2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[Kostaskins]

Damontre Moore olb from Texas a&m is a beast! He's playing n there new 4-3 this year but kid could play 3-4 olb as well. I would love him in our d! He's a junior I believe

[Dukes and Skins]

Yeah yall crazy if you dont think Geno is a top 3 draft pick. I would grade him even with Luck. Geno plays like Brady to me. He also has everything you want in a QB. Also heard he was the best QB and most determined QB at Manning Camp.

it isn't even close with Geno. Its like this for me

1. Geno
BIG DROP OFF
2. Wilson
3. Barkley
4. Dysert
5. Manuel

And I wouldn't even take a guy like Landry Jones till round 4 at best

[Monk4thaHALL]

... Short. He doesn't look as impressive as Gholston or Hunt and he doesn't run as fast as Sutton.
...

Giving skills context. I understand.

He's amazingly successful with that little swat and swim move he does.
...

Agree with that.

[double teams]Short sees them all of the time, probably one of the most doubled linemen in the class. He gets most of his snaps at the 1 technique it looks like, and he makes a ton of plays from this position, usually double teamed by the center and a guard.

yep

Gets easy penetration at will.

This I don't see. His game isn't penetration, at least from my perspective.

But also never gives up ground in the running game, the guy is just amazingly powerful and big. He also does a great job redirecting his weight and has a really nice level of agility and quickness for such a mauler. He's just really hard to block and it looks like he wins his matchup at a really high rate for an interior DL seeing the kind of attention he does.
...

I can only speak for myself on Short, but last year I was very intrigued with him. One, yes because of his size and space occupying skills in the middle of the Purdue defensive line. But almost as importantly, Two, the fact that he was in that 3rd round range. I thought to myself that if a talent like that was available in the 3rd, one would have to jump on it. Now that people want to bump him up to the 1st round, I'm not as ready to jump.

Why - Because I think his skillset is limited to being big, strong, yet slow. I think he's exclusively a Nose Tackle, a good one, but a NT nonetheless. In other words, his game is to occupy space, get his hands on the guy in-front of him (center / guard) and just dance, hold ground, be an anchor, play 2 gaps.

I know you've mentioned this before and I've had this observation as well, the Skins are slow on defense - big and slow. At least with concern to the d-line.

Perpetuating the Skins defense which is already built with big guys who are slow for the NFL, Short would be another big and slow player, perfect for the Skins.

So, yeah I know the Skins like that kind-of guy ... they like the 300+ plus big lug at all 3 spots, not the athlete. And I thought that was the fundamental crux of the discussion we've been having about Watt and the "athletic" 5-Techs out there, as opposed to the rinse - repeat another DT.

I like Short, I think he can be a good addition to a team running a 3-4 geared to stopping the run, but I don't think he'll do much (for himself) on pass rush. But he can create for others by eating up space, taking on double teams. Eventually NFL teams will just single block him with just a center because he's not as explosive as you'll see with other pass rushing type DTs and NTs.

I think he's a significantly better player than Phil Taylor and Dontari Poe were.

Poe was just flat out over-drafted. He should have gone in the 3rd based upon what he showed on the field.

I personally think Short is a first rounder, and not too terribly far off Hankins and Lotuleilei (doesn't have their explosiveness or their motors, but can take over games in a similar way). He got a third round grade from the draft advisory committee, which I think is shockingly conservative. If he makes it to the second, he'd be an awesome choice for us. Unlike Hunt or Gholston, he can play each position on our DL and be a legit force against the run--not just the pass--on any down at any position.

Star L is just a freak, at a different level. Short might be on the level of Hankins when it comes to controlling the POA. Short I think understands his role and thrives in it, yet one has to know the limitation.

The 3rd round grade came from last year (2011), I believe.

As you noted, just as limited are Gholston and Hunt from playing the NT - one is not going to confuse either of those two as being fit for NT, I think you're overvaluing Short's ability at quickness and explosion and rushing the passer. In fact I think all three of those guys leave something to be desired when it comes to pass rush. #90 for Purdue looks more the athlete, better suddenness and change of direction - lighter on his feet, when it comes to chasing a QB.

He's big, obviously plays 2 gaps, he is a run stuffer, but no pass rush. Built for the Big 10, big DT/NT, but slow.

So ... yeah, in this class he's up there because he's good at playing in the middle and taking up double teams, creating for others. I agree that he's more developed than Poe. Poe was just flat out over-drafted, he should have gone in the 3rd based upon what he did on the field.

But I think a happy medium between your 1st and the draft committee 3rd (of last year) is the 2nd round this year - early 2nd.

Short right now vs Ohio State: makes nice plays in the run game, can plug things up the middle, but when Ohio State passes the ball, Short cannot create for himself. He just dances with the center and guard, or draws the double team.

