2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[GWinSkins83]

Somehow someway I want to get Jordan Reed, Tavon Austin, FSU RB Thompson, Matt Elam, and Minter.

[Monk4thaHALL]

---------- Post added October-7th-2012 at 08:12 AM ----------

profile:
http://www.mutigers.com/sports/m-foo...sheldon00.html

[Dukes and Skins]

^^^ Still one of the more underrated DT prospects in this class Monk

[Dukes and Skins]

This team really needs about 1 more good CB and 2 Safeties and they'll be in good shape.

[Dukes and Skins]

As for what I've been thinking draft wise? Well the more it goes through my head, the more I think Tom Compton is going to end up being our RT next year. This was his one year to get his strength and technique up and worked on. Next year he can take over for Tyler and Tyler can move back to his natural position of being a swing tackle.

With that said I would seriously be happy with this

2. Tony Jefferson S Oklahoma
3. Terry Hawthorne CB Illinois
4. Blaze Foltz G TCU
5. Kenny Tate SS Maryland

Foltz I think its a better fit at G and that could push Gettis to C. Adding Jefferson, Hawthorne and Tate to the back 4 is huge for the team and all are realistic areas where they can go. Hawthorne for some reason has slid on boards, but on mine he continues to rise has a little Asante Samuel in his game which is fun to watch.

[stevemcqueen1]

This team really needs about 1 more good CB and 2 Safeties and they'll be in good shape.

We need another legit pass rusher too.

With Orakpo out, Kerrigan is the only pass rusher worth anything on the entire roster. Bowen, Cofield, and blitzing one of our DBs, Riley, and Fletcher are, frankly, pathetic as a secondary source of pressure. That was pretty clear today. We're incredibly vulnerable to an Orakpo or Kerrigan injury.

We finally solved our QB problems after an embarrassing succession of mistakes at the position (we hope).

The next greatest set of mistakes this FO has repeatedly made is in stubbornly refusing to acquire pass rushing talent for the defense.

I feel like this issue has been widely overlooked, mainly because Orakpo has been so good and Kerrigan was immediately successful.

Hiring Haslett was a mistake. He's installed a vanilla two gap heavy 3-4 defense that was out of vogue a couple of years before we installed the scheme. We're not even a true rip off of the Steelers's scheme. They're a stunting, zone blitzing 3-4 defense with an ability to generate pressure from multiple sources in the front, outside their two starting OLBs. They can scheme in pressure and they've had a collection of disruptive players that we simply lack, like Aaron Smith and Lawrence Timmons.

We went out and signed and drafted a bunch of gap controllers and tacklers and lost some of the few disruptive players we did have in our transition, like Haynesworth and Landry, without ever truly replacing them. And I think a big part of that is because Haslett isn't creative enough to find a role for disruptive DLs and ILBs. He and the FO have been content to find round pegs for round holes instead of changing the hole to fit the superior piece.

We've missed a lot of opportunities to add disruptive players in the draft and in FA. Kerrigan is the only disruptive player and playmaker we've added to the defense in this regime, and even he represents somewhat of a missed opportunity. He's certainly a well rounded linebacker who covers well, has a knack for turnovers, and consistently generates good, not great pressure. But he's not really an elite pass rusher, and you got the sense from watching him in college that all of his hustle sacks weren't going to translate cleanly to the NFL. We passed on superior rushers and disruptors in J.J. Watt, Nick Fairley, and Robert Quinn to trade down and draft Kerrigan. Fairley has been hurt and hasn't lived up to expectations at all so far, but it hurts a little bit seeing J.J. Watt and Robert Quinn grow into the players we thought they could become.

And being able to add Leonard Hankerson, Dejon Gomes, and Roy Helu doesn't make up the difference between a player like Kerrigan and Watt. Those are each marginal guys who could easily be off the team next season.

Going with Riley instead of finding a blitzer and thumper to compliment London means we can't generate interior pressure like the Steelers can with Timmons.

