2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[wilco_holland]

This kid, please!

[Dukes and Skins]

I'm not a big of Sutton to be honest. If we're talking 3-4 DE's he's not a guy I see for us, give me Gholston, Short, Hunt over him

[bird_1972]

Any good NT prospects out there? Someone who can collapse the inside of the pocket?

We need that.

[Dukes and Skins]

Any good NT prospects out there? Someone who can collapse the inside of the pocket?

We need that.

The guys who can collapse the pocket are gonna be gone before we pick ie Louteilei and Hankins

[wilco_holland]

Any good NT prospects out there? Someone who can collapse the inside of the pocket?

We need that.

How is our friend Poe doing? I have seen 0 chief games this year...only flashes.

[Dukes and Skins]

How is our friend Poe doing? I have seen 0 chief games this year...only flashes.

Looking like an over-drafted player to be honest

[stevemcqueen1]

Looking like an over-drafted player to be honest

I think Scott Pioli has seen what he wanted to see with some of the defensive linemen he's drafted. Dontari Poe and Tyson looked the parts that Pioli drafted them for. They looked like Wilfork and Warren/Seymour. They just haven't played to that level, and I think you could predict some of that in their college careers. Both were reaches.

[Dukes and Skins]

I think Scott Pioli has seen what he wanted to see with some of the defensive linemen he's drafted. Dontari Poe and Tyson looked the parts that Pioli drafted them for. They looked like Wilfork and Warren/Seymour. They just haven't played to that level, and I think you could predict some of that in their college careers. Both were reaches.

Honestly Pioli has lost all flavor as a GM and is looking at not having a job after this year

[stevemcqueen1]

I'm not a big of Sutton to be honest. If we're talking 3-4 DE's he's not a guy I see for us, give me Gholston, Short, Hunt over him

I really, really like Short. He doesn't look as impressive as Gholston or Hunt and he doesn't run as fast as Sutton. But I think he's the best of the three you mentioned by a good margin.

Gholston isn't the sum of his parts IMO, and Hunt is a project.

Short knows how to play. I like players who come into a program and force you to play them. Short carved out a big role immediately as a freshman and he's just gotten better since, putting up big numbers every year. Purdue has been pretty heavy with DLs over the years too, it's a big deal he's been such a fixture for all four years as THE guy in the middle of that defense.

Good instincts. He's solid finding the ball, doesn't always sniff out the misdirection, but he'll work to the ball with a great deal of success. He's got an amazing amount of natural power and he plays with leverage. He uses his long arms well and he's fantastic with his hands. He's amazingly successful with that little swat and swim move he does. I mean he gets free on that thing every single time. I have to think it's because he's so ridiculously powerful. In general I like DL prospects that come in with a well developed understanding of how to use their hands. These guys come in and usually produce when they're healthy.

Another thing I look for is how often a DL sees a double team. A college DL who sees a lot of doubles and finds success against them has such an advantage coming into the NFL. Short sees them all of the time, probably one of the most doubled linemen in the class. He gets most of his snaps at the 1 technique it looks like, and he makes a ton of plays from this position, usually double teamed by the center and a guard. Gets easy penetration at will. But also never gives up ground in the running game, the guy is just amazingly powerful and big. He also does a great job redirecting his weight and has a really nice level of agility and quickness for such a mauler. He's just really hard to block and it looks like he wins his matchup at a really high rate for an interior DL seeing the kind of attention he does.

I see some Shaun Rogers in him as a best case scenario. I see some of the same things I loved about Nick Fairley in the way he uses his hands and his angles to blow up the line of scrimmage (not the same level of explosiveness and quickness though). I think he's a significantly better player than Phil Taylor and Dontari Poe were.

I personally think Short is a first rounder, and not too terribly far off Hankins and Lotuleilei (doesn't have their explosiveness or their motors, but can take over games in a similar way). He got a third round grade from the draft advisory committee, which I think is shockingly conservative. If he makes it to the second, he'd be an awesome choice for us. Unlike Hunt or Gholston, he can play each position on our DL and be a legit force against the run--not just the pass--on any down at any position.

