If the Skins go 6-10 or worse, Shanny SHOULD be on the chopping block

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Which leads me to believe one of two things: Either the coaching staff has done a bad job at evaluating and collecting talent, or we have adequate talent and the coaching staff does not know how to properly utilize it.

Either possibility leaves me pretty grim. The hope Shanahan initially instilled in me is fading fast.

You summed it up perfectly. It is one of those two things and they both fall at the HC's feet. I can understand players not executing or having bad games but week in and week out coupled with the poor discipline constantly on display. Shanahan has a lot to address. I am all for giving him next season as his make or break year and if no turnaround, adios.

Unless Payton would seriously consider coming here then I would jump all over that in a second.

[clskinsfan]

Polian's track record isn't that spectacular, he had some very bad Colts drafts.
Shanahan is a good drafter, his track record is 10x better than Polian's.

Polians track record is far from poor. He built quite a dominate franchise in Indy. Now Shanny on the other hand isnt that spectacular. His Super Bowls came with mostly inherited players. And this current team whcih he hand picked is abysmal.

[The Tris]

Polians track record is far from poor. He built quite a dominate franchise in Indy. Now Shanny on the other hand isnt that spectacular. His Super Bowls came with mostly inherited players. And this current team whcih he hand picked is abysmal.

Despite my current feelings on Mike Shanahan being completely lost, this couldn't be further from the truth.

Check Polians drafts from 2004-2011. Its atrocious. The "dominate franchise" was a one player team, and you saw what happen in 2011 when that player wasn't there.

And 15 of the 22 starters on the 1997 Broncos were brought in by Shanahan.

[clskinsfan]

Despite my current feelings on Mike Shanahan being completely lost, this couldn't be further from the truth.

Check Polians drafts from 2004-2011. Its atrocious. The "dominate franchise" was a one player team, and you saw what happen in 2011 when that player wasn't there.

And 15 of the 22 starters on the 1997 Broncos were brought in by Shanahan.

This is 12 years of picks for Polian which I would consider good players. Bill Polians Draft picks:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana...ory#1998_Draft
Peyton Manning
Edgerrin James
Markus Washington
Reggie Wayne
Ryan Diem
Dwight Freeney
Cato June
Robert Mathis
Dallas Clark
Bob Sanders
Joseph Addai
Antoine Bethea
Jacob Tamme
Pierre Garcon
Thats a pretty solid draft history.

This is 16 years of drafting for Shanny. The 3 drafts after he took over the Broncos netted one star player. Davis Thats it! I dont know where you got your 15 of 22 from but They certainly were not drafted. Here is the link.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/ful...1400&type=team
Shannys picks:
Terrell Davis
Trevor Price
Olandis Gary
Al Wilson
Deltha Oneil
Mike Anderson
Clinton Portis
Jay Cutler
Brandon Marshall
Elvis Dumervil
Ryan Clady
Kory Lichtensteiger
Peyton Hillis
Ryan Kerrigan
RG3
Alfred Morris

If you are a running back. Theres a chance you will be found by Shanny. But is that because of the system or talent level? Take a look at Shannys drafts they are absolutely abysmal.

[8181]

Shanahan SHOULD be on the chopping block for his GM bull**** but as a coach, an offensive-minded one, he is still doing a good job.

Today was a ****storm, but what team doesn't have games like these. Remember the Texans versus the Packers a couple weeks back? Remember the Saints????

I want to keep Mike Shanahan (and Kyle) for their offensive-minds, no matter how much Kyle tries to outsmart himself.

But there is something to be said about Mike's questionable GMing. We should be a LOT further 3 years in. It doesn't take 3 years to improve a team.

BIGGEST MISTAKES
2010 - Trading for Donovan McNabb and Jamal Brown - I was all for these moves but in hindsight....
2010 - NOT releasing Haynesworth.
2010 - Going to 3-4 and hiring Haslett... And if you are,why the hell do you keep Andre Carter and Rocky McIntosh and a bunch of misfits????? Get rid of anyone that doesn't fit.
2011 - Getting rid of Rogers. He can't catch, but he was a great corner.

Our team is royally ****ed right now, but it's the damn defense that's causing us problems. NOT OUR OFFENSE. So how do we fix it?