Going with gap controllers like Jarvis Jones, Bowen, Carriker, and Cofield instead of adding a disruptive player like Stephen Paea means we can't generate interior pressure from the line with base personnel like the Texans, Ravens, and 49ers can.

I don't usually like playing the what if game, because hindsight is 20/20 and decisions are so difficult in real time. But we've made mistakes and missed opportunities that were identifiable at the time. We should be looking for a new DC and a better 3-4 scheme in the offseason IMO. And we should make it a priority to find some sort of consistent interior rush.

[ConnSKINS26]

Could we and the Shanahan's put up with the loud mouth of Rex Ryan? Because he could very well be a top-level DC available after this season after failing as a head coach. This is assuming that he doesn't get another HC offer immediately. He might not because of his personality and the media **** storm he brings with him as a HC.

But as a DC...You can't normally find such proven, successful guys without luring one from another team and promoting him to HC.

[Dukes and Skins]

Conn I actually have thought about that myself. I wonder if we could deal with him as the DC, but he knows how to coach Defenses, just not whole teams

[Laron Burgundy]

Conn I actually have thought about that myself. I wonder if we could deal with him as the DC, but he knows how to coach Defenses, just not whole teams

I question how good that defense has been under him. They are great in a lot of metrics, but they have never been all that good at rushing the passer. How much of a difference does Revis make for that d? Surely you can't give credit to a coach when one player makes or breaks his scheme.

He's not bad at coaching a defense by any means, but I don't think he's worth the headache. Certainly want Haslett gone, but I'll pass on Rex. Would rather take a chance on Kirby Smart from Alabama. Seems like an ideal fit.

As far as what Steve was saying about our defensive players, I hate to look back at past players I wanted on this team that we passed on. Sure, not all of them have been hits, but considering my mancrushes on Calais Campbell and JJ Watt; I wonder where this defense would be had we drafted them over Devin Thomas and Kerrigan. Or Paea over Jenkins. Could you imagine a line of Campbell, Paea and Watt? Certainly would hurt to see Kerrigan gone though.

I wonder if our team isn't still better suited for a 4-3 defense. Many draft analysts thought both Kerrigan and Orakpo were more suited to being defensive ends, we would have a deep dt rotation and the only weak spot in the front 7 is at wlb, though I'm sure Keenan Robinson could fill there. Doesn't change our secondary at all, but I have to wonder if we're really built to be a 2 gapping 3-4.

[stevemcqueen1]

Rex is a great defensive coach and tremendous motivator. But he does bring some toxicity with him. Braggadocio and lawlessness. He's not a great fit with our players IMO. Our key defenders are good guys like Orakpo, London, Kerrigan, and Bowen. A nice guy coach like Wade Phillips seems like a more natural fit.

I'm honestly not sure who the best candidate for DC would be. I'm also not sure we can easily get the kind of defensive linemen to run a top defense within the next year or two without first round picks. Improvement is going to have to come from within. And we're going to have to get lucky and be smart in the draft.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

I question how good that defense has been under him. They are great in a lot of metrics, but they have never been all that good at rushing the passer. How much of a difference does Revis make for that d? Surely you can't give credit to a coach when one player makes or breaks his scheme.
.

Largely because that defense is awful - absolutely dreadful talent wise. Bart Scott is in decline. Their rushers have never been that great, Calvin Pace and Bryan Thomas both suck - I honestly think Rob Jackson is better than both of them. David Harris is good not great. Cromartie is only an okay #1 CB. Kyle Wilson is an ideal nickel but not sure he's ready for primetime on the outside. Coples has given them NOTHING so far, and Wilkerson is only okay at this point. They're actually trotting out Yeremiah Bell and Laron Landry (who is gonna fall apart any time now) as their safeties. The Jets have drafted horribly the past few years, starting with mega-bust Mark Sanchez.

It's not at all surprising that defense has fallen off, especially with no Revis. Rex Ryan has been getting WAY more mileage out of them then he should.

