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We were competitive last year, how many games we lose by 3/7 or even 10 points, if not for grossmans redzone 4th quater picks we could have been 11-5
Re: If the Skins go 6-10 or worse, Shanny SHOULD be on the chopping block
We were competitive last year, how many games we lose by 3/7 or even 10 points, if not for grossmans redzone 4th quater picks we could have been 11-5
Re: If the Skins go 6-10 or worse, Shanny SHOULD be on the chopping block
Eagles
1997: 6-9-1
1998: 3-13
Enter new coach/GM/rookie QB
1999: 5-11
2000: 11-5
---------- Post added August-19th-2012 at 11:58 PM ----------
Colts
1997: 3-13
Enter new coach/rookie QB
1998: 3-13
1999: 13-3
I have now provided four examples (Lions, Falcons, Eagles, Colts) of teams in the past 15 years that brought in new coaches/GMs, gutted rosters, AND added highly drafted rookie QB's that started immediately. None of those teams took anywhere close to five years to become competitive... Three of them had double digit wins in their second year; it took the 0-16 Lions into the third year to do it.
Other teams in not identical, but similar situations have taken a similar path...
Vermeil had two double digit loss years in St. Louis then won the Super Bowl with a QB who had never started an NFL game prior.
The Jets had a new coach/rookie QB go the the AFC Championship game their first two years...
Find me an example in the modern NFL where a new regime (whether adding a QB or not) has taken five years to reach a playoff level and then had success?????
---------- Post added August-20th-2012 at 12:00 AM ----------
If a regime has the goods, it does not take five years to show up on the field, period. History dictates otherwise.
Re: If the Skins go 6-10 or worse, Shanny SHOULD be on the chopping block
I understand your point, but when you say 6-10 in your OP and then focus on 3 to 4 wins like ^^^, you kind of lose me.Originally Posted by kleese
The o-line and secondary are works in progress, a rookie qb, a bunch of new guys, and a crapload of youth says to me this year could get kind of ugly.
What I will be looking for is improvement in play from all these areas as the year unfolds. If that happens, Mike should be in no danger. If we can get our line and secondary worked out, 2013 and beyond should be special. This year? I'm thinking 5-8 wins, even if I'm holding out SB hopes.
Last edited by skinny21; August-20th-2012 at 12:10 AM.
Re: If the Skins go 6-10 or worse, Shanny SHOULD be on the chopping block
Again; the problem with your argument is that you're hedging your bets and contradicting yourself
"I'm not saying we're going 6-10, but if we get a 4-12 season he should be on the hotseat, now I'm not saying we will do that, I'm projecting we're end the season 7-9, and I'm not saying that he should be fired if he wins less than that but it would raise a red flag with me and what team gives their guy 5 years to turn around a team..."
Pick a position. Stick with it. Quit sitting on the fence.
Re: If the Skins go 6-10 or worse, Shanny SHOULD be on the chopping block
Naw, you have to stick with Shanny at least a couple more years. We are poised to dominate the division within a three year period. We are clearly the youngest team in the division. All the other quarterbacks in the division are like 32. I think Eli is 31. Griffin is 23. By the time Robert is 26, his prime. We will be the best team in the division. We need the continuity. These guys need to master Shanny's system both offensively and defensively. Plus, he has his quarterback to develop.
Last edited by Newera; August-20th-2012 at 12:21 AM.
Re: If the Skins go 6-10 or worse, Shanny SHOULD be on the chopping block
Kleese....while i get ur point....the one factor that those teams....lions, eagles and falcons all had in common were top 3 draft picks. .....with which they chose players that turned out to be franchise qb's......matty ice third pick, mcnabb second pick, and stafford was the first pick. And stafford and mcnabb (as well as peyton manning) had average rookie seasons.....additionally these teams did not have to trade to acquire their franchise qb....nor did they have money removed from their salary cap on the day prior to the beginning of fa. Just saying....
Re: If the Skins go 6-10 or worse, Shanny SHOULD be on the chopping block
I had to do a double take when seeing who created this thread.
Kleese? Have you been hacked? Off your meds? Heavy drinking?
Why would you want to change coaching staffs again? It never worked before.
Who cares if we win 3 games or 7....regardless of the win total or how much "progress" fans think has been made, this team was in such bad shape that Shanny should get some leeway. We fans are a bunch of goofballs.Shanahan should stay for the full contract, if for no other reason than the recent history of the franchise.
Aside from that, anyone can tell the roster has gained much needed talent and depth compared to when he took over.
Usually I find myself agreeing with many of your posts, but I don't get this one. I can get behind firing Haslett and Danny Smith if we don't win 7 games ;p
Last edited by SpacePenguin; August-20th-2012 at 12:25 AM.
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Re: If the Skins go 6-10 or worse, Shanny SHOULD be on the chopping block
In the Skins current rebuilding process you must consider this season not as Year 3, but as Year 1 for Shanny -- WITH RG3.
Your examples all include bad W/L results in the QB's rookie year. There is no reason to be surprised if the Redskins follow suit in 2012...
Now I am not saying that is to be expected with our squad - there are enough other pieces in place to raise expectation above a 3-5 win season. But nobody should be blindsided if this winds up being a terrible year in the Win column.
There's no way that a 6 W season THIS YEAR should get anyone thinking about a new regime. Let Shanny and RG3 TOGETHER move this franchise forward, starting on 9/9/2012.
Let's revisit this after RG3's second season in the NFL and see how we're feeling then.....
