Yahoo/AP: Tough ID laws could block thousands of 2012 votes

[greenspandan]

What? Do they just let anyone walk in and vote where you go?

your statement was inherently meaningless. paraphrasing, you said: "as long as they can follow whatever procedure is in place, that's fine". the "whatever procedure" is exactly what this debate is about. the procedures the GOP has been pushing are not trivial for a significant chunk of real live valid legal american citizens.

---------- Post added November-5th-2012 at 12:47 PM ----------

What? Do they just let anyone walk in and vote where you go?

your statement was inherently meaningless. paraphrasing, you said: "as long as they can follow whatever procedure is in place, that's fine". the "whatever procedure" is exactly what this debate is about. the procedures the GOP has been pushing are not trivial for a significant chunk of real live valid legal american citizens.

[Larry]

Which part?

Just a guess, but I'm assuming he's referring to the part where you say people without ID should be allowed to vote, as long as they comply with whatever procedures you have to when you go to vote.

(I suspect that his confusion is due to the fact that "You mush have this particular form of ID that we demand" is one of those "whatever procedures you have to when you go to vote" things.)

But it's just a thought.

[Predicto]

Which part?

We are talking about voter ID laws. I'm trying to figure out if what you said was intended to support or oppose such laws.

[visionary]

as a white dude in the suburbs who likes to drive around and go out and do stuff it would certainly be near impossible for me to function, but hey i am not the only valid type of american!

for older or younger persons in a different type of lifestyle, perhaps dependent on others, for example, or living at home or with their children after retirement, it would be pretty low priority to renew one's drivers license (if you don't drive) or update it to your latest address after a move (not a crime). voting is a RIGHT, not a PRIVILEGE. The burdon is on the state to prove it deserves to be taken away from someone. failure to keep one's license to drive up to date is NOT sufficient "crime" (it's not a crime) to revoke that right.

Well I don't drive, but I still need an id to do a lot of things.
But again I'm not saying people without ids should be banned.
Although I think in MD they can ask people to show ids if they are first time voters.
Probably due to some evil Republican plot, I assume.

---------- Post added November-5th-2012 at 12:52 PM ----------

Just a guess, but I'm assuming he's referring to the part where you say people without ID should be allowed to vote, as long as they comply with whatever procedures you have to when you go to vote.

(I suspect that his confusion is due to the fact that "You mush have this particular form of ID that we demand" is one of those "whatever procedures you have to when you go to vote" things.)

But it's just a thought.

I mean in general. I don't know about particular states or their laws.
But in general when you vote you need to follow some procedure or another that verifies that you voted.

[oldskoolskins]

what the ****? if you don't have an id you should be deported? that is straight up absurd.

i mean i know you're mainly thinking of brown people, but there are plenty of real americans, white ones even, who don't happen to own a valid id.

Why does everything have to be about race? I find it hard to believe that there are people in this country with absolutley no form of ID, ie; green card, passport, drivers license, birth certificate, bank statement, personal check, student ID, fishing license, hunting license the list goes on, but Liberals everywhere would like me to believe that a large percentage of people have no form of ID..

[visionary]

We are talking about voter ID laws. I'm trying to figure out if what you said was intended to support or oppose such laws.

I don't think voter id laws are necessary.
I also don't think they're as big a problem as some on here seem to.
Neither in my opinion is voter fraud in the US these days.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Not to be paranoid but considering Husted is involved.......




Click on the link to read the rest.

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=9698

Why Was Uncertified 'Experimental' Software Installed on ES&S Tabulation Systems in 39 OH Counties Just Days Before Presidential Election?


Last week, Bob Fitrakis and Gerry Bello at FreePress.org reported an important story concerning what they described as "uncertified 'experimental' software patches" being installed at the last minute on electronic vote tabulation systems in 39 Ohio counties.

The story included a copy of the contract [PDF] between Republican Ohio Sec. of State Jon Husted's office and ES&S, the nation's largest e-voting system manufacturer, for a new, last minute piece of software created to the custom specifications of the Sec. of State. The contract itself describes the software as "High-level enhancements to ES&S' election reporting software that extend beyond the current features and functionality of the software to facilitate a custom-developed State Election Results Reporting File."