I see what Steve says about cultural fit but if he's the best guy out there, then maybe bring him in - our defense could use a little touch of nasty and meanness, and keep in mind, he'd only be the DC, so it would still be Shanny's culture for the most part.

[GWinSkins83]

We need another legit pass rusher too.

With Orakpo out, Kerrigan is the only pass rusher worth anything on the entire roster. Bowen, Cofield, and blitzing one of our DBs, Riley, and Fletcher are, frankly, pathetic as a secondary source of pressure. That was pretty clear today. We're incredibly vulnerable to an Orakpo or Kerrigan injury.

We finally solved our QB problems after an embarrassing succession of mistakes at the position (we hope).

The next greatest set of mistakes this FO has repeatedly made is in stubbornly refusing to acquire pass rushing talent for the defense.

I feel like this issue has been widely overlooked, mainly because Orakpo has been so good and Kerrigan was immediately successful.

Hiring Haslett was a mistake. He's installed a vanilla two gap heavy 3-4 defense that was out of vogue a couple of years before we installed the scheme. We're not even a true rip off of the Steelers's scheme. They're a stunting, zone blitzing 3-4 defense with an ability to generate pressure from multiple sources in the front, outside their two starting OLBs. They can scheme in pressure and they've had a collection of disruptive players that we simply lack, like Aaron Smith and Lawrence Timmons.

We went out and signed and drafted a bunch of gap controllers and tacklers and lost some of the few disruptive players we did have in our transition, like Haynesworth and Landry, without ever truly replacing them. And I think a big part of that is because Haslett isn't creative enough to find a role for disruptive DLs and ILBs. He and the FO have been content to find round pegs for round holes instead of changing the hole to fit the superior piece.

We've missed a lot of opportunities to add disruptive players in the draft and in FA. Kerrigan is the only disruptive player and playmaker we've added to the defense in this regime, and even he represents somewhat of a missed opportunity. He's certainly a well rounded linebacker who covers well, has a knack for turnovers, and consistently generates good, not great pressure. But he's not really an elite pass rusher, and you got the sense from watching him in college that all of his hustle sacks weren't going to translate cleanly to the NFL. We passed on superior rushers and disruptors in J.J. Watt, Nick Fairley, and Robert Quinn to trade down and draft Kerrigan. Fairley has been hurt and hasn't lived up to expectations at all so far, but it hurts a little bit seeing J.J. Watt and Robert Quinn grow into the players we thought they could become.

And being able to add Leonard Hankerson, Dejon Gomes, and Roy Helu doesn't make up the difference between a player like Kerrigan and Watt. Those are each marginal guys who could easily be off the team next season.

Going with Riley instead of finding a blitzer and thumper to compliment London means we can't generate interior pressure like the Steelers can with Timmons.

Going with gap controllers like Jarvis Jones, Bowen, Carriker, and Cofield instead of adding a disruptive player like Stephen Paea means we can't generate interior pressure from the line with base personnel like the Texans, Ravens, and 49ers can.

I don't usually like playing the what if game, because hindsight is 20/20 and decisions are so difficult in real time. But we've made mistakes and missed opportunities that were identifiable at the time. We should be looking for a new DC and a better 3-4 scheme in the offseason IMO. And we should make it a priority to find some sort of consistent interior rush.

U lost me on the Kerrigan thing. JJ would be under utilized here too. You first say Haz don't know how to call n scheme to our player's strength then rag on a player ballin not actually doing what he does best. Watt is ballin because he is a great player getting put n asked to do what he does best. Simple as that. Kerrigan is not a hustle player but a very skilled player with a motor. I highly doubt Watt is as productive if he's asked to 2 gap. Quinn is not asked to drop back into coverage either. All he is asked is set the edge and get at the QB. Kerrigan is asked to do more. Also going in the draft last year we didn't have a 2nd. We did after the trade. Where we haven't seen the good of the trade is Jenkins. But he's coming off an ACL injury and still is young. We have to give it time n another coach that showcase all of our players talent.

