2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[stevemcqueen1]

Remember Janzen Jackson? Same predicament as Ray Ray. Better player.

---------- Post added November-6th-2012 at 03:37 PM ----------

I like Robert Lester.

Typical Alabama overachiever. Smart, fundamentally sound football player that doesn't miss a lot of tackles or give up a lot of big plays. Pretty much the definition of "safety."

He's got good NFL size and some sneaky athleticism. He's not overly powerful or overly fast but he's instinctive and he's a good runner with natural balance that allows him to play faster than he is. I doubt he times well and I think that will push his draft stock down.

He does have good range. He walks over and single covers the slot and he plays both the deep half and plays as the single deep safety in cover one and three. He can also play in the box and is a solid run support safety. He's not a striker, but he's a good fundamental wrap up tackler that takes good angles and breaks down when he hits.

I think he's a versatile safety that can play both positions, but probably favors the deep role based on his college usage. I think he's got starters upside and would be a nice mid round pick.

[SemperFi Skins]

Sorry to repost...

Dukes or whoever, how do you feel about Reid Fragel out of Ohio State? Kids got a lot of potential as a quick RT but needs to work on his power and put some weight on that 6'8 frame. He's a converted TE which woulds provide versatility in the run game. I don't hold him even close to Fluker, Lewan, Joekel, etc. but he could be a sleeper in the mid rounds and potential starter with the right OLine coach. More coaches are loving that taller, Nate Solder type. How does he fit in the ZBS?

---------- Post added November-6th-2012 at 04:02 PM ----------

Im also wondering if we can get a starting caliber SS in the draft, if we'd take a shot on a FS someone like John Boyett out of Oregon as an UDFA. Kids got heart and is the most competitive kid i've ever seen on the field. He's out the remaining 2012 season with knee surgeries but if checks out O.K. from the doctors (he's being operated on by the same docs that work with the LA Dodgers) he could be one hell of a player. He was slotted as a 2nd rounder prior to injury. Definitely a sure tackler and winner.

If you guys havent noticed... I focus more on sleepers and underrated players lol

[Dukes and Skins]

Haven't had a chance to watch him play. The name to watch now for OT's is Kyle Long from Oregon

[stevemcqueen1]

Monk what do you make of DJ Fluker?

I'm consistently baffled by him.

I watch him and his highs are pretty impressive. But then his lows will be the opposite.

Sometimes I see a king sized tackle with a prototype build who has rare ability to win at the LoS, particularly at the point of attack. I see a player who slides pretty well and is so big he walls off college rushers with ease. He is a dangerous man when he gets to run and get in front of plays down field. He extends his arms well and when he gets his hands on defenders, he almost always wins. He's just really good at controlling his opponents with his hands because of his ridiculous power. He has nice ability to block on the run and he does a surprisingly good job hitting moving targets. He's so powerful he can finish blocks even completely off balance at the college level. He's a nasty drive blocker and he can be pretty quick off the snap. He's a very aggressive and nasty run blocker.

But I also see a player who struggles at times to redirect against clever rushers with inside out moves. I don't think his quickness or agility is top notch, and outside speed will beat him enough to keep him on the right side in the NFL. I see inconsistency every game pretty much. He'll lunge and waist bend and has probably gotten away with bad technique too often because of his natural giftedness. He'll be late off the snap from time to time and can be really vulnerable to jukes from quick rushers because of this. He will slip off blocks from not maintaining good hand usage.

Sometimes I see a blue chipper and first rounder, sometimes I see a guy who'll struggle with pass protection on the right side and looks like a midrounder.

What do you think?

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

But I also see a player who struggles at times to redirect against clever rushers with inside out moves. I don't think his quickness or agility is top notch, and outside speed will beat him enough to keep him on the right side in the NFL. I see inconsistency every game pretty much. He'll lunge and waist bend and has probably gotten away with bad technique too often because of his natural giftedness. He'll be late off the snap from time to time and can be really vulnerable to jukes from quick rushers because of this. He will slip off blocks from not maintaining good hand usage.

I think his career will depend a lot on what team and coach gets their hands on him. It seems like his issues are ones that can be coached out of him - technique inconsistency, hand inconsistency, maybe up and down effort? I don't really like coaching technique out of guys, but if he pans out he's going to win the vast majority of his matchups even at this level, and having a guy like that on the other side of Trent will make our offensive line one of the best in football.

Honestly I'd like him here if he fell to the 2nd. He seems like a classic Shanahan boom/bust OT pick. Really reminds me of another massive SEC tackle with some of the same issues that Shanny got a few good years out of, George Foster.

