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[Momma There Goes That Man]

I think what the Pro-Denard crowd is missing is that we don't want him throwing the football. He is lousy at it anyway but even if he was good, why bother with it. We want Griffin throwing the ball not Banks, Denard, Portis or anybody else.

If we want WR, fine. If we want RB, fine draft one but don't draft Denard, who is not either because he has the opportunity to pass every so often. You can find an Antwan Randle El anywhere in the draft even as UDFA and most likely would find one that can catch better than DR too. It would be mind boggingly foolish to waste a 4th on him when we already run too much option and trickery on offense.

We don't know if he can catch consistently. We don't know if he can handle the abuse a RB does. Its just not worth it for essentially a gimmick player. He has elite speed/running ability and can throw a little. I just don't see where he fits into our offense that isn't to RG3's detriment.

Griffin has elite talent as a passer, don't take away his reps and give them to Denard just because you can.

[RonArtest15]

I wouldn't mind Denard here in a role like what Brad Smith did/does w/ the Jets/Bills. I just wouldn't waste anymore than a 6th round pick on him.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

I wouldn't mind Denard here in a role like what Brad Smith did/does w/ the Jets/Bills. I just wouldn't waste anymore than a 6th round pick on him.

If you want to waste a 7th rounder on him so he can take Banks spot on special teams, I'd do that. That is the only place I think he can be a difference maker though. Maybe, one day once on the team he shows he can catch or stand up to the abuse as a RB then maybe he makes a decent #4-5WR or a change of pace back for a run or two here and there. No way do I want him running option plays or WR/RB passes out of the backfield etc.

[RonArtest15]

If you want to waste a 7th rounder on him so he can take Banks spot on special teams, I'd do that. Maybe once on the team he shows he can catch or stand up to the abuse as a RB then maybe he makes a decent #4-5WR or a change of pace back for a run or two here and there. No way do I want him running option plays or WR/RB passes out of the backfield etc.

Yea...no doubt.

If he's being brought in to take over Banks' spot on ST and get a few plays here and there on offense, then I'd consider robinson. However, I totally see your point about not wasting a draft pick on a player like this. Same value might be able to be found in bringing in an UDFA.

Actually, in thnking about it...I'd much rather look for a prospect in the Dexter McCluster mold than trying to wait on Robinson to make the transition from QB to skill player. Not saying that Robinson doesn't have the athleticism to do it -because he does- but rather look at a guy who has experience as a WR, RB, ST player might fit the mold here in DC a littler better than Robinson.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Actually, in thnking about it...I'd much rather look for a prospect in the Dexter McCluster mold than trying to wait on Robinson to make the transition from QB to skill player. Not saying that Robinson doesn't have the athleticism to do it -because he does- but rather look at a guy who has experience as a WR, RB, ST player might fit the mold here in DC a littler better than Robinson.

Yep, I agree and in a similar note, watching the Falcons yesterday, I really noticed how much value Rodgers has for them and he really popped coming out of the backfield and being able to turn a 3 yard dump off into a first down or spelling Turner after he has beat up the defense.

I really think somebody like that is where we need to look at in late rounds not somebody that would be a project at RB.

[gorebd82]

Funny thing s that I don't even get to talk about the rest of the draft because of response directed at me about Denard. I think that a top FA CB is our #1 priority, even if that's our only signing. Brown's health determines how early we need to go OT. Based on that, I'm assuming we use our top pick on a RT. But regardless, I'd like to use our 4th and one of our extra day 3 picks to get another 3rd, leaving us with 7 overall picks with 3 on day 2. I'd go OT, CB, and Denard in with those three picks. But thats if someone is on the board that makes sense because they dropped. 3rd doesnt look like good value at CB and OT. With the other 4 picks, I'd say we should be targeting FS and CB as necessities and just looking at BPA at positions we have selected with the other two, except I'd be open to a late CB for the PS. So something like this:

2nd: Fluker, OT/Amerson, CB (Amerson if Brown is healthy; both seem Iike Shannybpicks with high upside, but inconsistency)
3rd: Robinson, QB (I'd rather be a round early than 1 pick too late)
4th: Pugh, OT/Xavier Nixon, OT/McFadden, CB
4th: Marquess Wilson, WR (package some day three picks, maybe a 5th and 6th)
5th: Thomas, S/Swearinger, S
6th: Tyrann Mathieu, DB
7th: BPA (preferably DE, LB, RB)

[Dukes and Skins]

I'm telling you all the more I watch DJ Swearinger, the more I really like him as a SS prospect in our scheme. Plays some CB for SC but also plays in the box and deep if needed. Would be best used up near the line and would provide a lot of versatility

[gorebd82]

This is wild to me that the thread has been focused for the last page about how we can be looking at a change of pace back, but disregard Denard. I'm not sure what he can do more than averaging 150 carries a year with a 6.2 avg and a pace of 15 TDs each season to show he can handle the workload of a change of pace RB. His only transition is taking the handoff instead of giving it.

And as for his draft range and even how he projects as a WR, there are people who do this for a living think he has enough value and chance to succeed, specifically at WR and not even weighing in RB and throwing, that he is projected as 4th rounder. That means there are quite a few people that agree with me that there is a very good chance of him transitioning and having upside much greater than 6th/7th/UDFA value.