One - GET ANOTHER COORDINATOR ASAP
Two - GET A NOSE TACKLE. A REAL ONE.
Three - Find safeties.

Hall and Wilson are not the best, but they'renot as horrible as people are making them out to be. They get no pass rush and they have no coverage over the top and a ****ty coordinator. Hall is overpaid, but I believe we can be competitive next year so let's keep him until we find a relpacement.

OFFENSE

We need a RT. We need a WR, but that can wait if we have no cap room.

This team is currently **** because of Mike Shanahan trying to prove some kind of dumbass point with the 3-4 and not releasing Haynesworth, but we are not hopeless.

[The Tris]

I dont know where you got your 15 of 22 from but They certainly were not drafted.

I got the 15 of 22 number by looking at the 1994 starters (http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/den/1994.htm) and the 1997 starters (http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/den/1997.htm). Some of the 16 were drafted (I'd consider an UDFA like Rod Smith a draft pick, someone you conspicuously left out), and some were added as free agents - that's an equal portion of building a team.

The bottom line is that the majority of the players Shanahan led to the Super Bowl were hand picked by Shanahan.

Here is a long post that is fundamentally flawed but attempts to put Shanahan's drafting prowess in context.



This is distracting from the point at hand, that the real outrage I am feeling today has to do with his short comings as a coach - notably the lack of professionalism of this team. The reason many are feeling this same outrage doesn't have to do with his personnel wiffs from three years ago, it has to do with the on field short comings that stem from poor coaching.

[kearney]

Even though I have seen it 100 times, today is the first time I have actually opened this thread, because today is the first time I thought there was a chance we might win less than 6 games.

[clskinsfan]

I got the 15 of 22 number by looking at the 1994 starters (http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/den/1994.htm) and the 1997 starters (http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/den/1997.htm). Some of the 16 were drafted (I'd consider an UDFA like Rod Smith a draft pick, someone you conspicuously left out), and some were added as free agents - that's an equal portion of building a team.

The bottom line is that the majority of the players Shanahan led to the Super Bowl were hand picked by Shanahan.

Here is a long post that is fundamentally flawed but attempts to put Shanahan's drafting prowess in context.

Sorry but I dont consider free agents talent evaluation. You are simply taking someone elses evaluated players. And Shannys draft history speaks for itself. All you have to do is look at the link I posted. It has all of his drafts in their disgusting detail.

[skinfan2k]

Ray Horton should be our coach. He is doing an amazing job with the cardinals 3-4

[Vrikk]

This insanity has to end some time, right? We've been irrelevant for two decades now. Couple of playoff appearances, but that's about it.

It's not on Shanahan yet. But Haslett definitely has to go.

[kearney]

Sorry but I dont consider free agents talent evaluation. You are simply taking someone elses evaluated players. And Shannys draft history speaks for itself. All you have to do is look at the link I posted. It has all of his drafts in their disgusting detail.

Ummm... what??? How is free agency acquisitions any different than draft picks? If you pick them up you obviously value them higher than any other team.

[The Tris]

Sorry but I dont consider free agents talent evaluation. You are simply taking someone elses evaluated players.

This speaks volumes. No need to discuss this issue further. We simply have massive fundamental differences about Football 101 that I'm not going to be able to come close to closing.

[evmiii]

This line of thinking is what has kept us down so long; this system is still in the development phase. I admit it is behind where we all want it to be at this stage but considering we are missing 4 starters on defense, two on offense and millions of salary cap money what do you expect. I fully suuport a change in defensive coordinater, but let tho offense develop. We still have several holes to fill, but we are better positioned for the future than we have been in a long time. Keep the faith.

[SpringfieldSkins]

It's a simple as this: Jason Campbell.

Fire Shanahan and you have a QB that will become Jason Campbell. Way to go fans.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Here is the problem: If Shanahan is fired, Danny is out of moves. We can't bring in the hot young coordinator, because Danny will just eat him whole. The only system that has any chance of working here is the one strong guy with total control of everything. We've already done that with Gibbs and Shanahan. Unless Bill Parcells suddenly wants to work again, who is left that we can give that job to?

I guess we can go the Strong GM route, but we've never done that, I don't think Danny wants to do that, and I don't know if any big-time GM wants the job.

If this fails, I don't know what's left aside from hoping to get lucky.

Maybe be can bring Norv back in the offseason.