[Monk4thaHALL]

Im also wondering if we can get a starting caliber SS in the draft, if we'd take a shot on a FS someone like John Boyett out of Oregon as an UDFA ...

He was slotted as a 2nd rounder prior to injury.

Boyett was playing SS in that Aliotti 3-4 scheme for Oregon. That's where I'd play him, not FS.

And if I remember correct he was considered more like a 4th round to CBS and Draft Scout, prior to the injury and surgery. He's still floating between 6th and UDRFA.

It all depends on offseason workouts and drills and measurables.

Anyway, yeah, he's good. He obviously has embraced the fact that he's a bit on the small side, undersized and yet adopted that hustle and 100% effort thing. Above average physicality too. At first look I saw a little bit of Weddle in him.

He's a tick smaller, not as long as Weddle and less muscular. And Weddle had great natural return ability when at Utah. When the ball was in his hands he transformed into a damn good offensive player, came alive. You know, Weddle also has great instincts for intercepting a pass - it's really a disservice to compare him.

So, not on EW level but a vague shadow, reminiscent.

You know his (boyett) coverage plays, where he's in cover 2 and reads a route well, flies to sideline and breaks up a pass - it all looks very SS esque. I think the scheme was a good marriage for him. I think boyett benefited from the scheme and the players around him, to an extent, whereas with Weddle he was the force, the factor.

[Dukes and Skins]

DJ Fluker is literally the most confusing OT to watch. He'll put up a game like he did vs LSU, then he'll go out and look like a 5th round guy. He's got the talent and he's someone who has major talent, but if it was him or Oday Aboushi? I'm taking Aboushi

[stevemcqueen1]

DJ Fluker is literally the most confusing OT to watch. He'll put up a game like he did vs LSU, then he'll go out and look like a 5th round guy. He's got the talent and he's someone who has major talent, but if it was him or Oday Aboushi? I'm taking Aboushi

That's exactly how I feel too.

I go with Aboushi because he's consistent. You know what you're getting with him. He's a leader, he checks off all the right intangibles, he fits here, he runs well, can blow up guys when run blocking on the move, he protects well. You're getting a probable "B" level player from him--a good starter who wins most of his matchups.

Fluker is so much tougher. You're getting a possible "A" level player with him IMO. Someone who can be an elite level starter that's a universal mismatch, but he's so much less likely to realize his potential than Aboushi is IMO.

Sometimes I watch Fluker and think, "Man, I really want that guy on my team." Other times I watch him and think, "Ugh, he'd be no better than Jammal Brown was." Giving up pressures to speed off the edge and inconsistency run blocking.

But all that natural talent is still so appealing. Fluker looks like he was made by scientists designed specifically to play OT in the NFL. You see him get out and completely maul guys in the running game, do amazing things like block players as he's falling down, completely swallow up outside rushers in his gigantic frame and then they never have a chance of getting free. It leaves an impression.

Aboushi seems to be exactly what we need at the RT position. But just a bit ago, I was talking about how our biggest fundamental problem was a lack of elite talent that can make negatives into positives, bust schemes, and create mismatches for almost all of your opponents. The potential to be that kind of player is where I think Fluker has Aboushi beat.

I don't know, if I were in charge, I would probably take Aboushi over him. I wouldn't have the guts to take that risk of Fluker over Aboushi. But man, I'm also a sucker for upside. I could really get behind Fluker if this FO took him.

Plus you've got to think that some of Fluker's weaknesses in Pass Pro could be really masked by high level coaching and getting a QB with elite athleticism and ability to extend plays. The fan base would have to be patient with Fluker and realize he's going to have ugly plays. They'd have to know not to fixate on those plays and give them undue importance, because they're going to be balanced out by a ton of other plays where Fluker absolutely mauls his guy.

[wilco_holland]

If we are talking OT's I like Dallas Thomas and Xavier Nixon. Think both guys would be possible (as in draft range) and fit the scheme.

[Dukes and Skins]

If we are talking OT's I like Dallas Thomas and Xavier Nixon. Think both guys would be possible (as in draft range) and fit the scheme.

I like Dallas as well, but I almost wonder if he'll stay at OG in the NFL. Nixon has always been a high upside guy who would be a very solid 4th round pick

[DogofWar1]

I think when it comes to OL, consistency has to be valued very highly, considering all it takes is one missed assignment to give up a sack, having a guy whose lows make him look like a mid-to-late rounder does not bode well. I'd put Fluker on a list of guys who to avoid before the 4th, but feel really really good if he somehow falls that far. Maybe consider him in the 3rd if he's there.