---------- Post added October-19th-2012 at 10:23 PM ----------

Honestly Pioli has lost all flavor as a GM and is looking at not having a job after this year

The only thing that's kept the wolves at bay for Pioli this long is that his predecessor got run out of town prematurely, before he could ever realize the fruits of an amazing 2008 draft class that Pioli was fortunate to walk into.

Pioli abandoned BPA on some of his high first round picks and those are the ones haunting him. He's also had a lot of problems dealing with the KC media (unbelievable considering he came from Boston). And I've heard rumors he instituted a terrible dysfunctional culture in KC with arrogance, secrecy, and spying being the norm.

Pinning his hopes Matt Cassel was a stupid mistake that was stupid at the time it happened. But his drafting has been a complete mixed bag, and that's what I want to talk about. He's had some hits on his BPA selections, and some disastrous misses when he veered off that course.

His mistakes with Poe and Jackson are the exact case in point why I can never accept the sort of targeted need based approach to the draft I see people advocating. I've listened to Pioli talk about the Jackson pick and what he says seems to make all of the sense in the world on paper. He picked Jackson because he knew that with his defensive scheme, you have to build it around a big, elite defensive lineman that controls his part of the line of scrimmage and serves as the foundation for the defense--Richard Seymour with the Patriots. So he viewed Jackson as a potential candidate to fill this roll, and thus saw him as extremely valuable to his team. He couldn't trade down on draft day apparently, didn't think Jackson would make it to him at his next pick, so he went ahead and pulled the trigger.

The problems with the pick ended up being many. First and foremost, Jackson was a massive reach at 3. He would have been a reach at 13 when we picked. Pioli mis-evaluated Jackson, he hasn't been as impactful and good as he thought he could be. He drastically overestimated his value to the rest of the league IMO--I think he would have been available into the teens and maybe 20s. In short, he forced the pick to fill an immediate need he saw . On the other hand, Brian Orakpo, who would have been terrific value at 3, fell to us at 13, we scooped him up literally without a second thought, and he went to three Probowls in three years.

Reaching to fill needs doesn't usually solve any problems. The Chiefs are no better off now than they were before they made that pick, and they're probably worse off than they could be if they'd gone for value that year IMO. You can't force or chase the draft. You have to ALWAYS be flexible in your team building approach and be willing to cut bait on players and plans when better solutions come along.

It's funny because I think Pioli has actually made a lot of fantastic BPA picks in KC. His 2011 class was pretty masterful outside of the first round pick he made.

Justin Houston, Jon Asamoah, Eric Berry, Rodney Hudson, Allen Bailey, Toney Moekai, maybe even Javier Arenas--all really nice value picks and some of those guys are already producing.

Dontari Poe, John Baldwin, Dexter McCluster, Jeff Allen, pretty much the entire 2009 class--all bad reaches at where they were taken.

This is a case I feel that illustrates the fundamental disagreement I have with darrellgreenie's ideas of team building. Whereas he views certain types of BPA picks as wasteful because they block the development of extant talent and/or stockpile talent at certain positions, I view it as an ultimate solution to creating positions of strength. How much better off would KC be long term if they hadn't forced that Jackson pick, had gone with Orakpo like they should have, and then been free to take Michael Brockers or Quinton Coples instead of Dontari Poe... both vastly superior talents IMO. When you reach to fill needs or over value the potential of your own players, you hamstring yourself. Kansas City can't cut bait on Jackson even though he's a dud because they invested so much into him for a mediocre return. They passed on better options than him at the time at positions they already had some strength in, and were also forced to pass on better 5 technique options than him available in subsequent drafts.

Dovetailing into a different discussion, I wouldn't pass on any significant talent at WR to preserve a chance at developing Leonard Hankerson or Aldrick Robinson. And I like both of those guys. The worst outcome of stockpiling talent is that you end up with a bunch of talented guys on your team to work with, even if you wasted some picks to get there. The worst for trying to get clever and force every piece into a puzzle is you get it wrong and end up with an untalented, inflexible mess.

