2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[stevemcqueen1]

Since you mentioned the game evolving, I think I would rather have 2 safeties that can cover vs. having one whose strength lies in run support.

I'll take an 8-yard run over a 25-yard pass any day. But then again, if you have a LAME DUCK who never plays it safe with 2-deep shell I guess it doesn't matter who the hell we have back there.

I think with a 3-4 defense, you have to feature a safety who excels in run support because you don't have a true third stack linebacker.

---------- Post added October-5th-2012 at 01:07 AM ----------

Robert Quinn has six sacks so far this year, including three tonight. Superstar in the making.

Will we regret passing on him for Kerrigan?

[terpskins10]

Robert Quinn has six sacks so far this year, including three tonight. Superstar in the making.

Will we regret passing on him for Kerrigan?

Considering we were able to pick up a lot from the trade down and the fact that Kerrigan isn't exactly a slouch himself, I think we made the right move. It'd be nice to have that monster speed pass rusher (which Kerrigan is not) but considering the picks we lacked in 2011, I'm satisfied with how things turned out.

[DogofWar1]

Robert Quinn has six sacks so far this year, including three tonight. Superstar in the making.
Will we regret passing on him for Kerrigan?

Not for him. Through 4 games Kerrigan actually had half a sack more. All it takes is Kerrigan to have a 3 sack day and he's caught up. I also think Kerrigan will ultimately be a more rounded player, and the added value we got via trading down makes Kerrigan the better choice IMO.

Now, JJ Watt is another story. 7.5 sacks AND 5 passes defended through 4 games? That's just not fair. I probably still take all the extra picks we got + Kerrigan over Watt, but darn if it isn't really close.

[Dannyc]

I could see us trading up for a safety or corner, if there's someone there Shanahan wants.

[Monk4thaHALL]

Sorry couldn't reply sooner,

EDIT: Andre Ellington vs. FSU (2012)

Have you noticed a tendency of his to run into tackles? He doesn't typically fight for yards either.

... lack of vision and power ...

That's a very good observation. Yeah, I've seen that as well. He won't run you over or through a defender, best chance for yards after contact is if he slides off something, does a twist or plants a hand on the ground to continue his momentum. There always seems to be a handful of runs that are really unattractive, lacking something. Those ones are usually right around the line of scrimmage, as I've seen. In space, he seems pretty efficient at making a move or two. I mean when he gets some room around the C gap he looks pretty good, around the A Gap, not so much. Vision cannot be stressed enough, especially for the Skins scheme. So good point on that.

Xavier Rhodes 2012

I'm extremely impressed with him. He looks like a first rounder in those cutups.

Yeah I agree, physically he's got the tools.

He does a great job using his hands ... Good leaper with long arms.

That's the first thing I saw, a good jab to disrupt the receivers 1st step. And the vids showed him with excellent arm length and high-point of the ball.

Why do they have him playing the boundary? He looks better than Greg Reid to me.

Anyway, he looks like the prototype for a starting outside corner in the NFL.

I'm not too familiar with FSU's defensive system, but it looks to me that he's assigned to the other teams top receiver. Be it an X or an Z. So maybe he plays short-side because of assignment or ... maybe it's beyond that designation of boundary, maybe that's just the way things look. Perhaps a design of having to defend against a lot of spread and pistol teams.

Jay Finch is only a junior. I thought for sure he was a senior, that's how impressive he is.

Well, I've read that you've had some indoctrination into the GT family, so I'm not surprised that you're bullish on him.

Last year he definitely looked lean and quick. Good first step and when the scheme or rather assignment kept him upright and allowed him to fire into the 2nd level, when he was given an uncovered look, he seemed like he could run with anybody.

So this year, you remember the VT game - I was taking notes that night of the game and of Finch, mostly for future reference. I didn't post them, but I remarked on the fact that he looked like he added weight from last year to this year. As a Soph, yeah he was that borderline 275 to 280 range, but now I'd say that's closer to 285 to 290 range.

I'm just not certain it was altogether "good weight." You see for me, it also looked like he lost a step. At least that's how it seemed against VT. Against lesser ACC competition he probably gets to showcase his downfield blocking more. And whoever #98 is from VT really made some excellent plays against Finch all night.

