2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[CoolHandLuke]

And do you feel the honey badger is worth a late round gamble?

I think a better late round gamble would be Ray Ray Armstrong. The other guy from the U, Telemaque(sp?) would be a good gamble as well considering he's actually playing as we speak. Both play Free Safety, but Ray Ray isn't playing this season due to a NCAA suspension.

Ray Ray is a 6'4 220 pound ball hawk FS. He's the headhunting, enforcer type that I'd love to have in our backfield. And he's big enough to cover any WR/TE in the league. If Raheem is with us next year, I think he's worth the late round gamble, as he can bring the best out of players with a troubled past.

[darrelgreenie]

What about my other question?
Do you feel we could get WR Hopkins in round 2? Will he drop? Or maybe even Woods from USC since hes dropping big time, and then get Tony Jefferson from Oklahoma in round 3? Or am I dreaming?
And do you feel the honey badger is worth a late round gamble?

To many variables for me to speculate about the other questions.
I'm not a huge Honey Badger fan, it would depends on what he runs and how he looks at the combine.
Is he gonna show up to the combine out of shape and run a bad time or did he put his nose the grindstone and work his tail off?

[stevemcqueen1]

If everything else was equal (the prospect grade out the same) I would take a CB.

Yeah. CB is a more valuable position by far than RT or S.

I think it's very difficult to find cost effective & good outside starters past the second round. They don't typically come in FA or trade unless they are ridiculously expensive or flawed. They don't usually slip past the second unless they have some physical issue or are incomplete.

You could say the same about a starting OT, but you do get more guys who develop into good starters outside the first for OT than CB. Particularly a RT where they don't have to be elite edge protectors to be good. A lot of these 300 pounders will be good athletes but they're still physically developing when they get to the NFL so you'll see them get taken later but grow into starters over a longer period of development.

Safeties are probably one of the cheapest positions in the league.

[ConnSKINS26]

To Monk (and anyone else that knows a lot about college football):
few questions:

Just out of curiosity, and I know this doesnt have to do too much with the draft but, lets say Larry Fitzgerald chooses he wants out of Arizona because he wants to win a title before he retires. Arizona, obviously, wants draft picks for him, but they have to give him up at a bargain because he wants out. Would you sacrifice this years 2nd and 3rd and next years 2nd for Fitz? I would say yes in the past, but I just dont know now days. I think we can get some great defensive players in the second round this year and next. Im also curious to hear your opinion on if we could pull the trigger on the troubled honey badger in a very late round? I think it would be more than worth it. Look how Burficit is wokring out for the Bengals, I knew he would be great. Jenkins for the Rams should have been a top 10 pick but dropped to the 2nd round. I think it would be just awesome if we could get DeAndre Hopkins (WR Clemson) in the 2nd round, and then Tony Jefferson(safety) from Oklahoma in the third. Then use the next few picks on BPA or Oline, and somehow get Honey Badger Mathieu in the 7th. I know hes got character flaws, but that kid is the next Darelle Revis.

A few things here.

If Fitz wanted out of Arizona, he wouldn't have re-signed there. He didn't have to do that. He loves it there, and if he wins, he wants it to be there.

I'd be fine with Honey Badger in the late rounds as a returner and nickleback. But his skill-set/talent level doesn't compare AT ALL with Revis. Nevermind their physique/size differences.

[Monk4thaHALL]

Would you sacrifice this years 2nd and 3rd and next years 2nd for Fitz?

No I would not. I want the draft picks.
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As per Burfict, I mean people here on ES called his (stock) demise like in septemeber or october of 2011, when most other places had him as a high draft pick. So, there were people who saw through the veil. And one should give credit where it's due, in so much as seeing that he wasn't worthy of a draft selection, let alone an early one like 1st or 2nd round.

That was verified in the draft, in reality. You know, Cincy passed on him until he went undrafted.

To be honest, I felt like I had to lay it on thick to the fans of Burfict because they seemed hell-bent to get the guy and I damn well knew that he wasn't deserving of a draft pick.

Uhm, so he went undrafted for a reason. Now, being undrafted, if you accomplish anything, you get credit big time. (And once you are in the NFL, all that stock jockeying goes out the window - it's purely up to how hard you work and if you can stay healthy).

I haven't watched him, like the way I would when trying to scout someone, but I see that he certainly has performed stats wise for cincy. I know he saw action early because the player infront of him on the depth chart had a season ending knee injury.