Ultimately, I think Pioli will get fired, his management style has been toxic and unsuccessful. But I actually think he's going to leave a full cupboard for his successor because of how good some of those BPA picks he made were, and his successor will be able to cut bait on the overdrafted busts in a way Pioli can't.

---------- Post added October-19th-2012 at 10:42 PM ----------

I think the Chiefs offensive line would be the toast of the NFL if they'd give up on the Albert at LT experiment and move him to guard where he has always belonged.

Dump Lilja and draft a talent like Taylor Lewan to play LT and move Albert inside. Tell me an OL that starts:

LT: Lewan
LG: Albert
OC: Hudson
RG: Asamoah
RT: Winston

With Jeff Allen as your swing G/T isn't, by far, the most impressive line in the league?

Plus you've got a good blocking TE like Moekai and a pair of dangerous backs in Charles and Hillis. And some nice, big target receivers in Baldwin and Bowe.

Seriously, how is this not working? Does Cassel seriously suck that bad? Did Haley and does Crennel? They're easily the most well constructed team in that pathetic division. The defense certainly has talent too. Pioli should absolutely be fired for screwing the pooch on those two calls so badly, not to mention to toxic environment his paranoid, arrogant management has created.

This organization is just begging for a good GM to come in and hire and hire a good coach and go out and find a good QB. Their leadership is horrific. Replace all three key positions with good alternatives and you'll immediately have one of the best teams in the NFL.

[Laron Burgundy]

Chiefs probably will clean house after this season, but I wonder if this qb class will end up being a nightmare for them. Regardless of who they draft I feel they'll be reaching on a guy. In my eyes no qb this year deserves a top 3 pick, and if they pull that trigger they might be looking at another 3 or 4 years of up-and-down play.

[stevemcqueen1]

Chiefs probably will clean house after this season, but I wonder if this qb class will end up being a nightmare for them. Regardless of who they draft I feel they'll be reaching on a guy. In my eyes no qb this year deserves a top 3 pick, and if they pull that trigger they might be looking at another 3 or 4 years of up-and-down play.

I don't like this QB class either.

I actually think its a much better bet for Landry Jones in the second round than Barkley in the first.

I'm also not sold on Geno Smith.

I actually don't like most of the guys being talked about for the top ten this year. There are very few elite players in this class, very few top guys who are clean.

If I were them I'd pass on the first round QBs and go BPA. I'd go for one of the tackles or the defensive linemen.

[wilco_holland]

Chiefs probably will clean house after this season, but I wonder if this qb class will end up being a nightmare for them. Regardless of who they draft I feel they'll be reaching on a guy. In my eyes no qb this year deserves a top 3 pick, and if they pull that trigger they might be looking at another 3 or 4 years of up-and-down play.

Difficult. We all agree with cleaning the house...but I´m looking at this O and you need to find a way to use there speed. They got homerun hitters. I would try to find some deep threat and a QB with a cannon of an arm. Make the D cover deep and let Charles run wild. If the man get´s space he is a beast.

Logan Thomas would have been my favorite going into the season...but I don´t like him. He does have a arm...he has some Big Ben like qualities.

If I would be the GM this would be my plan going into the offseason:

- Improve of the inside triangle of the D (d-line, ILB).
- Find deepthreat WR's
- Get a big arm QB
- Get a better LT

[Skins4Life6388]

Nice to see a HS teammate of mine, Alec Lemon, have a huge game last night for Syracuse.

[Dukes and Skins]

Chiefs probably will clean house after this season, but I wonder if this qb class will end up being a nightmare for them. Regardless of who they draft I feel they'll be reaching on a guy. In my eyes no qb this year deserves a top 3 pick, and if they pull that trigger they might be looking at another 3 or 4 years of up-and-down play.

They'll take Geno at #1 if they get it. Once they take Geno watch out, that offense will take off

[GWinSkins83]

Yeah yall crazy if you dont think Geno is a top 3 draft pick. I would grade him even with Luck. Geno plays like Brady to me. He also has everything you want in a QB. Also heard he was the best QB and most determined QB at Manning Camp.