Though that in of itself can create for someone else. Which just happened in one series, with whoever #99 is on Purdue, who got the sack.

Short had that late hit on Miller -
If you ask me it was a late because, had he been a step faster, a second quicker, he would have hit him just as he released the ball ... instead it was a penalty (didn't hurt the team though).

[Dukes and Skins]

I like Short, but his inconsistencies as a DT are troublesome

[stevemcqueen1]

I like Short, but his inconsistencies as a DT are troublesome

I agree with you. He's inconsistent, motor runs cold, he falls into ruts. He also bites on misdirection a lot.

Given all that though, he's been amazingly productive. He can flat out overpower his competition and he is good at finding the ball so he gets a lot of tackles and a lot of TFLs.

[Dukes and Skins]

He wont be a first round pick with that highly inconsistent motor. Actually am disappointed when I watch him compared to what he can be

[Monk4thaHALL]

Xavier Nixon should be a guard rather than a tackle in the NFL. I think he'd do better covered up, has the athleticism to run zone, move in space - but not so hot on an island in pass-pro. I like him later in the draft than where he's listed.

[Laron Burgundy]

Yeah yall crazy if you dont think Geno is a top 3 draft pick. I would grade him even with Luck. Geno plays like Brady to me. He also has everything you want in a QB. Also heard he was the best QB and most determined QB at Manning Camp.

Geno just does not look the part of an elite qb to me. He doesn't have a quick release or elite arm strength, and he holds the ball for an eternity, though he does slide well in the pocket. Also, for being an athletic qb, he's not the best at throwing on the run. Certainly his decision making has looked elite so far this year, but I feel like with his tendencies he will give up a ton of sacks. He isn't anywhere close to a Brady or Luck in my eyes. To me he looks like a smaller, smarter Byron Leftwich.

[Dukes and Skins]

Geno just does not look the part of an elite qb to me. He doesn't have a quick release or elite arm strength, and he holds the ball for an eternity, though he does slide well in the pocket. Also, for being an athletic qb, he's not the best at throwing on the run. Certainly his decision making has looked elite so far this year, but I feel like with his tendencies he will give up a ton of sacks. He isn't anywhere close to a Brady or Luck in my eyes. To me he looks like a smaller, smarter Byron Leftwich.

I'm sorry but what? The bolded part is the complete opposite

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Smith to me is RGIII lite. Quick release but not insanely quick like RGIII. Fast but not insanely fast like RGIII, and I don't think he'll be the runner that RGIII is. Accurate but not ridiculously accurate like RGIII. RGIII is MJ, Geno Smith looks like Clyde Drexler.

Or more like a rich man's Russel Wilson with height.

[stevemcqueen1]

Monk, good post about Short, you make some good points. I agree with you that he does more creating for his teammates than he does for himself. I also agree that he's not the sort of Watt-esque speed disruptor we touched off the discussion with. He's a power player no doubt, and a DE/NT hybrid who would probably be best playing 3, 2, 1, and 0 tech in the NFL--inside of where Watt lines up. He might even supersede Cofield at the nose in some packages and kick Cofield outside to DE.

But I disagree with you about Short not being that great a penetrator and pass rusher. I think he's a bit quicker than you think, and definitely more disruptive than you say. I think he's really good at creating for himself with his hands and he can redirect his weight well for such a big player. I think he does a pretty good job at getting angles on his opponents with a deceptively quick first step too, compromises the LoS with it from time to time.

Big picture, he's got 15 career sacks, really good for a primary nose. He's also got 43 career TFLs which is great for any player in a defensive front. I think he demonstrates a tendency and ability to knife into the backfield and get after the ball, not just hold ground, collect blockers, and play his gaps.

Let me see if I can't find some instances in cutups demonstrating his ability to disrupt:



0:20 - swat and swim gets him free, closes on QB fast, sack.
0:55 - good bull jerk move, gets free but QB gets ball off on screen pass (shows off good range and athleticism to make the tackle)
1:32 - swim and swat again, gets into backfield and forces the runner outside for his teammate to clean up for a TFL (#99, who was unblocked playing outside contain).
1:41 - good bullush, puts the opponent on skates, gets his hands up but QB completes quick pass to running back
2:20 - looks like a jerk move again that gets him into the backfield free but fumbled snap that QB falls down on and #99 comes unblocked and touches him down.
3:26 - disengages with another jerk, really strong hands, redirects his weight well, QB tries to scramble his way but Short forces him outside and he gets trapped a little ways up field and goes out of bounds. Good coverage on third.
3:46 - great first few steps with a juke and swats away the tackle with his hands, sack. You can hear Mayock call him a first round player on the replay and he compliments Short's hand use. Mayock and I tend to agree on QBs and DLs in particular.
4:00 - misreads play, starts to penetrate into the backfield before realizing they're running away from him, gets sealed from play. Overeager to penetrate here.
4:06 - beats his blocker with his hands again and gets into the backfield but misread play again--went for QB instead of the RB.
4:13 - wins with his hands again, gets into backfield, fooled again though, goes for the RB when the QB kept it on the read option. (still, all three plays show how good he is at slipping blockers and winning with his hands)
4:18 - straight bull rush, gets stopped short though, but gets his hands up and tips the pass.
4:27 - stunts and gets some space with it but QB throws ball away quick before the rush gets there.
4:35 - swat and swim again, his bread and butter, comes completely free and hits the runner in the backfield but it looks like he may fall forward for a one yard gain.

