2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[stevemcqueen1]

I don't think I need go play for play there. I just ... in between those times that he can use his strength, that slap/swim, he still looks "slow" to me. And maybe that's a relative thing. I don't know who to compare it to or against or how to really measure it out.

To me (at least right now) it's not a matter of inconsistency, it's a matter of limitation. It's not so much lack of consistent motor as much as it is lack of gears to the motor.

I don't think we're that far off on him. I think he's a pretty much a pure power player but what he lacks in explosive quickness, he compensates with explosive power. He can manhandle college linemen with his array of power moves.

I think he's got a good 1st gear and a 2nd gear. That's when he can win a POA match-up with a power move (slap/swim) and stuff something or disrupt something. I don't know if he has a 3rd gear. And he certainly does not have a 4th gear.

I think he closes fairly well for his size. But he's a big player, true 300+ pounder. You're right, he's not fast. He isn't going to chase much down and he's not going to make plays from stunting or outside rushes and rips. But I do think he gets a good jump sometimes and can surprise with a quick first few steps.

So, I think it's less that he's "on" and then "off" or giving less an effort when he looks average, as much as he has a certain limit of quickness and speed and he's not built to make certain plays.

Well, I think weight is an issue. But I see what you mean. His edge rushes and stunts aren't full tilt, almost like he knows he's not getting around the edge. He's a pure power player. When he has lined up on the edge and gotten sacks, it's usually from working off blocks and having the play funneled to his side.

I still like him as a candidate, specifically for the Skins, but again ... last week Bowen had a chance to sack Ponder, he couldn't do it, just not built to stop start and change direct on a dime when Ponder did his shimmy shake. I don't think Short makes that sack of Ponder either.

Short's lack of quicks would be kind-of par for the course around here. Of course, I'm always open to different possibilities and interpretation.

No, Short doesn't have that kind of agility and athleticism to break down and make plays off his frame.

If we're looking for a Watt style end/pass rusher, Short isn't that player. But I think he offers a source of interior disruption because of his power and his hands. I think he does fit the scheme pretty well. Does he bring something new and different? Not sure how well his pass rushes will translate to the NFL, but I think he's a similar, if more disruptive player to Jenkins. I do think he'd be a versatile player that could play in most of our packages at a lot of the positions on the line.

---------- Post added October-20th-2012 at 11:46 PM ----------

He winds up on some throws that should just be a flick of his wrist. I'm not saying it's a big dramatic motion. And it's not all the time, which is why I say sloppy, though perhaps you could call it inconsistent instead.

He's a good prospect, but not close to elite. I don't see how people could still defend him as a top 3 pick.

I think it was either you or TRGE who made the comparison earlier that I agree with: I see Geno as a tall version of Russell Wilson.

The QBs are weak this year. The fairly polished ones like Barkley and Smith are limited players who will probably be unspectacular in the NFL. The really gifted ones like Wilson, Thomas, Manuel, Bray, and Jones are all rough long term projects that haven't demonstrated a steady level of play in college worthy of going in the first round. Most of the underclassmen are going to be best off going back to school and playing out their eligibility.

The best players in this class aren't QBs. I still think Jarvis Jones is probably the best overall player in the class. I like Hankins and Star and see them as probably 2 and 3. Those are the three elite prospects of the class.

I like a lot of the offensive tackles higher than they are projected and see a couple going top ten.

I think Mingo is pretty weak. I think he's being horribly overrated based on his physical profile but the guy just isn't a very good player right now.

In general, I think the top of this class is really weak relative to the past few classes and it'll be a brutal year for teams picking in the top ten. Most years I can pick out 8 or more prospects who are really elite. This year I've got three.

---------- Post added October-20th-2012 at 11:50 PM ----------

Just going off my gut, let's say everyone fell into the best spot for them--I'd say Tyler Wilson ends up being the best QB from the class. He's a little old though. If Landry Jones falls into the right team like a Joe Flacco situation, he could thrive and be a good starter in time. But he's a project no doubt, and he needs a good team around him.

[GWinSkins83]

He winds up on some throws that should just be a flick of his wrist. I'm not saying it's a big dramatic motion. And it's not all the time, which is why I say sloppy, though perhaps you could call it inconsistent instead.

He's a good prospect, but not close to elite. I don't see how people could still defend him as a top 3 pick.

I don't how people can say he's not. I don't see no sloppy mechanics. He has a compact throwing motion, Elite pocket presence, and Elite accuracy. He maybe doesn't have an Elite Arm but so didn't Ryan and Luck. I just can't see them being overwhelming better QB prospects as him.

