If the Skins go 6-10 or worse, Shanny SHOULD be on the chopping block

[kleese]

Depends on the reason(s) we go 3-13.

I think it would be impossible for Shanny's hand picked players to do well and still go 3-13.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Then we simply disagree GHH. If you are telling me that 3-13 won't raise your eyebrows and be cause for major concern, then we simply disagree.

6-10 you original had it at, or worse.

I have us winning 5 or 6 games, and I foresee I'll be very happy with the progress therein.

On this, we simply disagree.

Hail.

[NLC1054]

No one wants to put too much pressure on RG3 or ask too much of him this year--- I don't either. But in my opinion, there is enough around him where he should have more than just a fleeting moment or two. I want to see him be the reason we win some games--- maybe not against the Steelers or Ravens, but perhaps against some of the more average teams on the schedule.

The NFL doesn't operate the way it used to. The clock ticks faster now. I keep hearing people say we are 2-3 years away from being good... Well, if that is the case, Shanny won't be here to see it. 6-7 year rebuilding projects don't fly in the NFL anymore.

Ultimately, I do not view this season as much of a developmental one as others do. They need to do some winning.

Your premise is flawed because you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You don't want to put pressure on RG3, but you do, because you don't think this is a developmental season, despite having a rookie quarterback. You try to hedge your bets by projecting us under .500, but talk about how much we need to win. The title of the thread is "Shanny SHOULD" be on the chopping block, and then it's "well I'm not saying he should really be on the chopping block but it would raise red flags with me." You project 7-9, but you don't want to be toast by Halloween.

I don't think anyone has said we're 2-3 years from being good. I think last year we said we were 2-3 years from being good, which means this year we're about 1-2 from being good. Probably one year and one more draft and free agency period is my guess.

You can't have it both ways.

[mudhog]

Gotta love replies that start with "didn't read the op"

Which also means you didn't read the part where I said I would NOT automatically fire the staff based on our record; however, that a very bad year this season would be a red flag to me.

Kleese, I have read your threads before. You have always struck me as a reasonable dude. Allow me to apologize for being rude if I was. I saw the thread title and immediately reacted to type my retort.
Give it time bro. Dissention and animosity are a bad pill right now. stick with the plan. For Christ's sake, we finally have one. Shanny is a student of the game. He is finally getting the chance to develop an offense which might be unstoppable.
After watching Alex Gibbs the other night, do his 5hrs on zone blocking/zone read offense, I can really see that we are right on the cusp of something extraordinary. If we were to stop or reverse course now, it would be ruinous.
Hail

[FuriousD]

Consistent only works if you are making consistent progress. I'm not sure you can sell me on the progress part if the Skins go 4-12.

Ultimately wins is what it all boils down to but it's still very early days and progress is not always measured in wins. We have come a long way in a short period of time but the rebuild is ongoing and the truth is we really do need a couple more drafts and FA signings. We need more depth and better starting talent at key positions in the O-line, defensive backfield and possibly TE too.

It really is coming together but it's going to take a little more time. I think the single worst thing we could do right now is to start drawing lines in the sand.

[IrepDC]

It's like people ignore the fact that other teams in the NFL are trying to improve every year too. Yes, we have had three years to improve, but three years is not long enough to close the gap that other teams had ahead of us. And it's not like we haven't had obstacles along the way i.e. $36 million cap taken.

Would the OP honestly think starting all over, with a new coach and new scheme in Griffin's second year, would put us in a better situation? We did that with Campbell every year. Manning, Rodgers, Brady, Brees have been in the same systems for 5-10 years. That's what we want. Follow the mold and be patient.

[C26 Run]

Your last sentence is my major fear and it's why I want to do at least a little winning now. I agree that going with RG3 likely buys him more time and leeway with both fans and media--- and probably even Snyder. But he has been building this team in his mold now for two years and if I year four we are still looking at double-digit losses, I think that's a major, major problem.

It would be a major problem, I agree with that. But there are other glaring weaknesses on our team starting with the O-line. Building an effective O-line takes time. We don't have a first round pick for the next two seasons, so how are we going to build a good young O-line? Another weakness to address in the draft in the future is the defensive secondary and ILB.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Shanny bought himself a year (2013) definitely with RG3. Had we brought in Manning or Flynn and sucked this year then yeah he might be screwed.