A subsequent story at The Free Press the following day included text said to be from a November 1 memo sent from the OH SoS Election Counsel Brandi Laser Seske to a number of state election officials confirming the use of the new, uncertified software on Ohio's tabulator systems. The memo claims that "its function is to aid in the reporting of results" by converting them "into a format that can be read by the Secretary of State's election night reporting system."

On Friday evening, at Huffington Post, journalist Art Levine followed up with a piece that, among other things, advanced the story by breaking the news that Fitrakis and his attorney Cliff Arnebeck were filing a lawsuit for an immediate injunction against Husted and ES&S to "halt the use of secretly installed, unauthorized 'experimental' software in 39 counties' tabulators". Levine also reported that Arnebeck had referred the matter to the Cincinnati FBI for criminal investigation of what the Ohio attorney describes as "a flagrant violation of the law."

"Before you add new software, you need approval of a state board," says Arnebeck. "They are installing an uncertified, suspect software patch that interfaces between the county's vote tabulation equipment and state tabulators." Arnebeck's alarm is understandable.

[Predicto]

Apparently, the way Husted has written the rules, voters can't even use US passports as ID at the polling place.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/171011...uld-swing-ohio

[Larry]

Apparently, the way Husted has written the rules, voters can't even use US passports as ID at the polling place.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/171011...uld-swing-ohio

Yeah, I noticed that, earlier.

I assume that somebody did a study, and concluded that banning passports helped the GOP.

Nothing to support that. But I can't think of another reason.

But, while a passport isn't good enough, a bank statement or a cable bill is. (Or, of course, military ID.)

---------- Post added November-5th-2012 at 03:55 PM ----------

Why does everything have to be about race? I find it hard to believe that there are people in this country with absolutley no form of ID, ie; green card, passport, drivers license, birth certificate, bank statement, personal check, student ID, fishing license, hunting license the list goes on, but Liberals everywhere would like me to believe that a large percentage of people have no form of ID..

Well, you may find it hard to believe, but the League of Women Voters found all kinds of people who don't.

Who don't have the kind of ID which the laws demand.

See, for example, there's a reason why military ID is acceptable, but student ID isn't.

(It's because people with military ID tend to vote Republican, but people with student ID tend to vote Democrat.)

[skinsmarydu]

Apparently, the way Husted has written the rules, voters can't even use US passports as ID at the polling place.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/171011...uld-swing-ohio

I swear, he was on MSNBC, with Chris Jansing earlier, saying he had made things easier to vote in Ohio. She bashed him a few times, but she's no Martin, or Ed, or Rachel. Jansing even brought up his SCOTUS battle trying to keep the last 3 days of early voting eliminated. It was weird, he couldn't back up what he'd done, but kept flashing the papers that the order was rescinded. Just long enough of a battle to keep a bunch of people from being able to vote.

[skinsfan_1215]

No One in America Should Have to Wait 7 Hours to Vote

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...BYrCY.facebook

No matter who wins the presidential race, no matter which party controls Congress, can we at least agree as reasonable adults that when it comes to voting itself the election of 2012 is a national disgrace? We ask our sons and daughters, our husbands and wives, to give their lives abroad for noble concepts like "freedom" and "democracy." And yet we are content as a nation, and as a people, to tolerate another cycle of election rules that require our fellow citizens to sacrifice a measure of basic human dignity simply to exercise their right to vote.

For example, what happened this weekend in Florida is simply unacceptable. According to a local election official interviewed by CBS News' Phil Hirschkorn, the last "early voter" in line for Saturday's truncated early voting in Palm Beach County finally got to cast a ballot at 2:30 a.m Sunday morning, which means that voter waited in line for more than seven hours. In Miami, another traditional Democratic stronghold, the wait was said to be nearly as long. On Sunday, voters all over the state were begging judges and county officials for more time to vote.

This is happening not because of a natural disaster or breakdown in machinery. It is happening by partisan design. Alarmed by the strong Democratic turnout in early voting in 2008, Republican lawmakers, including Governor Rick Scott, reduced the number of early voting days from 14 to eight. When the restrictions were challenged in federal court under the Voting Rights Act, a three-judge panel said they would have a discriminatory impact upon minority voters. But only five of the state's 67 counties are covered by the federal civil rights law.