[Dukes and Skins]

I'm not a mod so I have no power, but keep the Haslett/Morris/ D scheming everything out of this and keep it to the prospects. Lord knows theres like 15 other threads you can discuss Haslett and company

[stevemcqueen1]

I actually don't have a problem with the game Haslett called for the most part. I liked the stunt that got us the sack and I thought we were getting good pressure with our blitzes all throughout the second half.

I think the TD from Cruz was perplexing--Wilson played him at the LoS but didn't jam him. Why? Mistake on Wilson's part or on the call? The pressure was decent on the play, but Cruz got a free release. If they had been able to slow him up at the line, that wouldn't have worked.

In general, I thought we looked superior most of the game, evenly matched at worst. The team is pretty talented, but man if we're not getting wrecked with injuries.

---------- Post added October-21st-2012 at 04:32 PM ----------

Speaking of which, now what in the hell are we going to do with Fred Davis? Try and get him to agree to a one year deal I guess. An Achilles on your franchise tag is just brutal. I don't know how he's going to come back from this.

Even with Santana's two nice TD catches, I worry about the level of our playmakers now with Davis out of the mix. I think this is a problem that could become acute over the course of the season. Garcon can't get back fast enough. Logan Paulsen can't be your leading receiver each week.

Oh and we're completely snake bit at safety. Is Madieu Williams the only safety from the preseason roster we still have healthy?

Also, Polumbus is just not any good.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

I think Moss should have been either #1 or #2 to begin with. He looks like he's 26 again. That screen for the TD was something out of the 2005 season. I think he can still take the top off the defense. Remember when everyone thought Steve Smith was done? And Wilson and Williams blew the call. I dunno what happened to Wilson, he's been atrocious since the Saints game. The safety situation is a nightmare obviously.

Yeah, I think we're drafting a TE this year. Maybe one of the Stanford ones. I don't know why Ertz isn't the #1 TE on the board. Gahh, it really hurts because trading the two firsts for RGIII is a great move with the team we THOUGHT we had going in, but that team hardly exists anymore. And thing is, the defense is too slow from sideline to sideline, and we're not getting any consistent pressure with Rak out. We're just too dependent on having 2 stud rush OLBs. And it's not just us, the Ravens have been a wreck, the Steelers have declined, the Jets have declined - those 2-gap defenses have all fallen off a cliff this year. Meanwhile Dallas bought some corners and now look solid with an atrocious down 3 and terrible coaching all around, and the Niners and Texans are still great.

[stevemcqueen1]

Ravens do mostly one gap it looks like.

The reason the Ravens, Steelers, and Jets have declined is because the personnel declined. They got old and they're constantly dealing with key injuries. They're changing the guard too I think. The Jets have never been able to recover from Revis injuries and the loss of Shaun Ellis. They are stockpiling DL talent with guys like Wilkerson and Coples, but it'll be a minute before they grow into the players they'll eventually become. The Ravens are going to be hurting and have to find a new identity when Suggs, Lewis, and Reed hang it up. I mean that's three HoFers getting old, impossible to truly replace that.

Meanwhile you got the Texans and 49ers chock full of young talent coming into its own.

We just need to keep adding talent, don't need to make wholesale changes.

#1 - keep the LBers strong and the soul of the defense will remain in tact
#2 - keep the line strong and versatile and you'll have flexibility
#3 - find some starting caliber players for the secondary and you'll get a unit that's acceptable.

One observation I had about the Giants--JPP is overrated and Osi is underrated. Trent handled JPP and the guy got his two big plays off of coming unblocked and beating Polumbus. Osi had a beautiful rush to beat Trent. The guy is a killer who just knows how to make plays. The Giants would be fools to lose him IMO.

I like the run defense. The Giants got nothing for the most part. The pass defense is hurting from all of the injuries. Jackson has made great plays in coverage and his blitzes looked sharp today. But the rest of the reserves haven't been as successful stepping up.

I didn't think pressure was as much the problem today as coverage. Deangelo just isn't playing great in man to man outside coverage. Wilson had an up and down day. The safeties are inadequate. The ILBs had a hard time covering the slot guys. We need to bolster the troops here and find some starters, probably one at safety and one at corner.

I do think Deangelo can move to safety full time and be solid, and who knows, maybe Bernstine can be a starter. So it's not the end of the world if we can't find a day one starting safety. But if you move Deangelo to S, CB becomes a huge need.

I think ILB could be a need quicker than I care to think about.

