2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[Kostaskins]

Tcu's de freshman devonte fields wow ! 240 lbs too he just made a hell of a move back to back plays vs k state

[U C S D SkinsFan]

Is there anyway TJ McDonald ends up being there in the 2nd? I really want us to pick up a ballhawk S that will deliver kill shots b/c of personal motivation and not a money pool. I want either TJ McDonald, Eric Reid, or Kenny Vaccaro, and Ray Ray as a UDFA. With Chase & Bernstein back next season our DBs will be scary!

I really hope our front office doesn't think like you lol 2 rookie cbs, undrafted and 7th rd pick, coming off season ending surgeries and a rookie 2nd round safety is not going to make our secondary scary...we might get shredded even more than this year. I hope we draft a safety, but we're gonna have to address our CB position in FA just like Dallas did this year. I don't think we'll find studs there in the late rounds.

[GWinSkins83]

McCalebb would be a good option for the change of pace back for Morris.

[gorebd82]

Watt was highly productive at Wisconsin and absolutely wrecked the combine. Kerrigan was projected lower than we took him, has average to above average physical attributes, and was more of an overachiever at Purdue. Watt was getting consistently mocked in the top 10-15 by draft day, Kerrigan was generally mocked in the 19-25 ranges. Now that's not really the best indicator, but it seems pretty clear that Watt had the potential to be a dominant player, while Kerrigan was drafted to be merely "productive".

It's the same thinking that leads you to take Jarvis Jenkins over Stephen Paea - sometimes you need to swing for physical upside because you're more likely to get a stud player.

Watt was projected to go just where he went. He was a very similar prospect to Adam Carriker, but actually more raw because he left his previous school (Central Michigan I believe) as a TE and walked on at Wisconsin. He had very little DL experience on a college level. He was a major risk.

Kerrigan was actually projected to go just where he went also. Most projections had him going to the Jags. He was highly productive and led the country in TFLs and was Purdue's best pass rusher ever.

At the time of our pick, Robert Quinn was actually the best player available. But he was high risk too. He had a tumor in high school and had sat out the year after a suspension. He looked stiff in LB drills and Kerrigan actually tested just as we'll at the combine. We took a good calculated risk at the time with both guys on the board by trading back. I believe we would've actually taken Quinn, but Spags is a greedy bastard when it comes to DEs.

As for taking Jarvis, there was a big DL run in the late 1st and early 2nd. Our three options were Jarvis, Paea, and Marvin Austin. Austin was also coming off suspension, had questionable motor, and was considered a major risk. Paea had just torn his meniscus at the Senior Bowl. Jarvis was a prospect gaining momentum after strong workouts and it was rumored that the Pats were really high on him. Jarvis was the logical choice. In camp and in preseason games he looked dominant, including tossing Trent around, it's just a complete stroke of bad luck that he tore his ACL. And completely ironic that Paea has been completely healthy.

There was also a lot of question about the day 2 OLB prospects and they have panned out way better than expected. Brooks Reed was considered a high motor guy who might not be athletic enough to play OLB. Justin Houston was a first round talent where he had real character issues and questions about his ability to play OLB that dropped him all the way to the 3rd. So to say picking him would've been the smart move is complete hindsight. Ayers was interesting and someone that I personally like because of his flexibility to play inside or outside, but he's really a 4-3 strong side OLB a la Marcus Washington. Bruce Carter was another one of those UNC guys and coming off injury. Plus we had Fletch and were high on Riley.

So looking back is all fine and dandy, but we made the best picks at that time. We also moved backed to get a WR and other picks. We can't really judge that 2nd and 3rd round pick yet. It's common understanding that players don't get back to their previous level until the second year after an ACL (as amazing as AP and Charles are, they're not 100%). It's also known that most WRs get it in year 3. So give me a shout next season when we've had a realistic timeline to evaluate two guys that have a combined 17 starts. And Kerrigan is way better than Reed or Houston or Carter or Ayers. He's probably the best 3-4 LOLB after Woodley.

