NFL.

He also said when he was busted for cocaine in Tampa it was one of his most memorable low points. Apparently he said he was found passed out on the floor of some house with a prostitute and cocaine plastered all over his face.

I met him and had a chance to talk with him when he came to my high school years ago to talk about the dangers of drug addiction. He was in my classroom and I got a chance to chat with him afterwards. He's a very nice guy, very upbeat and positive. I knew back then how he had been illiterate and his college made sure he somehow stayed eligible to play football. He was a poor kid from Houston who had a bad upbringing and was somewhat exploited for his great physical talents and spiraled out of control into the world of drugs. The fact that he's alive, recovered, literate, and successful today is nothing short of an inspirational miracle.

Thanks for the story. This is why I appreciate this message board and its posters. I learn something new about the team and its players everyday. HTTR.

[Park City Skins]

The Pearl Harbor Crew. Sigh. Curtis Jordan had the ability to go from 3rd,(didn't have a 4th or 5th),to 1st gear faster than anyone I had ever seen. Even faster when the ball was caught. Heck Lynn Dickey even had a big night against them.