The Fiscal Cliff thread.

[twa]

They accept gratuities

[Hersh]

They accept gratuities

You're right, they should have passed a bill to raise significantly more money over the next ten years. Both sides are doing such a disservice to our country with their spineless behavior.

[Prosperity]

I hate congress so much

[Stadium-Armory]

Congress is only a reflection of their constituents. Hate the dumbasses that put them there.

[Jumbo]

Congress is only a reflection of their constituents. Hate the dumbasses that put them there.

If we follow the logic (and actually, I do) and include every single member of congress (appropriate), it effectively means that everyone that voted democrat, republican, or other, is a dumbass.

The only thing I would add is the people who could have voted but didn't are also dumbasses.

Now that we have identified the problem, I suggest that solving it is a fantasy.

So drink up, Shriners!

[Prosperity]

Congress is only a reflection of their constituents. Hate the dumbasses that put them there.

Luckily I have enough hate in my heart for both

[Toe Jam]

Boehner to Reid: "Go **** yourself."

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...snt-85663.html

Here's the most important part:

But the failure to address several big issues sets up another fiscal showdown in late February, when the two-month delay in the sequester coincides with the deadline to raise the country’s $16.4 trillion debt limit.

The pact also does little to reduce trillion-dollar-plus deficits, shore up entitlement programs, overhaul the tax code or stimulate the U.S. economy — the casualty of a polarized political culture that scorns compromise.

[JMS]

You're right, they should have passed a bill to raise significantly more money over the next ten years. Both sides are doing such a disservice to our country with their spineless behavior.

Obama has decreased the deficite to gdp ratio about 30% over his first 4 years in office... That's with the economy in the toilet. He's done it with reducing the deficit from about 1.4 trillion to 1 trillion holding new spending down and growing the economy by 2-3%.... Remember he inherited a shrinking economy. He asked for very modest tax increases on the what top half of one percent... The folks like Mitt Romney who were paying only about what 12.9% taxes and now will endure a tax rate closer to 15%?

The democrats wanted the tad hike as a separate piece of business from the cuts which are coming... Again modest cuts relative to the deficit... Just like Bill Clinton did... and Newt Gingrich .... They didn't balance the budget over night they took small responsible steps and over 8 years it occurred... mostly due to economic growth... With still unemployment so high we have a lot of room to grow..

What kills me is if the republicans always knew they would cave rather than stick to their guns, put the economy back into a recession, and end their political viability as a national party.... Why didn't they do it earlier? It's all this uncertainty which is killing us... If they were going to make a deal and accept the democrats terms as they did... why not do it in the beginning of december instead of creating all this uncertainty which is really hurting our economy and job hiring.

[Renegade7]

Good they got something done, late, ugly, whatever. My question, because I'm having trouble finding it, is what's the federal budget deficit for this year now? I imagine it's gone down because taxes went up, but by how much? I've seen that it was we were $900 billion in the red before this deal, where are we at now???

[JMS]

You're right, they should have passed a bill to raise significantly more money over the next ten years. Both sides are doing such a disservice to our country with their spineless behavior.

Obama has decreased the deficite to gdp ratio about 30% over his first 4 years in office... That's with the economy in the toilet. He's done it with reducing the deficit from about 1.4 trillion to 1 trillion holding new spending down and growing the economy by 2-3%.... Remember he inherited a shrinking economy. He asked for very modest tax increases on the what top half of one percent... The folks like Mitt Romney who were paying only about what 12.9% taxes and now will endure a tax rate closer to 15%?

The democrats wanted the tad hike as a separate piece of business from the cuts which are coming... Again modest cuts relative to the deficit... Just like Bill Clinton did... and Newt Gingrich .... They didn't balance the budget over night they took small responsible steps and over 8 years it occurred... mostly due to economic growth... With still unemployment so high we have a lot of room to grow..

What kills me is if the republicans always knew they would cave rather than stick to their guns, put the economy back into a recession, and end their political viability as a national party.... Why didn't they do it earlier? It's all this uncertainty which is killing us... If they were going to make a deal and accept the democrats terms as they did... why not do it in the beginning of december instead of creating all this uncertainty which is really hurting our economy and job hiring.

[Larry]

They accept gratuities

You're right. The minuscule tax increase which the Republicans were willing to stop filibustering is nowhere near enough to completely eliminate the deficit.

