2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[ConnSKINS26]

^^Because that what I want by signing good players to reasonable contracts? *shrugs*

Are you being difficult on purpose? It's pretty clear what I mean. You said you'd like to sign players like Morgan to reasonable contracts. Gotcha. I said that Morgan has lots of value, but he's a role player. Even signing them to reasonable contracts, I don't think that signing role-players of Morgan's caliber on defense is going to get us where we want to be. I addition, I would hope that we don't slightly overpay them as we are Morgan. I understand that this is separate from your point.

[GWinSkins83]

If we had the money for it, then that'd be nice. Maybe Talib will come even cheaper with the suspension.

TBH, I'm not really crazy about the second and third round offerings at CB in this year's class. I like Poyer, but don't really love him. I think there would be a lot of players I'd put at BPA ahead of him. Amerson and Robey are flawed. I'm kind of meh on Justin Gilbert and Carrington Byrndom.

I love the first round corners though. Milliner is looking pretty nasty and I think he's solidifying himself as a top ten pick. Banks isn't far behind in my mind. Xavier Rhodes has a lot of ideal qualities and I see him being an even better NFL corner than he is in college. If one of those three actually fell to us in the second, I'd be all for picking them.

I don't think this is a strong draft class except for at a very few positions.

I think having extremely strong classes for three years in a row from 2010-2012 left the cupboard pretty bare for 2013 at most positions. I think LB and WR are, by far, the strongest positions in the class. A good amount of top notch talent in the early rounds plus a ton of depth throughout the class.

I think OT and interior OL are really nice and strong at the top but I think they get pretty barren after the first and second rounders go.

I think QB and RB are weak at the top this year but have a really nice chunk of mid round value in developmental guys.

I think DB is middling, a small number of good first rounders and a handful of quality midrounders out there.

I think interior DL has some really elite prospects at the top but lacks the impressive depth from the past three classes. I do think this is going to be a really solid year for 4-3 DEs with talent at the top and depth throughout, not that that really helps us directly.

I think the class will end up being about as bad as 2007 and 2009 were, but probably not as bad as 2005 or 2006.

Glad to see you on the Millner train we was debating about him and Banks about 3 weeks ago. But I feel ya I think Banks n Millner are the best in the class but Poyer is growing on me. He is good in press, man to man defense is great, and he's still a ballhawk. But I believe if we can get DRC or Talib we shouldn't even sniff CB in second because I believe no second round prospect is better than Minnifield. Probably go for TJ McDonald or a DLineman.

---------- Post added October-22nd-2012 at 02:13 AM ----------

Thinking about it, I believe my ideal draft and offseason would actually be to sign both Talib and DRC Dukes.

Then my ideal draft would be something like this:

Trade down late in the second or early in the third,
Rd 2/3: Kevin Minter
Rd 3: Quinton Patton/Da'Rick Rogers/Tavon Austin (someone like this will fall to the third, the class is too deep).
Rd 4: Montee Ball
Rd 4: Denard Robinson
Rd 5: Duke Williams/DJ Swearinger
Rd 5: Jeremiah Attaouchu
Rd 6: Malliciah Goodman
Rd 7: Rod Sweeting
Rd 7: Jay Finch

I like the idea of drafting players who are unquestionably the stars, leaders, and/or best players on their college teams. The playmakers, not the guys who sort of blend into the crowd. If you're projecting someone to a higher level of competition, the ones with that kind of personality, competitiveness, and history of success are the best bets.

Every one of those players fits that bill.

That class would be pretty awesome. Add a ton of playmakers to the offense and bolster the linebackers big time setting us up for the long term. Gotta give RGIII some excellent weapons and gotta have good linebackers to run the 3-4. Those are kind of our two central goals with long term personnel moves now that we've gotten our QB.

It's what the Giants have been doing for years after they got Eli, only swap out LBers for DEs.

Looks good but where's the Dline and RT spot? I dont think we're going for ILB either both Riley and Robinson played good yesterday. I would like to see TJ McDonald and Swearinger in the same backfield.

[ConnSKINS26]

Are you being difficult on purpose? It's pretty clear what I mean. You said you'd like to sign players like Morgan to reasonable contracts. Gotcha. I said that Morgan has lots of value, but he's a role player. Even signing them to reasonable contracts, I don't think that signing role-players of Morgan's caliber on defense is going to get us where we want to be. I addition, I would hope that we don't slightly overpay them as we are Morgan. I understand that this is separate from your point.

Reading this hours later, it came off as pretty dickish. My bad dg.

[GWinSkins83]

Don't want to chase big name FA. I would look at signing guys like Morgan for reasonable contracts. Guys that can play that are log jammed because of quality talent ahead of them or are fully recovered from injury.
I'm looking for guys that have tangible evidence of being able to play but are hungry and looking for their break.