The other point was that Johnson was having the line cut / reach block all night, which was infuriating to me. One because I wanted to grade Finch on his heads-up drive blocking, but also two, VT was by and large stopping the run quite often.

Ascetically it came off as, "we're overmatched and we're just gonna not do anything other than get the 1 yard or two yard gain."

So that game, I was a bit disappointed for me.

He's a great cutter and second level blocker too--just a coordinated, agile blocker with some natural quickness. Good attitude too. And I trust his brain for the position.

Yeah, by and large that's what I noticed about him last year, I'm sure it rings true again this year. I do remember liking his UVA performance better.

But again last year, he was physically outmatched by John Jenkins and that's exactly who he'd face in the NFL. Chris Myers has grown into a physical muscleman able to control 2-Gap NTs.

I don't expect much difference this year when GT faces UGA - but if there were, I'd probably get really excited for Finch. And for whatever reason it's the 6th and 7th rounders for the center position that become these NFL mainstays, for whatever reason.

I agree that's he got something worth investment and especially for the current scheme.

Blaize Foltz

Wow, good find Monk. His weight room numbers are completely ridiculous. I'm going to tune in to some TCU just to watch him.

He's #66, the RG here:


__

Quinton Patton:

... he really looks like Pierre Garcon.

I'm just compiling guys that could slide right into the system and work from day 1. A slot receiver like Darius Johnson for the eventual departure of Moss, or just someone late round to add to competition, like Greg Hardin. And some outside receivers either X or Z. I'm really impressed with Brandon Coleman, I like Cobi Hamilton and likewise Patton and Harwell.

To me, this year's receiving class is pretty darn loaded.

If Da'Rick Rogers slides out of the 1st due to things outside the football field, I would heavily consider grabbing him. It's like the opportunity to land 1st round talent outside the 1st is really compelling. I would love to see the Skins cash in on something like that.

I saw Patton as a smaller school program guy, similar offensive stylings, could be there mid rounds and would impact right away due to scheme familiarity, plus his football savviness. I like him a good bit.

[Rabsuz]

Ray Ray Armstrong isn't a really special player, more of a big name with hype attached, I want to like him but he is such an average and stereotypical strong safety. He can't cover very well, he tends to whiffs on tackles, and really doesn't bring a lot to the table. If you didn't like LaRon Landry, you will hate Ray Ray because he is just a less talented LaRon, I can think of at least 4 safeties I want over Armstrong. He just isn't anthing other than another strong safety who can't cover and is not very fundamentally sound and does not make up for it with anything tangible. No thanks on him.

Also, I feel like we don't need to burn a 2nd on a RT, we can get one for a better value in the 3rd or even later, secondary help is paramount. The 2nd round pick will go to the secondary unless someone who we need to absolutely pick up is there for a massive BPA. You can get quality linemen past the 3rd round, but starting a rookie DB who was drafted past the 3rd scares me. It is frustrating to have so many holes to fill and no first round pick.

[wilco_holland]

Will we regret passing on him for Kerrigan?

Don´t think so. Kerrigan is more complete player i.m.o. Quinn is a freak but in a 3/4 I rather have a hardworking player who can do more then rushing the passer.

What do you guys think of Jeff Driskel? Sure he is nowhere close to beeing in a draft...but just your opinion. First game, I thought, mwha this guy doesn't has it. Next game I thought, Ey he does have some unique skills. And last game I thought he looked extremely good. This guy is growing so fast. I love his straight line bulletshots, mobilitie and he has shown the abilitie to sit in the pocket, slide and make a throw. I'm not great fan of him going deep but if I look at him I see someone who could develop in something special.

[DogofWar1]

Also, I feel like we don't need to burn a 2nd on a RT, we can get one for a better value in the 3rd or even later, secondary help is paramount. The 2nd round pick will go to the secondary unless someone who we need to absolutely pick up is there for a massive BPA. You can get quality linemen past the 3rd round, but starting a rookie DB who was drafted past the 3rd scares me. It is frustrating to have so many holes to fill and no first round pick.