---------- Post added January-2nd-2013 at 06:49 AM ----------

The House late Tuesday gave final approval to a Senate-backed bill that will let taxes rise for the richest Americans, shield the middle class from tax hikes and extend emergency unemployment benefits, ending Washington’s long drama over the “fiscal cliff.”.

This is a problem I have with the narrative on this issue.

"Shield the middle class from tax hikes" was never even on the table. The only thing being fought over was the republican threat to hit the lower 97% with TWO tax hikes, unless the Dems agreed to not hit the too 2% with ANY.

[Thiebear]

Revenues, as a percentage of GDP, are the lowest they've been since WW2.
Funny, the Democrats, including Obama, actually proposed slowing the growth of entitlement spending. A few years back.
Remember the Republican reaction? I do. It was "death panels!" and "I don't want my child to be begging the government not to kill him!"
But yeah, it sucks the way the Democrats have successfully brainwashed people into believing things that aren't true.
---------- Post added January-1st-2013 at 09:16 PM ----------

Tax cuts don't add to the deficit.
---------- Post added January-1st-2013 at 09:19 PM ----------

Yes, the total debt has been going steadily going up, ever since that big change in the early 80's. (See, that's what your chart says. That's when the debt line suddenly changed.)

?

Yeah: old people cost money: http://www.infowars.com/democrats-cr...ing-obama-win/
In September, a top Democrat strategist, Steven Rattner, said rationing under Obamacare is inevitable. “We need death panels,” he wrote for the New York Times. “Well, maybe not death panels, exactly, but unless we start allocating health care resources more prudently — rationing, by its proper name — the exploding cost of Medicare will swamp the federal budget.”

and my chart on Debt to GDP: Its getting worse per Year Larry. It has be be fixed as the debt is growing exponentially and the GDP is flatlined.
Helping old people die should fix it though.

http://www.heritage.org/federalbudge...ending-revenue

[Larry]

?

Yeah: old people cost money: http://www.infowars.com/democrats-cr...ing-obama-win/
In September, a top Democrat strategist, Steven Rattner, said rationing under Obamacare is inevitable. “We need death panels,” he wrote for the New York Times. “Well, maybe not death panels, exactly, but unless we start allocating health care resources more prudently — rationing, by its proper name — the exploding cost of Medicare will swamp the federal budget.”

and my chart on Debt to GDP: Its getting worse per Year Larry. It has be be fixed as the debt is growing exponentially and the GDP is flatlined.
Helping old people die should fix it though.

http://www.heritage.org/federalbudge...ending-revenue

Kinda missing your point, there. (Unless your point was to throw out some slogans, without making a point.)

If your point was to agree with me that yes, the Democrats actually did propose creating a body, tasked with examining Medicare and Medicaid, and proposing ways of cutting spending, by looking at costs and benefits of various things the government pays for, and that yes, the Republicans responded with "death panels" and "rationing", then I guess I should thank you for admitting that I was correct, but I already knew I was correct.

If your point was to try to respond to me pointing out that the chart you posted very clearly shows the trend on the debt taking a profound change in the early 80s, which is continuing to today, by claiming that the debt began exploding in the 80s because of old people and Obamacare, then well, I really wish you'd come out and state that position, so everybody can laugh at you.

[Stadium-Armory]

If we follow the logic (and actually, I do) and include every single member of congress (appropriate), it effectively means that everyone that voted democrat, republican, or other, is a dumbass.

The only thing I would add is the people who could have voted but didn't are also dumbasses.

Now that we have identified the problem, I suggest that solving it is a fantasy.

So drink up, Shriners!

I suggest that the problem is voters who demand that their representation doesn't compromise. Its no wonder the congress people arrive in Washington ready to throw a fit for their way or the highway. If people demanded a different type of representation they would get it.

[alexey]

I suggest that the problem is voters who demand that their representation doesn't compromise. Its no wonder the congress people arrive in Washington ready to throw a fit for their way or the highway. If people demanded a different type of representation they would get it.

I see the problem in politics and elections increasingly turning into contests in marketing rather than discussion of issues and competing policies.

(yes it is always been this way, to a degree, but recent advances in media seem to have made it worse)


It is difficult to engage in a sensible discussion about complex matters when the next guy can jump on you with some sound bites and beat you in the next election.