But everyone who says we are 3 years away with Shanny are crazy. He damn sure shouldn't get that long if the team keep winning under 5 games

[Painkiller]

I think it would be impossible for Shanny's hand picked players to do well and still go 3-13.

There are more factors than that at play here though, it's not just about Shanny's hand-picked players. Injuries happen. Not every position has been able to be fully addressed either. Our o-line and the secondary could really prove to be problematic for the the team this year, and it's not like they haven't been addressed. Clearly, more work was to be done if we hadn't had our cap space stolen from us. (and I don't bring that up to derail the thread. I'm still incredibly angry about that whole deal, and I believe that it will play a major factor (by the design of Mara) in stunting our growth as a team over the next two years.)

[kleese]

Your premise is flawed because you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You don't want to put pressure on RG3, but you do, because you don't think this is a developmental season, despite having a rookie quarterback. You try to hedge your bets by projecting us under .500, but talk about how much we need to win. The title of the thread is "Shanny SHOULD" be on the chopping block, and then it's "well I'm not saying he should really be on the chopping block but it would raise red flags with me." You project 7-9, but you don't want to be toast by Halloween.

I don't think anyone has said we're 2-3 years from being good. I think last year we said we were 2-3 years from being good, which means this year we're about 1-2 from being good. Probably one year and one more draft and free agency period is my guess.

You can't have it both ways.

Perhaps my choice of words "chopping block" was poor... To me bein "on" the chopping block or hot seat is different than "they should be fired automatically" which I tried to make clear in my post.

Yes, I think if we have a really bad year that it will raise red flags for me and I'd be wary of Shanny and ready for him to be "on the hot seat."

Would I fire him? Probably not.... But could a terrible year make me consider him "on the chopping block?"

Yes

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

But I'll say this: If we go like 3-13 this year, the ****storm from the media/insiders/less educated fans will be Zorn like. He'll be going into 2013 on the hot seat definitely.

But I'll be honest, I don't know any coach that has gotten to stay all 5 years despite no improvement in the win column so I don't think it is set in stone that he gets 5 years automatically

[kleese]

But I'll say this: If we go like 3-13 this year, the ****storm from the media/insiders/less educated fans will be Zorn like. He'll be going into 2013 on the hot seat definitely.

But I'll be honest, I don't know any coach that has gotten to stay all 5 years despite no improvement in the win column so I don't think it is set in stone that he gets 5 years automatically

Thank you, that is all I'm saying.

Look at the Lions... Please don't tell me that when Schwartz took over they weren't in equally bad shape as we were... AND they drafted a rookie QB... It did not take them give years to become competitive. If you have the right guys picking the right players and coaching them the right way, it does not take five years to get above .500.... Which is all I am calling for.

---------- Post added August-19th-2012 at 10:42 PM ----------

I do think a poorly worded the tread title... If a mod wants to change it, "If we don't show improvement in the W/L column, Shanny SHOULD be on the hot seat" is more accurate of what I'm trying to say. I agree that drawing a line in the sand at a particular win total is silly... But I am sticking to the basic premise of my thread.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Thank you, that is all I'm saying.

Look at the Lions... Please don't tell me that when Schwartz took over they weren't in equally bad shape as we were... AND they drafted a rookie QB... It did not take them give years to become competitive. If you have the right guys picking the right players and coaching them the right way, it does not take five years to get above .500.... Which is all I am calling for.[COLOR="Gold"]

Yeah good example. I'm not an advocate for firing him anytime soon but if it is the off season following 2013 and we are still winning 5 games, it may be time and I'm sure the only ppl who would disagree are the members of this board lol

[Boss_Hogg]

Mike isn't going anywhere. He will work through year 5 and maybe beyond.

[greenspandan]

Disagree with the op. rookie qb and rebuilding o-line. The LAST thing RG3 needs is a change of administration. These players and coaches need several seasons to reach their potentIal. I understand shanny is in yr 3 already, but for rg3's sake, this team needs continuity more than anything else.