The one problem I would have with picking up an RT past the 2nd is that most likely no one beyond that point will be NFL ready or an upgrade to Polumbus at any point over the 2013 season. Considering the difficulty of finding an RT in FA (Clady and Long are too expensive, Albert is probably getting an extension, and everyone else either has problems or isn't an upgrade), and the necessity of keeping Griffin upright, we can't afford to wait until 2014 for a tackle to develop or become available. Aboushi is probably our best bet at upgrading the position by the mid-way point of the 2013 season.

Simultaneously, there is some reasonable talent in FA for the safety position this year. Not a huge number, but there are at least four players who are still fairly young and are solid high level players, Phillips, Chung, Delmas, and Byrd, and there's a few other guys who would come cheap, but might be capable of starting. Salaries for safeties aren't prohibitively expensive either like some CBs and OTs might be, Goldson, one of the best in the game, was seeking a contract similar to Michael Griffin's, which was 35M/5 years. If we cut ties with Brown, and rework a few contracts we can easily make enough room for signing a top FA safety and corner.

I'm not saying we shouldn't draft linemen past the 2nd, we should continue to add cheap depth, but we really need to address this RT issue, and while I see FA options for safety and even for corner (I would love to see us get DRC from the Eagles and Phillips from the Giants to rub it in their faces), RT options are thin, and I don't see someone like Pugh, Yankey, or Nixon (the next three guys in the ZBS build I was looking at) as being good enough next year to replace Polumbus.

Edit: What are people's thoughts on Sam Baker? I had him on my FA watch list for a while then mysteriously forgot about him. He's working his way back from some injuries, but should still be solid.

[Kostaskins]

Talib's appeal comes from the fact he had great seasons in 2009 and 2010, not four games.[/QUOTE]

2009 & 2010 are 3-2 years behind us. Thats immense. I'm not buying us going after talib or people's fixation. If we go after some corner it will be in the draft or lesser known name on. A perfect example would be how we targeted the dline. Coifed, Bowen, carriker. Lesser know popular names that produce just as much

[GWinSkins83]

Talib's appeal comes from the fact he had great seasons in 2009 and 2010, not four games.

2009 & 2010 are 3-2 years behind us. Thats immense. I'm not buying us going after talib or people's fixation. If we go after some corner it will be in the draft or lesser known name on. A perfect example would be how we targeted the dline. Coifed, Bowen, carriker. Lesser know popular names that produce just as much[/QUOTE]
Only thing is youre making out like he's going to be a 10 dollar player. He's not that. 6-7 million a year for a CB still in his prime or coming in it with Elite physical talents. That our DB coach is comfortable with. It just makes sense. For all we know Mike would look at a healthy Chase Minnifield as a better option than CBs in the second round.

[darrelgreenie]

The one problem I would have with picking up an RT past the 2nd is that most likely no one beyond that point will be NFL ready or an upgrade to Polumbus at any point over the 2013 season.

I disagree about the difficulty of finding a RT past the 2nd round because you are over seriously valuing Polumbus level of play:

Michael Bennett (-0.7) did pretty well when rushing RGIII, picking up a sack, a hit, and five hurries. But considering he was working against Tyler Polumbus, his day could have been much better, as Polumbus is the third worst offensive tackle in our grades.

Keep in mind that because of Trent ability to play on an island Tyler is often given help in pass protection and the running game is more about the unit then the individual players yet he's still near league worst as on OT.
Even last year both of our late round rookies Willie Smith and Maurice Hurt graded out higher then Polumbus.
Seeking an upgrade over Polumbus won't be hard imo, heck it might even happen over the course of this season.

I would love it if they took a RT in the 2nd but when I look at our RT situation it is clear that its not a high priority for this FO to spend top resources to acquire.
And given the success of the OL and offense despite Tyler's belowe average level of play i doubt its going to be high priority going forward.

This quote from Mike stuck out to me:

“Everybody says we don’t have a good right tackle. I say show me who does?”

I don't see the FO locking onto RT as a must acquire position in the 2nd round to the point where they ignore BPA.
As always I think they gotta play it BPA at a position of need and let the draft come to them and not chase positions for whatever the perceived reason.

[stevemcqueen1]

Mike has a point, but there are some teams out there who put impact players at RT.