Walterfootball did another mock, and they had us going Vaccaro in the 2nd and Da'Rick Rogers in the 3rd. Ignoring the fact that we need a RT, Vaccaro and Rogers would be awesome picks. Vaccaro can probably start immediately, or, if we acquire solid talent, he's starter ready depth at a position where we desperately need it. Rogers meanwhile, would be another solid WR threat, and would force Hank and Morgan to play better or expect a pink slip.

The one thing I might change is that Aboushi was still on the board in the 3rd when we picked Rogers in their mock, I might flip those, or go Amerson in the 2nd and Lester in the 3rd.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

The question then becomes: do we need an A level player at RT? Obviously, it'd be awesome to have one. And Fluker can't play LT so he's never going to cost all that much. But still, Aboushi is a pretty safe pick, and even a B level player replacing Polumbus makes our OL so much better. But if Fluker pans out we could have the best OL in football with a solid interior and two dominating tackles, especially if Kory's down play this year is just a product of him recovering from the ACL (he's still been very good at pass pro and the scheme is always going to make it easier for them in that regard).

And well, Fluker's lows seem fixable, and his highs alone probably make him an improvement over Polumbus.

I'd love to get Amerson 2nd and Fluker 3rd if you're looking for raw upside and potential impact production down the road.

Also do you think the guy from MSU, the 6'6 280 pound TE, can play tackle? Can't remember his name atm.

[FrFan]

Remember Janzen Jackson? Same predicament as Ray Ray. Better player.

I'm trying to make a draft selection here. Since I don't have much time to watch NCAAF and that you do have much more knowledge than I do on the matter, what is your opinion on my I should say Extreme selection ?
I had a problem with the DE position, I wanted to find a good pass rusher but I couldn't find one, I wish we had another mid round pick. I copied and pasted my answer from another thread.

I would part ways with those players mostly due to our 2013 cap situation:
DHall, Moss, Fletcher ( it pains me to put him here), Cooley, Brown (injuries), Merriweather (injuries), Doughty, Williams.

Free Agents wish list: RT Brandon Albert, CB DRC, FS Jaryus Byrd ( I'm not sure we can afford him even with the above cuts).

Draft: I would go for a Risk/Reward strategy in the late rounds, trying to find the Janoris Jenkins and Vontaze Burfict type of players.
The first two picks would be a WR+S or the other way around.
2nd: WR Marquess Wilson 6-4/183 or FS Kenny Vaccaro 6-1/218
3rd: A Safety to choose from: Bacarri Rambo 6-0 210, Shawn Williams 6-1/218, Robert Lester 6-2/206, or WR Da'Rick Rogers 6-3/208
4th: ILB Andrew Jackson 6-1/265 (maybe a Ray Lewis type of a LB)
5th: OT Seantrel Henderson 6-8/345
5th: CB Tyrann Mathieu CB 5-9/175 Risk/Reward
6th: SS Ray Ray Armstrong 6-4/220 Risk/Reward (I know you don't like him, but I couldn't help)
6th: TE Jake Stoneburner 6-5/245
7th/UDFA: CB Greg Reid 5-8/188 (depending on injury recovery) High Risk/Reward

[stevemcqueen1]

I like Dallas as well, but I almost wonder if he'll stay at OG in the NFL. Nixon has always been a high upside guy who would be a very solid 4th round pick

I think Thomas stays at OG. Moving a college guard to NFL tackle is counter-intuitive to me.

I think you could see Nixon move to OG in the NFL as well.

---------- Post added November-7th-2012 at 01:13 PM ----------

The one thing I might change is that Aboushi was still on the board in the 3rd when we picked Rogers in their mock, I might flip those, or go Amerson in the 2nd and Lester in the 3rd.

They're off on Aboushi. He's going to go in the first or early second round most likely. Too good, too clean, too valuable of a position. Starting caliber OTs from big programs that can play LT go early. I could see Da'Rick Rogers getting pushed into the third because of his off field stuff, but he's really a first or second round talent. I'm thinking second for him.

I think there might be no top ten receivers taken this year, but then there will be a huge run on receivers from the mid first to the end of the second. During that span, I think it will be the most drafted position.

I think Fluker ends up somewhere in the 1st or 2nd round. I think the 3rd is probably his floor. He's just too big and too athletic. When I first started thinking of comparisons for Fluker, I thought about James Carpenter and Andre Smith, those big power tackles Alabama seems to always have. But he's a different athlete than either of them. Not quite as quick laterally as Smith, but a better runner and more coordinated looking athlete than both. His body type is very different than theirs were. They had that sloppy looking kind of Pace/Roaf build, kind of like Trent does. Fluker is more columnar and toned but with ridiculously broad shoulders and big base. He's just an enormous hulk. He can carry 330 to 340 pounds naturally, without looking unconditioned and fat. When you combine that level of size with his ability to run, you get a guy whose floor is somewhere in the early rounds IMO.