You know, there's little damage if an undrafted guy busts out. If he performs, you reap the innumerable benefits procured unto us by the same.

They have a track record of picking up those type of cases. So it's worked out for them and him so far.

I don't lose sleep over it though.
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The other stuff:
*(edit)
Let me just say that Jefferson is a tough read. My initial read was positive, from a pass coverage stand-point. *But that might change now.

I'm still a fan. He's got ability.

I devalued Jefferson slightly, I think 3rd round is the actual value, right now. And that just reflects how the draft has worked the last few years, safeties have been going later in the draft.

Also, I've absorbed some of the critiques about his tackling. The Okie St game shows some good solid hits and a couple of whiffs.

So it's both good and bad.

The chances are he may not even declare.

(edit) The "light in the pants" critique ... actually I'm going to stay in the minority here and say that he's shown good physicality. I like what I've seen from him, he doesn't mind contact. He's not a brute however. There is an element missing that keeps him from being a dominate force.

He had some solid hits in the Okie St game. Some of the hits have me feeling better. He sticked his nose in there a few times, especially down around the goalline 1st quarter on an open field tackle on #5. Then again in the 2nd quarter in the middle of the field on #84.

There have been moments of diving at legs. He missed a key tackle that extended a series, ended up with an Okie St. FG conversion.

In general, he has the numbers with tackles.

He's good in that hybrid CB turned FS role, because he's got good quicks and change of direction, so he can cover Slot receivers, as well as, combine some speed to cover ground in deep centerfield.

He also has blitzed some, effectively. Yet sometimes he's run himself out of the play.

So, maybe I've become lukewarm with him just because he's fallible much like a lot of guys outside the top round. Maybe I'm allowing the critique to influence me too much. I still like him. My initial read was positive. So ...

It's just a tough read with Jefferson right now.

*edit: I'm going back to watch the OU vs Okie St game to focus on him and see if I'm getting a solid read. I'll add something here ____

Ok, one of the early series:

I noticed one play where he comes up from his safety spot, back 10 to 15 yards on a QB zone read, he shows good speed on his charge and actually lead with his facemask, head up and made the tackle in space on the QB. Looked good.

Very next play was a run up the middle on a draw play. Jefferson was in two deep, he actually commits too early, charges up to a gap that was open but he completely takes himself out of the play. A releasing blocker just walls him off from pursuit with no chance to make the tackle, he sidesteps the block as well and takes himself out of the picture even more. The Okie St. RB rattles off a huge gain.

He made a decent tackle at the goalline on Randle #1. Okie St still scored the play after.

Diffwerent series:
Had a hit on #5 in the open field with decent pop. But he was definitely aiming to take out the legs.

Later series:
Totally whiffed a tackle in the open field, one-on-one in space by the sideline. Again diving at legs. The runner advanced the yard to gain, drive turned in a FG.

Playing Cover 2, differerent series:
Good stick on a pass to a WR #84, middle of field tackle.

another series:
After the game was tied at 17 all, Jefferson was in Cover 2, looked like he bit on play fake, moved up toward the LoS and the WR split to his half of the field ran Post behind him. Luckily the corner stayed with the route and deflected the pass incomplete.

He did have a decent coverage later in the drive, covering a releasing RB or something in the flats, created an incompletion.

Made a diving open-field tackle on Randle, saved a TD. Next play was a run by Randle for a TD.

halftime ...

He makes enough plays to like him, but misses enough stuff to not fall in love. That's why I had to slide him to the 3rd. I can't put him before Rambo. Again, still like him. Still like the raw clay.

... 2nd Half:

ok, WOW

Jefferson got burned. He let a HUGE pass play occur. He charges forward for some odd reason upon snap and the receiver #5 he's lined overtop just slants to a Post and Jefferson is 5 steps behind him, wide open - 75 yard TD ... First play of the 2nd Half.

Yikes not good.

Pass coverage mistakes just are automatic no-no. Even more reason to devalue ...

A few more dives at people legs and ankles.

With 5:00 minutes left in the 3rd quarter Jefferson gets called for a pass interference on 3rd & 4 at the goalline. Sets Okie St up. Jeff does make a play on 2nd down to challenge a pass to incomplete, but Okie St eventually scores.