Mostly as run blockers. Jeremy Trueblood is a good player and Kareem McKenzie was good for years before he got old. Zack Strief is good for the Saints, and the Patriots get high quality LT play. Loadholt is pretty good. Eric Winston is a fine tackle.

Tackles like Anthony Davis for SF, Mihcael Oher for Baltimore, or Andre Smith for Cincy are also high potential, high draft pick players who can be real difference makers in the ground game. They look like they've made strides this year and are coming into their own. I still like Gabe Carimi's potential too.

I agree that quote indicates RT is not a high priority for our FO. Could be cost prohibitive to get a good one.

[Dukes and Skins]

Mike has a point, but there are some teams out there who put impact players at RT.

Mostly as run blockers. Jeremy Trueblood is a good player and Kareem McKenzie was good for years before he got old. Zack Strief is good for the Saints, and the Patriots get high quality LT play. Loadholt is pretty good. Eric Winston is a fine tackle.

Tackles like Anthony Davis for SF, Mihcael Oher for Baltimore, or Andre Smith for Cincy are also high potential, high draft pick players who can be real difference makers in the ground game. They look like they've made strides this year and are coming into their own. I still like Gabe Carimi's potential too.

I agree that quote indicates RT is not a high priority for our FO. Could be cost prohibitive to get a good one.

RT is one of those positions you want to upgrade, but if its between a CB with better value and a RT who you are reaching for, you take the CB. Will we upgrade RT? I definitely think so, but I also think we have an option in house who can fill the RT need in Tom Compton

[DogofWar1]

I disagree about the difficulty of finding a RT past the 2nd round because you are over seriously valuing Polumbus level of play:

Keep in mind that because of Trent ability to play on an island Tyler is often given help in pass protection and the running game is more about the unit then the individual players yet he's still near league worst as on OT.
Even last year both of our late round rookies Willie Smith and Maurice Hurt graded out higher then Polumbus.
Seeking an upgrade over Polumbus won't be hard imo, heck it might even happen over the course of this season.

I would love it if they took a RT in the 2nd but when I look at our RT situation it is clear that its not a high priority for this FO to spend top resources to acquire.
And given the success of the OL and offense despite Tyler's belowe average level of play i doubt its going to be high priority going forward.

I don't see the FO locking onto RT as a must acquire position in the 2nd round to the point where they ignore BPA.
As always I think they gotta play it BPA at a position of need and let the draft come to them and not chase positions for whatever the perceived reason.

I'm just very worried about what will happen when we play teams with 2 edge rushers. Polumbus got manhandled against St. Louis, and I would hate to see another ~28 games of that before we get someone solid into position circa 2014. It's pretty impressive that the line has played so well in spite of his weaknesses.

I really do hope that a mid rounder or some out of nowhere FA could upgrade the position, but I'm pessimistic and cynical, and really just want to lock it down hard. The damage our offense could do with Trent on one end and a good to great OT on the other would be incredible. Our run game would be insane. Fingers crossed for Tom "stright outta" Compton, but I felt the same way about Willie Smith and got my heart broken.

And for what it's worth, I feel like if Aboushi is there early in the 2nd day, he might just be BPA, and he might just be there too, since he's something like the 7th rated tackle atm (and rising, so we'll see, but then again, only 2 OTs went in the 1st last year, so who knows).

I was actually pretty adamant about taking safety in the 2nd round up until I looked at the FA classes. Currently, safety looks "deep," while OT looks weak in FA. And I'm not sure what caliber CB we'll be looking at in the 2nd round of the draft. If there's a 1st round CB or S talent available in addition to Aboushi, then I would probably feel fine with whatever the FO does.

Edit: One thing on CB, I'm actually conflicted on how worried I should be. On the one hand, I would like to upgrade at the top and increase our depth for the nickel, but on the other hand, we almost never use the nickel formation. I think when they looked at how often the nickel was used, the Redskins came in dead last. As such, having 2 solid guys and a decent #3 (and #4 for injury depth) might be enough, and Wilson, Hall, Crawford, and Minnifield might be enough there.

Then again, if we decided to move Hall to FS, we'd have to add another top level corner, but would be able to look at safety less.

[stevemcqueen1]

Polumbus got rocked against Cincy too. He's not having a good year at all.