---------- Post added October-8th-2012 at 01:41 AM ----------

Rex is a great defensive coach and tremendous motivator. But he does bring some toxicity with him. Braggadocio and lawlessness. He's not a great fit with our players IMO. Our key defenders are good guys like Orakpo, London, Kerrigan, and Bowen. A nice guy coach like Wade Phillips seems like a more natural fit.

I'm honestly not sure who the best candidate for DC would be. I'm also not sure we can easily get the kind of defensive linemen to run a top defense within the next year or two without first round picks. Improvement is going to have to come from within. And we're going to have to get lucky and be smart in the draft.

Actually Rex is the perfect match with the players. He instill some of that nastiness in these players. Players we got don't intimidate no one. And that's the problem with them. Its not a smash mouth defense. Which we should be in the NFC E

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

U lost me on the Kerrigan thing. JJ would be under utilized here too.

Steve is suggesting we passed on JJ *because* we had Haslett installing a conservative, vanilla, 2-gap 3-4 defense.

The irony is that we were expecting an aggressive, zone-blitzing 3-4. But instead, we hired the 3-4 version of Greg Blache.

[stevemcqueen1]

As far as what Steve was saying about our defensive players, I hate to look back at past players I wanted on this team that we passed on. Sure, not all of them have been hits, but considering my mancrushes on Calais Campbell and JJ Watt; I wonder where this defense would be had we drafted them over Devin Thomas and Kerrigan. Or Paea over Jenkins. Could you imagine a line of Campbell, Paea and Watt? Certainly would hurt to see Kerrigan gone though.

That line would be nasty. They'd be nearly impossible to matchup with physically.

It would certainly hurt to lose Kerrigan, he's been a terrific linebacker. But having a second great pass rushing OLB is a luxury most teams don't have.

Still, when we actually made the pick at 16, it looks like we chose the right man. Kerrigan has been better than the alternatives IMO: Cameron Jordan, Cameron Heyward, Adrian Clayborn, Prince Amukamara, Muhammad Wilkerson, and Corey Liuget. That's my opinion anyway.

What stings more was losing opportunities to improve the front at other picks.

We're at least stable with a "good enough to not embarrass us most of the time" player at most of our positions on the roster now. It'd be nice to start taking some risks and trying to find impact talent.

I wonder if our team isn't still better suited for a 4-3 defense. Many draft analysts thought both Kerrigan and Orakpo were more suited to being defensive ends, we would have a deep dt rotation and the only weak spot in the front 7 is at wlb, though I'm sure Keenan Robinson could fill there. Doesn't change our secondary at all, but I have to wonder if we're really built to be a 2 gapping 3-4.

Our defensive linemen aren't right for a 4-3. All four of our top linemen are much better for the 3-4 now, replacing them all in one offseason would be hard. They've already transformed their bodies. I think you'd also change the coverages, though it's not like there is anyone indispensable in the secondary...

I wouldn't go back to a 4-3 for the simple fact that Orakpo and Kerrigan have grown into their positions in the 3-4 and are good and natural 3-4 OLBs. I think both are better at playing LBer now than they would be playing DE for most 4-3 schemes. They make plays in coverage and can backpedal and play laterally. It's nice having them defend the run standing up in space. They've got all of these skills and this comfort level now, might as well use them.

Plus the front is still a fundamentally good defense and still used by the Texans and 49ers.

Basically, I think it would take fewer and less expensive changes to turn our defense into a really good 3-4 base than it would a really good 4-3. Go out and get a better coach and find a disruptive DL and we'll have gone a long way.

[NLC1054]

Hindsight is tricky, tricky thing.

The way we built our defense didn't seem like a bad thing last year when they were playing really well. I think it's coaching more than talent. Namely our defense is vanilla as hell and lacks any sort of creativity.

It's too easy to say "we should've/could've taken this person in the draft and added this piece in free agency" when things are going bad.

Rex Ryan and Mike Shanahan would mix like really pissed off bag of hornets and a really pissed off bag of bees.