2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[Dukes and Skins]

Its funny that I've seen JJ mentioned over multiple places about how well he played against the Falcons. I think JJ is finally starting to trust that knee again and going back to playing that disruptive game

[NLC1054]

But that was also with only 1 year of Haslett and him showing more 1 gap looks than he has since then. Now we run that primary 2 gap Pittsburgh style Defense. Watt was seen as a good pick at the time because of that 1 gap look, Quinn still seemed to be that guy, until STL took him. Honestly I'm not gonna gripe about it because Kerrigan is a stud

Did we 1-gap a lot in 2010? Honestly, we sucked so bad that year defensively that maybe I'm just not remember, but I remember Kemo and Bryant being over the center style nose tackles and playing the 3-4 straight up unless we convince Albert to drag his good for nothing ass out on the field.

I think J.J Watt was certainly a guy who was in play, but every indication was that we were looking for another pass rusher in the former of an outside linebacker rather than a DE.

As for Quinn...I feel like in a 3-4, he'd be sort of like Rak. Flashes of dominance along with inconsistency because it doesn't work well to his skillset.

I thought in linebacker drills Quinn looked stiff, like he wasn't comfortable or smooth on his feet; you could see it in his hips that covering in space was going to be an issue for him. Just didn't look natural as a stand up 3-4 outside linebacker guy, and that's what probably what swung us away from Quinn and to Ryan. Ryan looked fluid on his feet, good hips, good feet. His looked comfortable on his feet. Quinn didn't.

Quinn is good where he is now, in that wide 9 style of 4-3 where he could use his speed and power to rush up field every down. He wouldn't be able to do that here.

[Dukes and Skins]

Did we 1-gap a lot in 2010? Honestly, we sucked so bad that year defensively that maybe I'm just not remember, but I remember Kemo and Bryant being over the center style nose tackles and playing the 3-4 straight up unless we convince Albert to drag his good for nothing ass out on the field.

I think J.J Watt was certainly a guy who was in play, but every indication was that we were looking for another pass rusher in the former of an outside linebacker rather than a DE.

As for Quinn...I feel like in a 3-4, he'd be sort of like Rak. Flashes of dominance along with inconsistency because it doesn't work well to his skillset.

I thought in linebacker drills Quinn looked stiff, like he wasn't comfortable or smooth on his feet; you could see it in his hips that covering in space was going to be an issue for him. Just didn't look natural as a stand up 3-4 outside linebacker guy, and that's what probably what swung us away from Quinn and to Ryan. Ryan looked fluid on his feet, good hips, good feet. His looked comfortable on his feet. Quinn didn't.

Quinn is good where he is now, in that wide 9 style of 4-3 where he could use his speed and power to rush up field every down. He wouldn't be able to do that here.

I clearly remember us running so many variable looks and of that using more 1 gap. Kemo just couldn't do it and we had no one else who could. I agree we sucked so bad that year and I didn't really care to watch our D, but I do remember more 1 gap looks that year than any other year

[GWinSkins83]

Talent is talent though.
Before the Iggles Cullen Jenkins played 5-tech DE in a 2-gap 34 in Green Bay and was a disruptive player.
Watt would likely have different stats here then in Houston, but he would still be our best and most disruptive DL.

---------- Post added October-8th-2012 at 02:50 PM ----------

Re:Skov

ILB wouldn't be high on my priority list

I believe Packer shot gap away more in their system than you lead on.

[Dukes and Skins]

Playing next to B.J Raji helped too...

God what I wouldn't do for a Raji-esque nose tackle...

Almost had him too, took Orakpo at 13 and Raji went 9

[NLC1054]

I believe Packer shot gap away more in their system than you lead on.

Playing next to B.J Raji helped too...

God what I wouldn't do for a Raji-esque nose tackle...

[GWinSkins83]

Watching Polumbus yesterday reminded me how badly we need a true RT. I know, i know, the secondary, yadda yadda, but come on, invest in it now, because we need to. FA or draft, we need to upgrade. I sincerely hope Aboushi lasts to wherever we are in the 2nd, and we can lock him down. Williams and Aboushi would take our line from just below average to well above average. Our interior is not great, but they are serviceable, and Hurt and LeRibeus might still turn into starters, but we don't really have anything after our starters at tackle, and we need to fix that. I'm not putting much stock in Compton, as much as I'd like to. The way Black played, I'd have to think Compton would have been called up by now if he was something solid. Sure, he could develop, but if Compton is worse than Black, and Black is worse than Polumbus, can we truly expect Compton to leapfrog Polumbus by opening day 2013?

We invested too much in the guy under center to ignore it any longer. I know the injury wasn't on Polumbus, but how long until one is on him? That, and we have an awesome RB in Morris. Add an RT to that equation, and suddenly he's a 100 yard per game guy every game.

I want a RT but dang man we are scoring with the best of them. Our defense is the reason for 2 losses already.

[darrelgreenie]

I believe Packer shot gap away more in their system than you lead on.

I don't know what you mean by 'shot gap' nor how that would change the Packers running a 2-gap 34?