He makes a sideline tackle that was pretty aggressive, end of 3rd quarter.

(I tell you what though, this Aaron Colvin kid is impressing me).

4th quarter:

Made a nice tackle on the scrambling OSU QB.

sidenote: OU runs SOOOOO much Cover 2.

tied at end of regulation

OT:

Jeff helps defend a pass at the goalline in OT, it was a poor pass, already probably incomplete but he helps nudge the receiver away from gathering himself to catch the tipped ball. It keeps OSU to a FG attempt and then OU scores in OT to win the game
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All in all: Again he's tough to read. He makes some plays, but doesn't dominate. There's enough bad to weigh on you but there's also good. I guess I say hold the stock. Don't buy, but don't sell either.

(damn I spent a lot of time with this) I edited this post a bunch on the Jefferson stuff. (11 pm on Nov 27) The rest is original from post timestamp.
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As per WR - there are lots of guys I like. I think Hopkins is 1st round talent. I do like him, just as you do. He just keeps beating people, shows good routes, good hands and just enough speed.

A few guys I like include Tavon Austin, who has moved up, unsurprisingly and Quinton Patton.
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But as it were you've got some good ideas, stick to your guns, you might be right.

[mikered30]

Ryan the Pain Torain signed with the Giants today, nice timing.

[stevemcqueen1]

I think a better late round gamble would be Ray Ray Armstrong. The other guy from the U, Telemaque(sp?) would be a good gamble as well considering he's actually playing as we speak. Both play Free Safety, but Ray Ray isn't playing this season due to a NCAA suspension.

Ray Ray is a 6'4 220 pound ball hawk FS. He's the headhunting, enforcer type that I'd love to have in our backfield. And he's big enough to cover any WR/TE in the league. If Raheem is with us next year, I think he's worth the late round gamble, as he can bring the best out of players with a troubled past.

Ray Ray is a bum. He isn't worth a draft pick. Honey Badger was a far superior player and you can at least justify spending a 7th rounder on him.

[darrelgreenie]

In an ideal world I would like to....

o upgrade at FS: either through FA or draft

o upgrade at both CB spots or upgrade 1 CB and re-structure D.Hall: either thru FA or draft or both

o Add pass rushing talent preferable along the DL but another edge rusher is good too: via draft b/c quality rusher seldom make it FA

o improve depth at RT w/ potential for an in season upgrade (draft)

o my number one offseason desire is for a GM but I know that ain't happening
o improve RB depth (draft)

o add developmental/upside players at every position

[gorebd82]

Larry Fitzgerald:

Yes, absolutely I'd make that trade. Fitzgerald is too good and impactful to pass up. He's all time great good. He's 29 years old and can probably play at a really high level for another 5 years or more. He's well conditioned, had a pretty healthy career, has amazing character and leadership, great work ethic, and his strengths of route running and elite hands/vision won't suffer dramatic drop off with age. Griffin, Fitzgerald, Garçon, Alfred Morris is a group that could win multiple superbowls. He's probably the only receiver I'd pursue that hard other than Calvin Johnson. I have no question that his success would carry over to the Skins.

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Honey Badger:

Yes, I'd draft him in the 7th. Honestly, I'd like to see us possibly use our 6ths and 7ths to come away with some redshirt/PS, high potential guys. I'd draft Ray Ray and Matthieu and whoever we want to develop in our RB pipeline. Those are guys that I'd rather scoop up to have on a short leash and develop rather than letting them hit UDFA. Either you find a gem, you cut them, or put them on your PS. Our roster is now at the point where late round picks are PS material so take a few gambles on potential homeruns. Especially since Ray Ray and Honey Badger are impact secondary guys.

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The more I think about it, I think we should really focus heavily on upgrading CB with our main resources. The question about RT/CB/S in the 2nd plus the info that was raised about Tanard not applying for reinstatement until August got me thinking. I've always had some interest in corner, but my prioritization and approach have shifted.

First, I'm not an advocate of scrapping this current group. I think we just need to put them in better position to be successful. I've already said that I'd like to target Talib and I stick with that because I think he presents the best value, especially to us since I think Raheem will be DC.

Next, I'd look at DHall making that move to FS. His biggest issue is that he can't stick with his man, but put him in position to scan the field, be a help defender rather than on an island, cause turnovers, give strong run support, and bring blitz pressure. He can do those things well.