I think we've got four DLs worth playing, and all four can pretty much play each position. Be nice to get a fifth.

With the second rounder, I'd be looking for an impact type who falls. A Jonathan Banks or a Manti Te'o would be a blessing. As would one of the really good OTs or WRs.

In the third round I'd want a guy with the upside to eventually start. Someone like Kevin Minter or Quinton Patton would be fortunate.

And I'm still on the boat hoping for Montee Ball to fall to us in the 4th or later. Fix the RT situation and have a stable of RGIII, Morris, and Ball and that rushing offense would be pretty impossible to stop. We wouldn't have to fret Morris going out of the game.

[GWinSkins83]

I think Moss should have been either #1 or #2 to begin with. He looks like he's 26 again. That screen for the TD was something out of the 2005 season. I think he can still take the top off the defense. Remember when everyone thought Steve Smith was done? And Wilson and Williams blew the call. I dunno what happened to Wilson, he's been atrocious since the Saints game. The safety situation is a nightmare obviously.

Yeah, I think we're drafting a TE this year. Maybe one of the Stanford ones. I don't know why Ertz isn't the #1 TE on the board. Gahh, it really hurts because trading the two firsts for RGIII is a great move with the team we THOUGHT we had going in, but that team hardly exists anymore. And thing is, the defense is too slow from sideline to sideline, and we're not getting any consistent pressure with Rak out. We're just too dependent on having 2 stud rush OLBs. And it's not just us, the Ravens have been a wreck, the Steelers have declined, the Jets have declined - those 2-gap defenses have all fallen off a cliff this year. Meanwhile Dallas bought some corners and now look solid with an atrocious down 3 and terrible coaching all around, and the Niners and Texans are still great.

I hope we get Jordan Reed.

[Monk4thaHALL]

1: n/a
2: Tony Jefferson - S - Oklahoma
3: Leon McFadden - CB - San Diego St.
4: Rashard Hall - FS - Clemson
5: Brandon Williams - NT - Missouri Southern St.
5: Joseph Fauria - TE - UCLA
6: Tanner Hawkinson - G/OT - Kansas
7: Joe Kruger - DE - Utah
7: Darius Johnson - WR - SMU
_

u: John Boyett - SS - Oregon

[Dukes and Skins]

I would have no complaints with that Monk, I'd take even Duke Williams over Jefferson if he doesn't declare

[STBonecrusher21]

I hope we get Jordan Reed.

No idea how we pull that off, as I think hes a first round talent.

But id be stoked if we did. J Reed is fantastic.

[stevemcqueen1]

Jefferson is pretty nice in coverage Monk. Long looking, very athletic, fast, good feet, tremendous closer. But he's got some fundamental issues that scare me off of him at safety. I don't think he's got a lot of functional strength. He's a poor tackler that always goes low and he has no ability to impede forward progress. His angles of pursuit are also inconsistent and he has given up a lot of big runs from poor play recognition making me think his football IQ isn't that great and he's not the guy you want quarterbacking your secondary.

I've got some issues with Matt Elam too, and I think I like him less than most of us do. His play recognition is pretty good and he plays with emotion and physicality. But he makes a lot of dumb plays and he's not a great tackler, nor is he a top notch cover man. He's a pure box duty strong safety but he's undersized for the NFL.

I want a steady player at safety who will make his tackles and get his coverages right more than I want a fly around the field and try and lay the big hit/big play type.

---------- Post added October-21st-2012 at 07:40 PM ----------

I would have no complaints with that Monk, I'd take even Duke Williams over Jefferson if he doesn't declare

I like Duke Williams. Fast but disciplined and controlled.

---------- Post added October-21st-2012 at 07:42 PM ----------

This might be a year where you go out and spend some coin to get a big ticket starting outside corner in free agency like DRC.

[Dukes and Skins]

honestly I'd have no problem bringing in 2 guys through FA like a Talib and a DRC.

[Kostaskins]

Steve you do realize osi will become a free agent next year. They are the gaymen no room to sign both him, and Cruz and the other players they have as free agents, but he's 30 and has had knee injuries. Butttt he's pissed off still at Jerry Reece for not giving him a Long contract extension so...

Also for ilb what about porter from Texas a&m? And there junior olb is a beast too. Also Kansas state ilb looks good as well the transfer from Miami "U"

[Dukes and Skins]

Porter is an OLB in the NFL. We're in decent shape at ILB, only guy I'd take if there would be Shane Skov

[lavar1156]

PSU LB Mike Mauti. Would be a great addition.