[NLC1054]

"Yay, we have J.J Watt, Justin Houston/Sam Acho/Stephen Paea/Torrey Smith, and we used our lower round picks to get a little extra depth, though not as much as we could have gotten otherwise!"

Every single one of those guys played like a rookie in their first full season---good, not great.

Now you're turning around complaining that our guys who are playing their first full years aren't as good as guys with more experience in their second year.

Torrey Smith was rawer than cookie dough coming out of Maryland. His production in his rookie year is pretty similiar to Hank--- Hank has 38 yards per game, Torrey Smith had 47. Hank catches about 3 balls a game, Torrey smith caught about 3 balls a game. The main edge Torrey Smith has in in the touchdown apartment, and 3 of the 4 touchdowns that Smith caught in his first 9 weeks came in one game versus an altogether terrible Rams team.

According to you, if Torrey Smith had that kind of season here, we would have already been declaring him the new Michael Westbrook/Taylor Jacobs/Rod Gardner/Devin Thomas and complaining about how he was never going to be good enough. We're the kind of fans that would demand Victor Cruz get cut and then scream at the front office when he blows up for another team.

Which is why my point stands; your opinions of those players are being colored by the seasons they're having now, when for all intents and purposes, Jarvis, Hankerson, and Aldrick in particular are all playing their rookie seasons.

[darrelgreenie]

What is logical about a 34 DL that doesn't pass rush being added to a bunch of other 34 DL that don't pass rush?

[NLC1054]

What is logical about a 34 DL that doesn't pass rush being added to a bunch of other 34 DL that don't pass rush?

The idea that the defensive ends and nose tackle in a 3-4 defense typically aren't the primary sources of pass rush in a 3-4? And the idea that J.J Watt is in a 1-gap system where he's asked to penetrate and get up field instead of a 2-gap season where he'd be asked to suck up blocks instead? And that he only had 2 (albeit very good) years of production?

[stevemcqueen1]

People are so short sighted. Helu written off? Chillout.

Helu has missed more games than he's played. Be real man. His career is hanging by a thread here. His lack of availability has been a serious detriment to the team, particularly considering how we traded up to get him. If he gets hurt again next year he's gone.

[GWinSkins83]

Helu has missed more games than he's played. Be real man. His career is hanging by a thread here. His lack of availability has been a serious detriment to the team, particularly considering how we traded up to get him. If he gets hurt again next year he's gone.

You be real. This is his second year. I mean come on now. You people are getting ridiculous with this players not panning out in their second year. Straight up ridiculous.

[MrJL]

the way Mike Shanahan goes through running backs Alfred Morris' career is hanging by a thread. let alone Roy Helu. There's no guarantee any back he brings in will be Davis or Portis. They could just as easily be Olandis Gary. Frankly one thing that annoys me about thinking about future Redskins drafts I've always sure we're going to pick one RB no matter our needs.

[stevemcqueen1]

Watt was projected to go just where he went. He was a very similar prospect to Adam Carriker, but actually more raw because he left his previous school (Central Michigan I believe) as a TE and walked on at Wisconsin. He had very little DL experience on a college level. He was a major risk.

I disagree. Watt was an obvious stud who was really behind only Nick Fairley and DaQuan Bowers that season in dominance. I can say now because I said it over and over again prior to the draft. I think I might have even ranked him ahead of Dareus. I had him ranked ahead of Von Miller and probably had him ahead of Aldon Smith, although I remember being higher on Smith than anyone else I knew of.

Watt had doubters, but I got the sense a lot of his detractors hadn't seen him play much. IIRC, Watt's career TFL numbers were as good as guys like Clayborn, Heyward, and Jordan despite the fact he was a JR.

I thought Watt would be great. I did not think the same about Kerrigan.

Kerrigan was actually projected to go just where he went also. Most projections had him going to the Jags. He was highly productive and led the country in TFLs and was Purdue's best pass rusher ever.

I think Kerrigan was a reach at the time, I saw him getting mocked in the 20's a lot. He's justified the 16th selection though. I never cared for Kerrigan as a potential 3-4 OLB at Purdue. He was an Aaron Kampman clone with stiff looking hips. He's majorly outperformed my expectations as a standup LBer. But he's exactly who he seemed as a pass rusher--crafty bull rusher and hustle guy who lacks the speed and flexibility and balance to be an elite edge rusher.