Finally, I'd look to draft a CB on day 2 to be one of our top three guys, hopefully pushing Wilson to the nickel. I'd prefer to get a CB in round 2 and RT in round 3 unless there's an obvious difference in talent, then swap the two rounds. Of course I've voiced Denard in the 4th, then look at another DB (CB or S, leaning towards another CB) and WR in the 5th since those are the deepest positions in the draft and we can probably get great value.

I guess my point is that I'd rather go with 2 CBs between our top pick and top FA rather than a CB and a S. Pushing DHall to safety and Wilson to nickel would do wonders for our secondary. Hopefully we can keep Tanard too as a reserve at both safety spots.

[stevemcqueen1]

Yeah I see Tavon Austin getting mocked in the first a lot of places. Makes sense. I was talking with TRGE and kind of echoing your sentiment Monk, the playmakers are going to go in the first and early second.

I've seen Justin Hunter dropping out of the first recently. I have a hard time believing it, but I would love to draft a player like him. He's a gifted athlete.

I've also seen Keenan Allen start to drop because of his injury.

[darrelgreenie]

...Griffin, Fitzgerald, Garçon, Alfred Morris is a group that could win multiple superbowls. He's probably the only receiver I'd pursue that hard other than Calvin Johnson. I have no question that his success would carry over to the Skins.

I don't want to get too wrapped up in arguing over a hypothetical but how does that trade put you closer to being a complete team?
I'm sure Fitz would have a positive impact. But this offense is already 7th in yards and 7th in points how much further will Larry push the offense? How will you keep the team young and improving on a team this is already short valueable draft picks if you trade away even more valueable draft picks? Sure there is FA (which as we should be well aware is almost as much of a crap shoot as the draft) but isn't FA+the draft picks more beneficial to the team then Fitz+FA-draft picks?

Secondary:
Imo there isn't enough of a guarantee that D. Hall can make a fluid transition to FS to assume FS isn't an area that needs to be addressed in earnest.

[Laron Burgundy]

I think a better late round gamble would be Ray Ray Armstrong. The other guy from the U, Telemaque(sp?) would be a good gamble as well considering he's actually playing as we speak. Both play Free Safety, but Ray Ray isn't playing this season due to a NCAA suspension.

Ray Ray is a 6'4 220 pound ball hawk FS. He's the headhunting, enforcer type that I'd love to have in our backfield. And he's big enough to cover any WR/TE in the league. If Raheem is with us next year, I think he's worth the late round gamble, as he can bring the best out of players with a troubled past.

I disagree here. Ray Ray was always more promise than production. Obviously Mathieu has issues, but realize he's only 20. You would hope that a kid like that could see his own promise and at least be smart enough to live straight until he signed his rookie deal, but almost no one thinks ahead like that. At the same time, I don't dock too much off marijuana related offenses, what you're talking about is something that probably the majority of the league does or has done.

That being said, as far as Mathieu as a prospect he is almost an ideal nickel corner and possibly more. I realize he's undersized, but, if anything, when an average athlete is able to be a playmaker you have to credit their instincts and intelligence, much like our own Kerrigan. If he's smart enough to show up in shape for a pro day, then I would be willing to give him a shot on our team.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Yeah, it's starting to look more and more like a first round caliber CB like Rhodes is gonna drop. If he does, snatch him up. Though I'd really love to get a playmaking TE, I don't think we can go into 2013 with Paulsen and Paul as our only healthy TEs unless Paul makes HUGE strides.

I was very much on board with Hall at FS, it does seem to fit what he does well, but he hasn't looked good in the few snaps he's played this season. In theory he should be a quality FS, but I'm not sure he will be in practice.

Also I'll be very disappointed if we don't use a 6th or 7th on Honey Badger. He doesn't have an elite physical profile but he's a playmaker and a pure football player, the guy who often plays well beyond his measurables.

[SJValleySkinz]

How would everyone feel about taking Nickell Robey in the 2nd or 3rd round? The only thing working in his detriment is his height IMO. He has uncanny instincts for a CB, ball skills and great acceleration to the ball. Put 2 inches on him and he's a top 15 pick.

[Samuels]

If honey badger runs a 4.5 40 or better I'll bet money he goes before rd 6. The guy is a flatout playmaker because of his instincts and competive fire. I'd take a flyer even if he ran a super slow 40.