I like Vaccaro. I like his excellent size and his playmaking instincts. I like his versatility to play multiple positions too. But if given the choice between him and Fluker, I probably go Fluker. For one thing, Vaccaro has probably put out worse tape this season than Fluker has, he's had an inconsistent year. For another, it's much easier to find a starting safety than a starting OT. OTs are like corners. You get the rare exception of the mid to late round developmental gem becoming a quality starter every once in a while. But for the most part, you get what you pay for at this position. And the good OTs almost never hit FA while they are still good.

Looking at it simply, an impact caliber 340 pounder trumps an impact caliber (non QB) 220 pounder in his ability to effect the game. But I also think Fluker's potential at his position is probably higher than Vaccaro's at his own. I mean you line up opposite Fluker and he's scary looking. He's probably won many of his battles through HS and college before the ball is even snapped because of how intimidating he looks.

[stevemcqueen1]

The question then becomes: do we need an A level player at RT? Obviously, it'd be awesome to have one. And Fluker can't play LT so he's never going to cost all that much. But still, Aboushi is a pretty safe pick, and even a B level player replacing Polumbus makes our OL so much better. But if Fluker pans out we could have the best OL in football with a solid interior and two dominating tackles, especially if Kory's down play this year is just a product of him recovering from the ACL (he's still been very good at pass pro and the scheme is always going to make it easier for them in that regard).

And well, Fluker's lows seem fixable, and his highs alone probably make him an improvement over Polumbus.

I'd love to get Amerson 2nd and Fluker 3rd if you're looking for raw upside and potential impact production down the road.

You make good points, but I think Fluker probably ends up in the second round.

I was thinking about it and I've just settled on the conclusion that I'd love to get an "A" player at any position at this point, except maybe full back. Or OLB, where we've already got two young high draft picks that need to be playing every snap. And QB and LT where we've already got guys with that level of potential of course.

I'd absolutely jump on drafting him if he were an ILB, WR, CB, S, OT, OG, TE, or HB.

If given the choice between Fluker and Amerson, I would go Amerson though. I think he's got the potential to be the better player, more potential to make game changing plays. Plus CB is arguably a more valuable position than RT. It's at least as valuable anyway, and you're just as unlikely to find good outside starters in FA at CB as OT.

I still don't know who I would take if given a choice between Fluker and Aboushi though. Aboushi has had some games this year where he's been absolutely dominant. Plus I feel confident saying he's got the type of intangibles you would love to add to your locker room, from a chemistry point of view.

Also do you think the guy from MSU, the 6'6 280 pound TE, can play tackle? Can't remember his name atm.

Not sure. I'd have to watch him block. I think it's a hard transition for guys to make to tackle (from any position) if they don't have CFB experience at the position.

---------- Post added November-7th-2012 at 01:54 PM ----------

Draft: I would go for a Risk/Reward strategy in the late rounds, trying to find the Janoris Jenkins and Vontaze Burfict type of players.
The first two picks would be a WR+S or the other way around.
2nd: WR Marquess Wilson 6-4/183 or FS Kenny Vaccaro 6-1/218
3rd: A Safety to choose from: Bacarri Rambo 6-0 210, Shawn Williams 6-1/218, Robert Lester 6-2/206, or WR Da'Rick Rogers 6-3/208
4th: ILB Andrew Jackson 6-1/265 (maybe a Ray Lewis type of a LB)
5th: OT Seantrel Henderson 6-8/345
5th: CB Tyrann Mathieu CB 5-9/175 Risk/Reward
6th: SS Ray Ray Armstrong 6-4/220 Risk/Reward (I know you don't like him, but I couldn't help)
6th: TE Jake Stoneburner 6-5/245
7th/UDFA: CB Greg Reid 5-8/188 (depending on injury recovery) High Risk/Reward

Some of those guys I can't speak to because I haven't seen them. I don't think Seantrel Henderson will end up coming out this year. I personally wouldn't draft Ray Ray Armstrong because I don't think he's a high upside player. Marquess Wilson will probably go in the mid rounds at the earliest, I see his situation as being similar to Mike Williams's at Syracuse. I also think the 5th is higher than I'd take Matthieu. I think he was a mid rounder before his off field issues came up. After missing football for a year and repeated troubles with marijuana, I wouldn't draft him until the late sixth or seventh rounds.

I think you get into a good range for safeties in the third and fourth. I like Lester more than the alternatives, but the Georgia guys have been good this year too. I favor Duke Williams too, and I think Elam would be a nice mid round pick. But Da'Rick Rogers would top all of them for me if he were available.