At the time of our pick, Robert Quinn was actually the best player available. But he was high risk too. He had a tumor in high school and had sat out the year after a suspension. He looked stiff in LB drills and Kerrigan actually tested just as we'll at the combine. We took a good calculated risk at the time with both guys on the board by trading back. I believe we would've actually taken Quinn, but Spags is a greedy bastard when it comes to DEs.

I think he probably was too. Quinn has that elite body control and speed to bend that edge. Plus he's monstrously strong. I actually had Quinn as my #2 player for most of that college season.

I remember the reports about how much we like Quinn that offseason. I think we probably would have taken him at 16 too. But the thing is, that guy was a top five talent. If we wanted him, we should have counted our blessings that he made it to us at 10.

As for taking Jarvis, there was a big DL run in the late 1st and early 2nd. Our three options were Jarvis, Paea, and Marvin Austin. Austin was also coming off suspension, had questionable motor, and was considered a major risk. Paea had just torn his meniscus at the Senior Bowl. Jarvis was a prospect gaining momentum after strong workouts and it was rumored that the Pats were really high on him. Jarvis was the logical choice. In camp and in preseason games he looked dominant, including tossing Trent around, it's just a complete stroke of bad luck that he tore his ACL. And completely ironic that Paea has been completely healthy.

Jenkins has gotten more mileage out of some training camp snaps and the narrow-perspectived homerism that stuff generates than anyone I can ever remember.

Jenkins was never a disruptive presence in college, never a pass rusher with next to 0 career production in that department at Clemson. Why do people so persistently expect Jenkins to suddenly morph into this disruptive force?

Paea's college film was wholly superior to Jenkins's. Paea had two seasons of complete dominance, Jenkins had four solid years being outshone by superior teammates. Jenkins was not the logical choice if you use BPA because to me, Paea was an obviously superior talent.

I wasn't crazy about Austin, but I think you could make a case he was the BPA ahead of Jenkins too. He had some pretty nice athleticism and could pass rush and work against a double team.

So looking back is all fine and dandy, but we made the best picks at that time. We also moved backed to get a WR and other picks. We can't really judge that 2nd and 3rd round pick yet. It's common understanding that players don't get back to their previous level until the second year after an ACL (as amazing as AP and Charles are, they're not 100%). It's also known that most WRs get it in year 3. So give me a shout next season when we've had a realistic timeline to evaluate two guys that have a combined 17 starts. And Kerrigan is way better than Reed or Houston or Carter or Ayers. He's probably the best 3-4 LOLB after Woodley.

Kerrigan should be better than those players because he was drafted much earlier than them. But still, Houston is pretty close to him. I don't think it was a Kerrigan vs. other LBers propostion. It was a "was the trade down worth it?" propostion, and/or Kerrigan vs. Amukamara/Jordan proposition.

Thus far, Kerrigan has been better than Jordan and Amukamara at least. Of those three, I favored Amukamara and would have picked him at 16 at the time. That kid would have been a good fit here now in hindsight. But Kerrigan has been fine as the player we actually ended up with, I wouldn't trade him for the other options today, which is a sign of a solid pick.

Again, I think it's a good thing Kerrigan is the guy we saw in college, because he was an overachieving turnover machine.

But I think it's clear now the trade down was a mistake. The value gained from it is negligible IMO. We got a bunch of replacement caliber players from it, yippee. PFF graded JJ Watt as the best player in the NFL this season. Kerrigan isn't even remotely as good as him right now.

I disagree that we made the best picks at our other selections at the time. There were several of us who didn't like specific picks, said as much. In some cases we've been right so far, about both the guys we ended up with and the guys we favored that we passed on (Jenkins vs. Paea in my case).

Also, Clay Matthews is a much better LOLB than Kerrigan IMO.

---------- Post added November-10th-2012 at 11:02 PM ----------

You be real. This is his second year. I mean come on now. You people are getting ridiculous with this players not panning out in their second year. Straight up ridiculous.