---------- Post added October-8th-2012 at 04:46 PM ----------

I think Cullen Jenkins made his own hay.
He's still doing his thing in Philly in a completely different scheme without BJ Raji, conversely the Packers pass rush has taken a huge hit in his absence.

Talent is talent, point being that a disruptive DL is going to be disurptive.
To think that Watt would be less talented because of our scheme, imo is wrong headed.
Would his production be different then in Houston? Sure.
But he would most certainly still be our best DL and provide more pass rush and playmaking from the DL then we currently get.

[GWinSkins83]

For the most part people in this thread express themselves pretty clearly.
I don't recall anyone calling Kerrigan over Watt as a mistake or a gripe.

And even in a 2-gap 34 a disruptive DL is still a disurptive DL see: Cullen Jenkins w/ Packers
Watt would be our most disruptive DL regardless of scheme the dude is a talent.

I disagree. People wouldn't even be on Watt right now if wasn't for his sack totals. But he gets those stats because he's not asked to play two gaps.

[Monk4thaHALL]

There are a few cut-ups out there, for those looking into him.

[NLC1054]

I disagree. People wouldn't even be on Watt right now if wasn't for his sack totals. But he gets those stats because he's not asked to play two gaps.

Seems more likely that Watt would command double teams and the linebackers would get the glory.

He'd be disruptive, I think, but in a different way than he is in Houston.

[darrelgreenie]

I disagree. People wouldn't even be on Watt right now if wasn't for his sack totals. But he gets those stats because he's not asked to play two gaps.

People have been 'on' Watt prior to this season.

I think you're too wrapped up in the scheme argument and hatin on Haslett to see the simple truth.
Watt is a disruptive DL in his own right not merely because he plays with Houston.

And if Carriker can get 4-5 sacks in this scheme there is no reason why Watt couldn't match or surpass that and make additional hustle/chase plays and batted down passes.

But if you want get scheme specific and how a disruptive DL fits in a 2-gap 34 i'll bite:
Watt would likely be able to consistently beat/control the gap of his OG enough to warrant help.
Cofield (although miscast at NT imo) provides solid enough NT play to can occupy the Center and one OG.
This makes it difficult for the other OG to receive help against Watt or (any disruptive DL) without bringing an OT to double which would creates a favorable 1-1 elsewhere along the front along the for Rak vs a TE or RB.
And/or if a team decides to give OT help to Rak then Watt or whomever gets a 1-1 w/ a OG.

[Monk4thaHALL]

OT Eric Fisher from CMU

Eric Fisher is pretty interesting. There are 3 games available on espn 3 for Central Michigan, one against Michigan St.

Speaking of which, I'm still bullish on Chris McDonald from MSU.



...

I focused on Fisher here as well (LT #79 - for those that don't know):


...

along those lines:

William Gholston is someone like a Couples body frame and athletic ability. I actually think he should be our target.

I assume you're talking with our 2nd rounder?

To me, Gholston comes off slow (vs real competition). Some lack of explosiveness with him, he gets shut down too easily at times for me to really like him.

I didn't see him beat Fisher once on one-on-one. His sack came from a stunt that the Left Guard failed to pick up.

WG made plays when rushing over the RT, not against Fisher. If I determine that Fisher is a 2nd rounder (still getting a feel for him) and I'm choosing between him and Gholston, I go with the guy that I felt won the 1-on-1 matchup - Fisher.

[GWinSkins83]

People have been 'on' Watt prior to this season.

I think you're too wrapped up in the scheme argument and hatin on Haslett to see the simple truth.
Watt is a disruptive DL in his own right not merely because he plays with Houston.

And if Carriker can get 4-5 sacks in this scheme there is no reason why Watt couldn't match or surpass that and make additional hustle/chase plays and batted down passes.

But if you want get scheme specific and how a disruptive DL fits in a 2-gap 34 i'll bite:
Watt would likely be able to consistently beat/control the gap of his OG enough to warrant help.
Cofield (although miscast at NT imo) provides solid enough NT play to can occupy the Center and one OG.
Which would make it difficult for a OL to give an OG help against Watt or (any disruptive DL) without bringing an OT to double (because they're already occupied with Barry) which would create a 1-1 elsewhere along the front along the for Rak or vice versa if the give OT help to Rak that gives the DL a 1-1 w/ a OG.

Im not hating on Haz or getting caught up in scheme. Just stating a fact. You don't know what Watt would bring to this defense if asked to two gap. He's a good player but do we know he'd be as valuable as Kerrigan been for us?

[darrelgreenie]

Just stating a fact. You don't know what Watt would bring to this defense if asked to two gap.

Scratching my head.
We're both having a speculative conversation, you're speculation that Watt wouldn't be good in a 2-gap 34 isn't any less speculative then my opinion that he would be good.

You're argument has been our scheme is poor fit for his skillset, my point is that his skillset is scheme diverse.

He's a good player but do we know he'd be as valuable as Kerrigan been for
us

The above is a completely different discussion then the one we've been having.
But, if you are asking.... the way I look at football a disruptive 34 DL is more beneficial to the overall defense then a second pass rushing OLB.