Probably is those players most likely aren't elite talent. If we can get elite talent at a young age than do it we need it badly.

[Laron Burgundy]

I don't how people can say he's not. I don't see no sloppy mechanics. He has a compact throwing motion, Elite pocket presence, and Elite accuracy. He maybe doesn't have an Elite Arm but so didn't Ryan and Luck. I just can't see them being overwhelming better QB prospects as him.

I wouldn't say elite accuracy, certainly not among top qb choices over the past few years, but after the past 3 games you're still calling him a top pick? Now I know, people will go "he had an excellent game against texas!" but I think that is just people looking at the 4 tds, 0 ints and high completion percentage. Certainly great stats, but they breeze over his ypa, 7.7 ypa is not an elite number. His two fumbles almost cost his team that game and a reason I would argue he, again, doesn't have elite pocket presence, but it's still one of his strengths. He can't deal with free runners, certainly most qb's can't, but I don't think I've seen him beat an unblocked guy in a single game I've watched of him. He holds on to the ball far too long. Just far, far too long. That will not end well in the nfl.

I'm not saying he's a poor prospect, but he seems more like Christian Ponder as a prospect over a guy like Luck or Stafford or even Bradford or Russell. By that I mean I really don't think he's elite at any one area, not when compared to his peers of former top 10 qb choices. Obviously qb's outperform or underperform their draft position all the time (hence why I included Russell). An average nfl qb is still usually a helluva college player, and that's how I see Geno. Not a guy who will ever be called one of the league's best, but a guy who will help your team more than he hurts it.

Great players just don't shrink from challenges, and that is exactly what he has done. These past 3 games haven't been elite play. Against the toughest teams he's faced this season he's averaged 5.7 ypa with 6 tds to 4 tos, and his season is far from done with tcu and oklahoma on the slate. RG3 had 14 ypa and 13 tds to 2 tos against his 3 toughest competition. Perhaps not fair to compare the two, but when you talk about a qb deserving a top pick they really need to earn it against the top competition. 8 tds against baylor looks pretty, but baylor is the worst defense in the big 12, possibly in the ncaa.

[stevemcqueen1]

I agree with your philosphy though in no way shape or form do I want Denard on the Redskins. I do not like him at all and I do not think he will translate to WR very well. We don't need a gadget type of player like him even if he is a burner.

The thing about Denard is that he doesn't have to be a traditional wideout to make a big impact. He's a huge threat with the ball in his hands. You would line him up in the slot and backfield freely, in much the same way the Vikings and Florida used Percy Harvin.

Denard has rushed for over 4,000 yards in his career. He's one of the greatest players in the history of arguably the most storied program in CFB history (unless your like Notre Dame). Pretty crazy.

---------- Post added October-22nd-2012 at 08:14 AM ----------

I don't think Geno Smith is an elite prospect either. I think his arm strength is lesser than some of the top guys, lesser than Lucks and he's not as good an athlete or as polished a player as Luck was. I also don't think he's one of those elite playmakers that Luck and RGIII were.

What I like about him is his poise and pocket presence. He's such a patient player that is hard to rattle and he extends plays so well. He's a great scrambler within the pocket. Very fast and shifty to avoid rushers but keeps his eyes down field.

I see a lot of what I liked in Russell Wilson in Geno. I think they are similar players. Russell is obviously a lot shorter, but he's also stronger and more solidly built. Geno is taller and probably a bit faster.

I think Geno can be a good starting NFL QB but I do think he is a bit limited as a playmaker by his arm strength. Christian Ponder is a pretty good comparison for him.

[darrelgreenie]

Probably is those players most likely aren't elite talent. If we can get elite talent at a young age than do it we need it badly.

I don't think that signing role-players of Morgan's caliber on defense is going to get us where we want to be.

(I guess it also depends on your opinion of Morgan who I consider to be a better receiver then Hankerson) You can't expect a team to have 'stars' at every position. Plenty of solid defenses have what you refer to as 'role players'.
We have a lack of talent at a few positions that would be upgraded by merely having league average production.

We have limited resources. The FO must be judicious with how and who they spend their money on. Redksins fan should know this fact very well: the FA hit rate isn't that much higher then the draft. Signing a FA isn't a lock because football is such a team oriented game that the FA you sign from one team might not be the same player you get because of the way the pieces fit together. Spending our entire offseason cap on a couple of 'name' players just doesn't guarntee quality and it doesn't seem like the right way to address the holes in the secondary long term.