Helu has four games of work in his career. He's been valuable to us one month and then he got hurt. He got hurt again this season and got put on IR, meaning he'll have done almost nothing for us going into his third year. Just making the roster next season should be considered an achievement for him at this point. If he gets hurt yet again, he's gone. It was the same story with Malcolm Kelly.

---------- Post added November-10th-2012 at 11:22 PM ----------

The idea that the defensive ends and nose tackle in a 3-4 defense typically aren't the primary sources of pass rush in a 3-4? And the idea that J.J Watt is in a 1-gap system where he's asked to penetrate and get up field instead of a 2-gap season where he'd be asked to suck up blocks instead? And that he only had 2 (albeit very good) years of production?

Watt's film made it clear he was an elite talent, two years of production or no.

Watt's ability was obvious to me. I'm not trying to toot my own horn for picking up on it. I think anyone who actually watched him would have seen the same. He lit up the screen.

Also, it was clear Watt had value for 3-4 defenses. He's arguably the best player in the NFL right now at this very moment. A guy like that could play in any scheme. And he's not just a one gap pass rusher. He's an elite all around player and total force.

Justin Smith and Shaun Ellis had just shown what a scheme wrecking force an elite 34 DE could be. Haloti Ngata had been flashing that ability for a couple of years.

I think it's a complete fallacy that there is no room for an elite pass rushing DE in our scheme. That offseason, most of our fan base was parroting this notion--for various reasons (I think people mostly wanted to desperately believe losing Haynesworth made sense schematically and wasn't simply a failure in management by Shanny). I thought the notion was dumb then and I feel vindicated today. I sense most of our fanbase has realized how ridiculous and stupidly and arbitrarily self limiting our scheme must be if we can't use a pass rushing DL, and that relying entirely on the two OLBs for pressure was untenable.

---------- Post added November-10th-2012 at 11:25 PM ----------

That was a hell of a play from Ansah.

He's looking like a first rounder.

---------- Post added November-10th-2012 at 11:53 PM ----------

1.) Hank doesn't have bad hands. If you went back and charted every pass that Hankerson has dropped (and it's worth mentioning that he has not dropped nearly as many passes as people like to pretend he has), it's the same thing; turn up field before he catches the pass. Take his eye off the ball, look upfield, drop. It's got nothing to do with his hands. It's the same mistake that just about every young receiver makes. Hell, it's a mistake I see guys like Mike Wallace and Victor Cruz make. It's the same mistake that stalled Hank's growth his first two years at Maimi, that he turned around and fixed his last two years at Miami.

What you're describing is bad hands man. Any NFL receiver can catch a ball just pitching and catching in the back yard. Having good hands means having good concentration, because that's what it comes down to.

Hankerson had bad hands and problems with drops his entire career at Miami. It was just less pronounced and damning his final year than his previous seasons.

2.) Just as you could excuse Redskin fans of over-valuing the players they have, it's just as easy to say that whenever the team hits a rough patch, people have a tendancy to go into meltdown mode and thing our whole roster is garbage and question every move we've made, fairly and unfairly. And then we tend to get jealous at teams who are much better than us having players dominating while we're till trying to develop guys and no one has really exploded. Yet.

Why are those teams so much better than us? They've drafted and developed more elite talent than we have.

It doesn't take long after a great draft or two to start winning. Look at the 49ers today. They were garbage and then they had amazing draft classes in 2010 and 2011 and suddenly they're the most talented team in the NFL. Same for Houston.

We all sit here and ask "what would've happened if we had stayed at number 10 and drafted J.J Watt?". Then congrats, we'd probably have a disruptive player on the interior of the line, with no outside linebacker pressure from the other side.

Which would be mountains better than what we've got now. Watt is a far superior player to Kerrigan BTW. And make no mistake, having two elite OLBs is a luxury almost no other NFL teams enjoy/need.