That's about 13 plays where he beats his man with a move and finds some sort of penetration form that set of cutups. I like the variety of ways he wins. He shows off a solid little repertoire of power moves and really high quality hand use to get himself those looks. He seems fairly competent rushing the passer from wider techniques the few times he gets those opportunities. He can get free and penetrate when he's single blocked. When he's doubled or at one or two points, tripled, he can control his space and get his teammates good looks. I think he can be a productive player against the pass, not just a running downs player.

I found three other sets of cutups for him that I can examine for his disruptive plays for a bigger sample size, but I thought that ND was a good game for him and it at least showed off what he can do as a disruptor when he's playing well.

All in all, I think you're probably right about his range being pretty far off from Hankins and Star. Those guys are clearly better and both are probably top five talents in this year. They're a good deal more explosive and agile, have better motors, and are more consistently dominant. The draft advisory projection in the third round was following his junior season. I imagine he's worked his way up some from that range just by virtue of continuing a good level of play as a senior. I do think Short would be a solid pick for a team in the first round. Will he go that early? Probably not. I thought Terrence Cody and Stephen Paea were rock solid first rounders too, but NTs really don't have good draft value most of the time. Short is a primary NT for both 4-3 and 3-4 schemes no doubt. Plus he's not as athletic as Paea and Cody were IMO. Decent late first range maybe, very solid second round value for both 3-4 and 4-3 teams.

---------- Post added October-20th-2012 at 05:05 PM ----------

He wont be a first round pick with that highly inconsistent motor. Actually am disappointed when I watch him compared to what he can be

The motor is an issue no doubt. He doesn't mix up his rushes like he should and I think it's because he gets tired. I think it stems from his weight. It looks like he's carrying as much as he can. I believe his 310 listing as much as I believed Boston College listing B.J. Raji's weight at 323. Short could probably stand to lose some bulk if he's pegged to be more than just a NT.

A bigger issue with Short for me is his play recognition. It's inconsistent, he misreads plays a little too often, which is troubling because he's normally a smart, experienced, instinctive player. They are mental mistakes he shouldn't be making, and might signify a bigger problem than the guy who makes similar mistakes out of a lack of experience.

---------- Post added October-20th-2012 at 05:11 PM ----------

Smith to me is RGIII lite. Quick release but not insanely quick like RGIII. Fast but not insanely fast like RGIII, and I don't think he'll be the runner that RGIII is. Accurate but not ridiculously accurate like RGIII. RGIII is MJ, Geno Smith looks like Clyde Drexler.

Or more like a rich man's Russel Wilson with height.

I think this is pretty close to how I feel.

I don't see the same elite physical attributes with Smith as with RGIII, and I don't see that same playmaking spark of genius with him that I saw with RGIII. I think his production has been the biggest comparison between the two. But I think the difference can be stated simply in that, for WVU the receivers are the ones with the onus of playmaking while RGIII was the one at Baylor. The game at Texas Tech demonstrated some chinks in the armor of both Smith and that offense.

I think some team might draft Smith, in love with his production, thinking they are getting the next RGIII but really they're getting a lesser talent.

[soljaofjesus]

I have been researching Safety, Linebackers and Offensive lineman.

I think our replacement to Fletcher is in Michael Mauti .. the LB from Penn State. We could definitely get him in the second round and beat out the ravens who will surely be to find a replacement for Ray Lewis. Look at the Video of him on youtube. The positives and negatives. Fit the 3-4 ILB scheme. Just looks like London out htere. Hard Hitter. Very Smart. Graduated student. We will probably see him in the Senior Bowl , and you know how Shanny likes to pull people from the Senior bowl. Good instincts. Not as fast as he was last year after he tore his ACL but more than serviceable at that



The Safety's I am looking at is Matt ELAM and DJ Sweringer . Matt Elam is fast, has has a presence in the backfield. Very active and makes plays. Big Hitter for being so small. Has the ability and often does cover receivers one on one. Not a sound/fundamental tackler but gets his guys down . BUT .... Once I watched some of his videos and after watching the Florida/ South Carolina game... WE HAVE TO GET Free Saftey DJ Sweringer. Walter football has him as going in the 5th and 6th round so if we could get him in the 4th, I think it would be a steal!!!
He says he tries to model his game after Sean Taylor and still watches video on him. If you watch the videos of him...you can see that he is a HITTER. Fundamentally aggressive. Check out these two videos





Lastly I am looking Oday Abushi... the LT from UVA. He could be a swing tackle, but he has the speed and athleticism that is perfect for the zone blocking scheme. Here is Walter football's analysis on him ....