Thinking he can't succeed is a fine position, but denying that he can even possibly succeed in the NFL when his size, speed, production, and draft projections say otherwise is not reasonable. His presence also does not change a thing we do as an offense or change a thing Robert does, it just gives us someone that can do these things better than our current offensive personnel of Banks, Royster, Helu, Aldrick can. You dont want Banks throwing the ball, but its in our playbook. The question is whether you want that pass thrown by Banks or Denard. ST contributions are just extra.

[NLC1054]

The question is whether you want that pass thrown by Banks or Denard. ST contributions are just extra.

I'd rather neither of them ever throws the football, and Banks' ass (hopefully, dear God I pray) will be gone next year anyway.

[gorebd82]

I'd rather neither of them ever throws the football, and Banks' ass (hopefully, dear God I pray) will be gone next year anyway.

I understand that's how you feel. Our coaching staff must feel different and see value in those types of plays. We did them in the past, but actually do them more frequently since RGIII and more spread concepts. So why is it not logical to think they target someone to excel in that role rather than just scrap a whole section of the playbook?

This is really the core of this discussion. Are you approaching it from what you want or actually thinking about what our team does? IMO, Denard can excel at things our team has been doing for the entire Shanny tenure and gain us much more than the current personnel. And getting him in the 3rd or 4th round to fill these roles is good value considering comparable guys like Cobb or McCluster were 2nd round picks, Best was a 1st, and Sproles took a big FA contract.

[NLC1054]

I understand that's how you feel. Our coaching staff must feel different and see value in those types of plays. We did them in the past, but actually do them more frequently since RGIII and more spread concepts. So why is it not logical to think they target someone to excel in that role rather than just scrap a whole section of the playbook?

As I've said (and you've ignored), Robert has gone to the coaching staff and told them he wants to run less of the option, zone-read and gimmicky plays. Kyle's contract is up after this season, and there's no guarantee that any new OC we bring in, even if we promote from within, is going to want to run the same things. RGIII has indicated that he wants to be more like Aaron Rodgers, and he doesn't want to be known as a gimmicky quarterback in a gimmick system. He wants to grow and develop into a drop back, rhythm passer.

I want to follow our quarterback's wishes to become that guy by putting as much every down talent around his as possible. Terrence Williams, Tavon Austin, guys like that; with Robert throwing the ball, they have a chance to be 1000 yard receivers. Guys like Kenjon Barner, or Mike Gillislee, could be factors in the pass and the run game, and could potentially start at running back in a pinch.

If we want to bring Denard in as an undrafted free agent or something, then you won't hear me say anything. But taking him with a third round pick would be a fireable offense for me, and I'm one of Shanahan's biggest supporters.

---------- Post added November-12th-2012 at 02:46 PM ----------

For those uninitiated on Zach Line...

[CoolHandLuke]

I'm telling you all the more I watch DJ Swearinger, the more I really like him as a SS prospect in our scheme. Plays some CB for SC but also plays in the box and deep if needed. Would be best used up near the line and would provide a lot of versatility

I agree. He's a sleeper pick, projected to be there in the 5-6 rounds. If that's the case I wouldn't mind picking up one of Kenny Vaccarro/Eric Reid/TJ McDonald in the 2-3, and then picking up DJ in the 5th. The one thing I like about Vaccarro & Swearinger is their ability to play FS/SS/CB. They fit every category of a true DB. They are the type of players you want in your locker room who can make players around them better as well.

[gorebd82]

As I've said (and you've ignored), Robert has gone to the coaching staff and told them he wants to run less of the option, zone-read and gimmicky plays. Kyle's contract is up after this season, and there's no guarantee that any new OC we bring in, even if we promote from within, is going to want to run the same things. RGIII has indicated that he wants to be more like Aaron Rodgers, and he doesn't want to be known as a gimmicky quarterback in a gimmick system. He wants to grow and develop into a drop back, rhythm passer.

I want to follow our quarterback's wishes to become that guy by putting as much every down talent around his as possible. Terrence Williams, Tavon Austin, guys like that; with Robert throwing the ball, they have a chance to be 1000 yard receivers. Guys like Kenjon Barner, or Mike Gillislee, could be factors in the pass and the run game, and could potentially start at running back in a pinch.

If we want to bring Denard in as an undrafted free agent or something, then you won't hear me say anything. But taking him with a third round pick would be a fireable offense for me, and I'm one of Shanahan's biggest supporters.

That's great that you feel that way. But I think it's much less likely we scrap our current concepts, the FO passes on players because of Robert's comment (which I have yet to actually see him complain about the offense), and assume that Kyle Shanahan will not be our OC next season. Are we just scrapping the whole thing? If Mike is our HC, Kyle will be here. And as for taking Denard as a UDFA, projections say he won't be around. Again, you are talking about the Skins in the image that you see fit, not based on what we are in reality.

[Skins199021]

Swearinger is a beast

[NLC1054]

And as for taking Denard as a UDFA, projections say he won't be around.

What projections?