[stevemcqueen1]

Morgan makes 5 million a year though. He's been a very good blocker, his catch rate is good, and he's a serious YAC threat. But I think 5 million per year is too much money for his current rate of production as a pass catcher. He's only got 18 catches and 217 yards through seven games so far. At this rate, he'll only get to around 500 yards without really stepping up his level of production down the stretch. We need him to produce more as a receiver to justify his contract.

[darrelgreenie]

(2) David Amerson CB/ Jordan Poyer CB
(3) Duke Williams FS
(4) James Hurst OT
(5) Silas Redd RB
(6) Joseph Fauria TE
(8) LB

[GWinSkins83]

(I guess it also depends on your opinion of Morgan who I consider to be a better receiver then Hankerson) You can't expect a team to have 'stars' at every position. Plenty of solid defenses have what you refer to as 'role players'.
We have a lack of talent at a few positions that would be upgraded by merely having league average production.

We have limited resources. The FO must be judicious with how and who they spend their money on. Redksins fan should know this fact very well: the FA hit rate isn't that much higher then the draft. Signing a FA isn't a lock because football is such a team oriented game that the FA you sign from one team might not be the same player you get because of the way the pieces fit together. Spending our entire offseason cap on a couple of 'name' players just doesn't guarntee quality and it doesn't seem like the right way to address the holes in the secondary long term.

Im sorry but if its a way to get a player going into his prime that is already top 10 in the league than you try and get him. Im not advocating splurge but we need help now too. I won't waste these early years of RG3 even though he's a rookie. He's gamed and primetime now. Let's just say this if we had Brandon Carr and some other safety rightnow we probably would be atleast 5-2 rightnow.

[Warpath11]

The thing about Denard is that he doesn't have to be a traditional wideout to make a big impact. He's a huge threat with the ball in his hands. You would line him up in the slot and backfield freely, in much the same way the Vikings and Florida used Percy Harvin.

I'd love to see Robinson lined up in the backfield in the triple option look (instead of Banks or in some cases instead of Young). That would be a headache on any defense. Grain of salt here but lets see how successful our option game is once d-coordinators have taken a good long look at it. This season Carolina is not having the same success with their read option that they had last season. Having said that I think our option attack is more multiple in packages than Carolina's ever was so it may stay a step ahead(and our QB talent is more superior, IMO) , also you have to imagine RGIII will only improve as a traditional pocket passer as he develops which will only make the option game that much more daunting to stop.

[GWinSkins83]

(2) David Amerson CB/ Jordan Poyer CB
(3) Duke Williams FS
(4) James Hurst OT
(5) Silas Redd RB
(6) Joseph Fauria TE
(8) LB

We have 2 5th round picks.

[darrelgreenie]

Morgan makes 5 million a year though. He's been a very good blocker, his catch rate is good, and he's a serious YAC threat. But I think 5 million per year is too much money for his current rate of production as a pass catcher. He's only got 18 catches and 217 yards through seven games so far. At this rate, he'll only get to around 500 yards without really stepping up his level of production down the stretch. We need him to produce more as a receiver to justify his contract.

To be clear my point isn't that Morgan has a good contract.

Rather my point is that Morgan is the type of player we should target and sign to reasonable contracts. And if you're looking at cost/performance at the WR how about everyone offseasn darling Garcon?

As far as Morgan's production a WR can only produce as much as they're targeted. Hank has decent stats but has been the least efficient WR on the roster. Imo we're trying to force his development at the expense of production. I doubt Moss drops the deep ball Hankerson dropped those are his forte and going back to preseason Hankerson hasn't tracked or played the deep ball well, even his long TD catch he bobbled. I bet Morgan would've powered through contact and got the 1st down where Hankerson laid down. But I digress......

[Momma There Goes That Man]

The thing about Denard is that he doesn't have to be a traditional wideout to make a big impact. He's a huge threat with the ball in his hands. You would line him up in the slot and backfield freely, in much the same way the Vikings and Florida used Percy Harvin.

Denard has rushed for over 4,000 yards in his career. He's one of the greatest players in the history of arguably the most storied program in CFB history (unless your like Notre Dame). Pretty crazy.

He dominates a traditionally slow conference in the Big 10 though and gets pretty much shut down against the better defenses he has played when he doesn't have a glaring speed advantage. I don't know that its worth a 3rd or 4th round pick to bring in someone to use in that way. It would be a nice luxury to have I guess but I don't know that those kind of resources need to be devoted to a top 3 offense right now.

[GWinSkins83]

The offseason I would go after Geno Atkins or Barwin or Red Bryant or Langford, Louis Delmas, and Talib or DRC.
Than in the draft you go
2nd-TJ McDonald FS
3rd-Cordarelle Patterson WR
4th-Jordan Reed TE
5th-Pugh T
5th-Swearinger SS
6th- BPA
7th- BPA
7th- BPA