Skill-Set Summary: There is a lot for NFL teams to like about Aboushi as a potential starting left tackle. First of all, he is extremely athletic. Aboushi has unique speed and athleticism that are in demand for the next level. Those makes him ideally suited to be developed into a good pass-protector against speed-rushers coming off the blind side. Aboushi has light and quick feet that allow him to mirror edge-rushers, too. He moves quickly to get back and be in position to pick up blitzers.

Aboushi has nice length that he uses to help keep rushers at bay. His arms look long and shouldn't hurt his draft status like it has other tackles. There are times when Aboushi gets sloppy and is too reliant on his long arms. He reaches rather than moving into position. Aboushi needs to accentuate his ability to use his hands and feet at the same time.

Aboushi's quickness and burst also allow him to be a dangerous run-blocker on the second level of defenses. He fires out of his stance and uses his agility to get in position to hit blocks beyond the line of scrimmage.

When Aboushi goes up against undersized defensive linemen or linebackers, he sustains his blocks well. The defenders struggle to get off Aboushi once he gets into their pads and he finishes his blocks well. Aboushi will punish defensive linemen or other defenders who go to the ground with some violent blocks to finish them off.

Aboushi is put together well for the pro game. He is not overweight and has good stamina. However, the tackle could use another 10-15 pounds of muscle. That will definitely be possible with an NFL strength and conditioning program.

Aboushi needs to be consistent this year. He is dominant sometimes, coming across as the total package. He shows sloppy technique at other times, which gets him beaten. Aboushi needs more development, but he has real potential to be a starting offensive tackle in the NFL.

Aboushi definitely would fit best in a zone-blocking scheme that emphasizes athleticism and movement skills. He doesn't look like a natural in a power man-blocking offense.



2013 Draft Expectations: Aboushi looks like a second-round pick as we approach the 2012 season. It is very possible that he produces a good senior year to break into the top-32. There is always a huge demand for left tackles with his athleticism. If Aboushi plays like he did in 2011, he is more likely to be a second-day selection.



IM LOOKING AT MICHAEL MAUTI IN THE 2ND. ODAY ABUSHI IN THE 3RD AND DJ SWERINGER IN THE 4TH. If it came down to it, I'd even take DJ Sweringer in the 3rd round if it looked like he could be gone by the 4th.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

I think this is pretty close to how I feel.

I don't see the same elite physical attributes with Smith as with RGIII, and I don't see that same playmaking spark of genius with him that I saw with RGIII. I think his production has been the biggest comparison between the two. But I think the difference can be stated simply in that, for WVU the receivers are the ones with the onus of playmaking while RGIII was the one at Baylor. The game at Texas Tech demonstrated some chinks in the armor of both Smith and that offense.

I think some team might draft Smith, in love with his production, thinking they are getting the next RGIII but really they're getting a lesser talent.

Oh don't get me wrong. I think Geno Smith could be a QB along the lines of Aaron Rodgers, and Smith has some natural elusiveness in the pocket. If I'm the Chiefs or Jags (Gabbert is a failure, thank you Shanny for not picking him) then I take him #1. But you're not getting RGIII. I think his ceiling is somewhere between Jay Cutler and Aaron Rodgers.

[stevemcqueen1]

One of the reservations I have about Short's repertoire is just how useful that swim move is going to be in the NFL. How many NFL players consistently make hay with that move? If you're not explosive enough and the OL is, and he keeps his hands free, he's going to put a hurting on your ribs.

Nick Fairley had a nasty swim move he used as his bread and butter in CFB but he had elite quickness and explosiveness to pair with his power. I wonder if Short is going to be able to keep using that move so effectively at the next level?

Maybe. He is really, really powerful.

[Dukes and Skins]

Oh don't get me wrong. I think Geno Smith could be a QB along the lines of Aaron Rodgers, and Smith has some natural elusiveness in the pocket. If I'm the Chiefs or Jags (Gabbert is a failure, thank you Shanny for not picking him) then I take him #1. But you're not getting RGIII. I think his ceiling is somewhere between Jay Cutler and Aaron Rodgers.

Geno in a WCO Offense like KC is just not fair.