Sticking at 10 and not trading down to 16 means we don't have depth. It means we have a lot less leverage to move around and get anymore picks. It means we're back to having a 1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th and 7th round pick to try to improve our football team with, which means less players to develop, and more digging into the well to pick up undrafted free agents and the same kind of veterans that everyone was hoping we'd avoid. You think this team looks bad now? You think this teams has less talent now? Imagine this team much older, with even less cap space, and even less depth, imagine being unable to jettison some of the dead weight we had still on the franchise 2010, and then come talk to me about how we should've taken J.J Watt in the first round.

You are seriously overvaluing our depth. These guys are replacement level players. Meaning you can reasonably expect most low level free agent veterans to come in and match their production and ability level.

Making an argument for the value of depth would be a lot more convincing if we had Probowlers or excellent starters waiting in the wings like the Giants. We've got Dejon Gomes and Mo Hurt and Evan Royster.

Serviceable Depth is orders of magnitude cheaper and easier to find than finding elite players. Building depth should NEVER take priority over acquiring elite talent. That would be stupid team building.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

I think it's a complete fallacy that there is no room for an elite pass rushing DE in our scheme. That offseason, most of our fan base was parroting this notion--for various reasons (I think people mostly wanted to desperately believe losing Haynesworth made sense schematically and wasn't simply a failure in management by Shanny). I thought the notion was dumb then and I feel vindicated today. I sense most of our fanbase has realized how ridiculous and stupidly and arbitrarily self limiting our scheme must be if we can't use a pass rushing DL, and that relying entirely on the two OLBs for pressure was untenable.

Do you think that had we hired a one-gap pass rushing 3-4 coach like what they have in Houston, we would have gotten more out of Albert? The guy was a malcontent with ****ty work ethic, guys like that don't usually stick on Shanahan teams. But he was an elite talent. The thing is that he went to schemes that fit his skillset, and he still washed out. I mean, Bill Belichick gave him a shot, and he still couldn't hack it, and if Belichick can't fix a guy, nobody can.

I think the scheme issue was more of an excuse by Albert than anything. But the real error was not shipping him out for a 3rd; we got pennies on the dollar instead.

[NLC1054]

Serviceable Depth is orders of magnitude cheaper and easier to find than finding elite players. Building depth should NEVER take priority over acquiring elite talent. That would be stupid team building.

Like I said; most of this "we could've gotten <insert player who just so happens to be having a great season here> instead of trading down" talk is based less on how our guys are playing and more on envy of other teams and impatient.

The 49ers didn't just have a couple good drafts, in general the 49ers have always been pretty damn good at getting talent; they just never had a coaching staff worth anything to put it together. The 49ers didn't just show up in 2011 being good, they had been slowly building a foundation of talent for years. It just took Harbaugh and a better managed and coached Alex Smith to finally get them over the hump. And most of the guys didn't come and and become explosive players right away.

And I know this is the part where Aldon Smith gets bought up, but I'm always going to want to draft an every down player over a guy who only comes in to rush the passer. I won't say it's easy to do what he did his rookie year, but with a secondary that good and a d-line that dominant and fourth other linebackers to worry about, two of which are playing at an elite level, it's not a surprise Aldon Smith gets free rushes at the quarterback.

The Steelers have Harrison and Woodley as their two pass rushers. Clay Matthews got stonewalled in 2011 and the Packers made it a point to go out and draft Nick Perry to put opposite him this year. The Ravens have tried to put another player opposite Terrell Suggs while now; Jarrett Johnson was okay for them, then they tried to draft Sergio Kindle to come in and be the pass rusher opposite Suggs. There's an idea that's been floated around that the Redskins were "silly" for taking another outside linebacker. Quite frankly, that's bull****, since three of the best 3-4 defenses, two of which have the best 3-4 coordinators in the game, both have been trying to find two outside rushers.

The idea that you have to wait until the team gets good before you start to build depth on your football team is silly and misguided. Our depth wasn't just bad; it was wretched. That's the whole point. People shrug it off and say "okay, our depth may not have been good, but we would've had one player." Outside of quarterbacks (occasionally), how many teams completely turn on the addition of one player?