MJ
Re: If the Skins go 6-10 or worse, Shanny SHOULD be on the chopping block
I'm not sitting on the fence. I admitted several posts ago that drawing a line at 6-10 was poorly worded.
My position is simple... Majority opinion around here seems to be that we can't judge this regime for at least five years on their record. I disagree with that. I think a certain amount of winning needs to occur PRIOR to the 2014 season. I think we need to see some TANGIBLE results prior to year five in order to feel good about our direction.
I have now provided several examples of teams in similar situations who started winning well before that fifth year.
I am predicting us to win 7 to 9 games this year because I generally like the direction and I think we will surprise people.
But if we have a season where we are similarly competitive to last year I will be disappointed and red flags raised. I would consider Shanny on the hot seat entering year four for sure.
Now, I agree, picking an arbitrary win total to base that on us silly.... I shouldn't have use the 6-10 mark in my thread title. But many fans are saying things like "I don't care if we go 4-12 as long as we make progress." Personally, I don't think those two things are possible.
---------- Post added August-20th-2012 at 12:27 AM ----------
Changing regimes hasn't worked, no. But chew on this... Name the last coach who was given full opportunity to rebuild the franchise... A full SEVEN years????
Norv Turner.
So, sticking with one regime didn't work and neither has changing them.
Bottom line, when you get the right guys in place, you know soon... Results start showing up earlier than five years.
I'll ask again... Show me a successful regime in th modern NFL that took five years to reach a competitive (in terms of record) level?
---------- Post added August-20th-2012 at 12:30 AM ----------
I disagree with this. Really lets Shanny off the hook. He has a two year head start on the guys in Indy for example. To say he gets a blank slate and is on equal footing with them is very convinient. If Shanny has done his job thus far then he should be setting up RG3 for more success this year than Luck... Again, he has had two year head start to clean things up while the Colts are just beginning. In theory, RG3 should have an easier go than Luck.
Re: If the Skins go 6-10 or worse, Shanny SHOULD be on the chopping block
Give him his five years. He is a proven winner. When he came in there was little left to work with in DC. This team is younger and has more depth than it has had in years. Bruce Allan and Mike Shanahan have done a good job of putting the team together. By year five this team will be a force. When a roster has been that mismanaged it's going to take time to make something happen.
HTTR
SEASON TICKET HOLDER SINCE 2011 - Section: 428 Row: 24 Seats: 13 and 14
Re: If the Skins go 6-10 or worse, Shanny SHOULD be on the chopping block
Any coach hired in the wake of a Shanahan firing this winter would be coming in:
a) to coach a team with a lousy record (since that's a stated reason for dismissal of the current coach),
b) to give our 1st round draft pick his third offense to learn in three years (after the last 1st rounder we drafted got about five offenses in six years, including college),
c) while not having a first round pick in his first two years,
d) while spending 10%-15% less to build his team his first year than his competition,
e) for an organization that gave its last coach three years to execute a five year plan.
Yeah, you're setting that poor schmuck up for a two-year stint of failure and looking for a coach after 2014 anyway. If Shanahan can't get a better record out of these guys than in previous years, then I can tolerate failure in a professional environment a hell of a lot more than the laughingstock days of Spurrier or Zorn. If Shanahan wants to quit, that's one thing, but before I call for the man to be fired, he's got to murder a hooker or something.
Re: If the Skins go 6-10 or worse, Shanny SHOULD be on the chopping block
With all due respect, I disagree with the premise of the OP. I think the worst thing we could do at this point, even in the next few years, is get rid of Mike. It's gonna take time for RG3 to really develop, regardless of the circumstances, and for him to have to start over with a new HC, etc. would be disastrous, in my opinion, as it has been for some other QB's.
I think Shanny is gonna get his 5 years, regardless, and if all the pieces are falling in place and there is significant improvement(s) being made (which I honestly believe there will be), he'll be here longer. Honestly, I think Dan really respects Mike. I mean, I don't have any inside info or knowledge of the situation, just a feeling I guess. But, I really think that Dan is willing to ride it out for as long as he has to with Mike. It could mean we (the fans) have to develop a sense of patience for the first time in our lives lol, but I think in the long run it will be worth it.
Re: If the Skins go 6-10 or worse, Shanny SHOULD be on the chopping block
The bottom line is this, Mike Shanahan is the best coach we are going to get. The guy is a proven winner, and he's been doing the job a long time. He needs time to fix something that was a total and complete cluster **** before he took over. The inmates were running the asylum.
IF and I stress IF Shanahan was to leave before his 5 years were up, it better be by his own choosing, and not for reasons to do with difficulties with the organization or management. To be blunt, I'm of the opinion that Mike Shanahan is Snyder's last chance at redemption for getting any decent football mind to work for this team. He and the fans have no choice but to let this thing play out as it will for the duration. By duration I mean his 5 years and then probably an extension. If the impression is that Snyder became impatient and ran Mike out of town...put simply....we are DONE under his ownership. Make no mistake, the media will crucify him beyond anything we have seen before.
Re: If the Skins go 6-10 or worse, Shanny SHOULD be on the chopping block
Read sig.
/thread
Re: If the Skins go 6-10 or worse, Shanny SHOULD be on the chopping block
I feel like this happens to us every year. But the Good teams find a way to win those games[COLOR="Gold"]
---------- Post added August-20th-2012 at 02:32 AM ----------
Last edited by Murphs56; August-20th-2012 at 01:32 AM.
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