The Fiscal Cliff thread.

[Larry]

Link.

Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.) on Monday announced that Democrats are willing to allow a slew of tax cuts and spending provisions to expire if Republicans refuse to raise taxes on the wealthy, potentially inching the country off a "fiscal cliff."

"If we can't get a good deal, a balanced deal, that calls on the wealthy to pay their fair share, then I will absolutely continue this debate into 2013, rather than lock in a long-term deal this year that throws middle-class families under the bus," Murray, a budget committee member and former co-chair of the debt supercommittee, said at a Brookings Institution discussion of the "fiscal cliff."

"Fiscal cliff" is a reference to the potential crisis faced by the government at the end of this year when the Bush tax cuts and other tax and spending provisions amounting to an estimated $600 billion are set to expire.

Oh, goody. That's just what this issue needs. Two Parties willing to use the threat of economic catastrophe as a bargaining ploy.

Way to go, Congress.

(Not that I expected any better, of course.)

[HeluCopter29]

Well I have wanted the Democrats to show some backbone for a while.....

[twa]

Not going with the T word yet?

[SkinsHokieFan]

What I don't understand is why Dems didn't do this back in 2010?

Really the Dems have a key advantage here. They have to do NOTHING and taxes go up across the board.

They can just kill the clock

[AsburySkinsFan]

We have to increase tax revenue somewhere and since corporations aren't bringing the jobs back.....something has to give.

[Larry]

Well I have wanted the Democrats to show some backbone for a while.....

So have I. But not this way.

IMO, the right way to play this issue is: Introduce a bill that will extend the Bush tax cuts for the "bottom 95%". With nothing else attached to it.

And make the Republicans publicly filibuster it.

(Heck, it's not like Congress can't do that, because it would interfere with all the important things that they're accomplishing. )

[HeluCopter29]

We have to increase tax revenue somewhere and since corporations aren't bringing the jobs back.....something has to give.

True. But you would hope that it wouldn't come at the expense of raising taxes on middle class and upper class families. Just upper class.

[Thiebear]

Considering nobody thinks taxes going up is Good for the economy and capable of taking us to negative to zero percent just for the top percent.
I would guess it would crush this already frustrating year if they just let it all happen at once.

[HeluCopter29]

So have I. But not this way.

IMO, the right way to play this issue is: Introduce a bill that will extend the Bush tax cuts for the "bottom 95%". With nothing else attached to it.

And make the Republicans publicly filibuster it.

(Heck, it's not like Congress can't do that, because it would interfere with all the important things that they're accomplishing. )

I couldn't agree more. But I guess there's the other part of me that says well, at least you/re starting to look like a functional political machine. Because their main problem has been that they're going up a masterful political machine. So for them to show that they actually are willing to make a political "powerplay" such as this, is a nice sigh of relief.

[Larry]

Not going with the T word yet?

Yes. Yes I will.

This "I'm going to harm the country if I don't get my way" is terrorism.

You can argue about who did it first, or who used which phrasing, or whatnot.

But no matter how you try to spin it, two wrongs don't make a right.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Again the Democrats don't have to do a thing.

Taxes are scheduled to go up across the board and on SSI January 1st, 2013.

Just run the ball and then down it in November and December. Politically speaking, if I am Harry Reid I close the Senate come December 1st unless Republicans meet all of my demands.

Needless to say, when I lose 450 dollars every 2 weeks I am going to be extremely unhappy.

[AsburySkinsFan]

True. But you would hope that it wouldn't come at the expense of raising taxes on middle class and upper class families. Just upper class.

Sooner or later the Bush era cuts have to end. How we legitimized those cuts while fighting two wars is still the stupidest thing we've done in a LONG time.

[zoony]

What I don't understand is why Dems didn't do this back in 2010?

Really the Dems have a key advantage here. They have to do NOTHING and taxes go up across the board.

They can just kill the clock

this is my take as well

oddly, if congress does nothing, we'll be in better shape fiscally. of course, this means congress will do something

[Larry]

Considering nobody thinks taxes going up is Good for the economy and capable of taking us to negative to zero percent just for the top percent.
I would guess it would crush this already frustrating year if they just let it all happen at once.

Having trouble grasping your first sentence. But I think I agree with your second.

Tax increases are bad for the economy. Always.
Spending cuts are bad for the economy. Always.

And raising taxes and cutting spending, all at once, in an economy as fragile as this one? That's even worse than usual.

But, it has to be done, eventually.

If I were in charge, my first action would be to extend the Bush Tax Cuts, on the "bottom 95%", for one year. (In fact, if I could somehow pass a rule saying that, one year from now, they can't be extended except by a 60% vote, in both houses? I'd do that.)

(And, I wonder if maybe extending the payroll tax cut might not have a bigger effect on the economy. I could certainly see that argument.)

[PokerPacker]

Sure would suck if we actually cut spending to reasonable measures, wouldn't it? (not aimed at any one party; aimed at everyone)