[elkabong82]

Why does everything have to be about race? I find it hard to believe that there are people in this country with absolutley no form of ID, ie; green card, passport, drivers license, birth certificate, bank statement, personal check, student ID, fishing license, hunting license the list goes on, but Liberals everywhere would like me to believe that a large percentage of people have no form of ID..

Nobody is claiming the number of people effected by these ID laws is a staggering amount. What they are factually claiming is that the number of people effected is far, far greater than the very, very small number of voter fraud cases.

And the "how can all fraud be known?" argument presented by some is bogus, because if a vote is stolen then it means someone else can't vote, which means they'll raise a fuss over it. In reality, voter fraud would have to occur on a massive scale to affect any significant change, and the interest to do so isn't there. Basically out of a paranoid and unsubstantiated fear that people are voting who shouldn't be, laws are being passed which prevent or obstruct citizens from voting. The voter ID laws are completely unnecessary and seek to fix a problem which is virtually non-existent, but seem to have a "hidden" intent of taking away votes from liberal-leaning populaces, hence the heavy majority of proposals for these laws have come from Republicans. So much for loving America when you seek to complicate the voting process for many Americans, conveniently many of whom are not on "their side," to try and solve a problem which really doesn't need solving.

[skinsfan_1215]

America's voting system is a disgrace

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/05/opinio...html?hpt=hp_c1

When the polls close in most other democracies, the results are known almost instantly. Ballots are usually counted accurately and rapidly, and nobody disputes the result. Complaints of voter fraud are rare; complaints of voter suppression are rarer still.

The kind of battle we are seeing in Florida -- where Democrats and Republicans will go to court over whether early voting should span 14 days or eight -- simply does not happen in Germany, Canada, Britain or France. The ballot uncertainty that convulsed the nation after Florida's vote in 2000 could not happen in Mexico or Brazil.

Almost everywhere else, elections are run by impartial voting agencies. In France, elections are the responsibility of the Ministry of the Interior, which establishes places and hours of voting, prints ballots (France still uses paper) and counts the votes. In Germany, an independent federal returning officer oversees a complex state and federal voting system. In Canada, federal elections are managed by a specialized agency, Elections Canada. Mexico, emerging from a sad history of electoral manipulation, created in the 1990s a respected independent agency, the Federal Electoral Institute. Brazil has nationwide electronic voting, producing instantaneous, uncontested results.

In no other country, including federal systems such as Germany, Canada and Australia, does the citizen's opportunity to vote depend on the affluence and competence of his or her local government.

In every other democracy, the vote is the means by which the people choose between the competing political parties -- not one more weapon by which the parties compete.

The United States is an exceptional nation, but it is not always exceptional for good. The American voting system too is an exception: It is the most error-prone, the most susceptible to fraud, the most vulnerable to unfairness and one of the least technologically sophisticated on earth. After the 2000 fiasco, Americans resolved to do better. Isn't it past time to make good on that resolution?

[elkabong82]

No One in America Should Have to Wait 7 Hours to Vote

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...BYrCY.facebook

I wonder how many got frustrated and left. Just sickening. The party that claims to love small gov't and hate bureaucracy not only uses, but creates it themselves to suit their own needs. Hypocrites. No defense for what they did, it was clearly intentional. I really don't understand how some, and I know they will, can turn a blind eye to their own party pulling stunts like these. It is a sneaky way of attempting to rig an election and spits in the face of what a democracy is supposed to stand for. Reminds of the saying "be wary of those who pray loudest," though in this case it's "be wary of those who claim to be real Americans the loudest."

[greenspandan]

Why does everything have to be about race? I find it hard to believe that there are people in this country with absolutley no form of ID, ie; green card, passport, drivers license, birth certificate, bank statement, personal check, student ID, fishing license, hunting license the list goes on, but Liberals everywhere would like me to believe that a large percentage of people have no form of ID..

we're talking about photo id, the thing being pushed by republicans as a requirement to vote. that elminates most of the items on your list. and yes, there are tons of people who are real americans who don't have a state-issued current photo id. if there weren't, the GOP wouldn't be pushing these laws, and the left wouldn't be fighting them.