People toss the logic of the trade down aside and then get on their high horse and say "WELL I KNEW WATT WAS GOING TO BE GOOD!". Hindsight is 20/20 and ignorance makes even those who think they're the smartest blind. There's a big combination of both going on in this thread----Watt's having a great season so it's easy to ask what might've been, and just about everyone who complains that trading down conveniently ignores how bad our depth was. They brush that aside and go "okay, well that would've fixed itself somehow but Watt would be a difference maker!"

News flash; Watt would (maybe, it's neglible with Haslett coaching this team) be a pretty good player still surrounded by mediocre talent on both sides of the ball. Most of the holes we have, we'd still have. But hey, we'd have Watt. Because one guy makes all the difference.

The fact is that almost every guy in this thread that everyone brings up as a guy we could've/should've bought in had okay production in their first full year as a starter. Robert Quinn was basically a non-factor and didn't even start until, what, halfway through his rookie season? Prince Amukamara was regularly victimized, Stephen Paea started maybe one game (according to Pro Football Reference he didn't start a single game his rookie season), Watt had similiar sack numbers to Adam friggin' Carriker and less passes defenses than Barry friggin' Cofield, in a defense that is completely different from ours.

All these guys were allowed to grow and blossom into their roles, and they are having very good sophomore seasons. But let's not sit around and pretend that they showed up day one and dominated the NFL.

This is Hankerson's first full year starting coming off injury. This Aldrick's first full year, and he didn't see the field at all. JJ is coming off an injury. Niles Paul is learning a new position. I'll give you Gomes, because at least that guy has a body of work and saw extensive playing time last year. I won't write off Helu yet. Royster might be playing himself out of job, but again; extensive playing time.

And I'm certainly not going to write off the 2012 draft when they haven't seen much time on the field either.

And can I just say that the irony of someone (or someones) talking about how bad Hankerson's hands are when they advocate drafting Denard Robinson, who has never played a snap at receiver and developing HIM into a receiver or running back based purely on the fact that he runs fast in space and having patience with a guy like that is not lost on me.

[GWinSkins83]

Yall gonna cut ties with Helu cause he got injured this year his second year? I don't even count last year because I think Mike shut him down. To save him for this year.

[Laron Burgundy]

You take the best player. Watt was the best player on the board, probably by far.

Even if we would be missing depth in the short term, the difference in value of Watt versus Kerrigan, not even taking into account their positional value (for the modern 3-4 a disruptive DE is much more important than a second rush OLB) is so great that it trumps Kerrigan + a bunch of players who are, to this point, just guys. And for the most part, that's all they'll ever be. Maybe Hankerson improves his hands and becomes the next Roddy White. Okay, cool, we might have to bring in UDFAs to fill the holes that our late round picks left. Sure we'd have one less 3rd round prospect, and several less middling prospects. And it's nice that Shanahan's picks in rounds 4-7 haven't been total washouts. But when there's a blue chip talent on the board, which Watt is, and Kerrigan, for how good he is, is not, you take the blue-chip talent.

I'd take a Watt/Hankerson draft or a Watt/Justin Houston draft with no 3rd and 4th rounder, and about half the number of Gomes-level prospects, than the draft we did have.

I think this is just an unbelievable amount of hindsight. If Watt was a blue chip prospect and far and away superior to kerrigan, he would have been drafted in the top 5. He was, by no means, a slam dunk prospect. He was a guy with intriguing upside, but you could say the same about players like Tyson Jackson or Vernon Gholston, players both drafted higher than him. Truth be told, most people had Fairley rated over him as well. I'd say by most accounts, if we're being honest, Watt was the 3rd best 3-4 de prospect in that draft and was generally considered just a tad better than Clayborn and Jordan.

But then there is the whole system fit thing. Sure, Watt would probably be great here as well, but I really don't think he would be much better than Kerrigan has been for us. Kerrigan has made a ton of plays. Certainly I don't think Watt would get defensive mvp hype in our front; we just play so differently from houston. It's like looking back and saying we should have taken Revis over Landry, nobody was calling Watt a top 5 talent. This wasn't Orakpo or Raji falling, this was a guy getting drafted in his projected draft range and then outperforming every expectation.