2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[stevemcqueen1]

This draft seems pretty deep in the 2-4th or even 5th rounds. I think we should trade our 2nd round pick back a few spots in the 2nd in order to acquire an extra pick. The question is what round pick would trading back a few spots in the 2nd get us? Also, are there any other ways we can acquire more picks? Any players we don't need that are worth a 3rd, 4th, or 5th?

Trading down five slots in the mid second last year got St Louis an extra 5th rounder. If the drop is big enough, you might get a 4th. You can also go for positioning--trading down in the second and simultaneously moving up in a later round with a pick swap. That happened last year and I think a team moved up 20 some odd spots in the fourth.

In year's past, a good rule of thumb for trading up into a round was that it would cost you picks in the two subsequent rounds. So to trade into the second, you'd probably trade your third and fourth rounders. But again, it depends on how early the pick is in that round.

And you have different teams willing to pay different prices for things. And when players are involved in the trades, it can completely throw off value.

Trading future picks generally devalues them by a full round on the TVC,

[darrelgreenie]

...IMO Raheem was brought in for a reason. He was considered a very promising rising defensive assistant so much so that he basically skipped right to HC. Bruce is obviously very familiar with him and the tea leaves show his confidence in him. So based on track record, our DB struggles are a reflection of the schemes run by Haz and Raheem is an excellent young coach.

Certainly Raheem was brought in for a reason: to fix the secondary. Thus it remains one of the worst performing units on the team. One of the possible solutions was a player he most likely vouched for/suggested in Tanard Jackson whose off the field transgression left the team in a lurch. It seems kinda arbitrary to absolve the position coach for the lack of success of his unit while blaming Haslett.

I've also seen the success of Tampa-2 pipeline guys with the 3-4. Obviously Lebeau runs things in Pitt, but as a defensive guy, I'm sure that Tomlin is very involved with the defense and that has been a successful marriage. A better example is probably Rivera going from Chicago to SD, studying the defense for a year and then running it the next. That unit jumped to #1. With a year under this system, I think Raheem can follow that path. Guys like Nolan, Bowles (look more at his Miami stint), the Ravens, and Pats have also utilized both schemes. I'd love to see Raheem use the hybrid scheme that many have clamored for around here for years.

The Steelers defense is all LeBeau. Its quite a stretch to compare Raheem background as a DC to guys like Nolan and especially to the Hoodie over in New England. Raheem experience as a DC is limited and if he were to mix schemes he would be doing it for the first time.

As for Brown, all I can go by is the information the team gives. No one has any insight into people's health. There is no more reason to be skeptical than there is reason to believe the reports. Brown played here for two years through injury, no reason to think he wouldn't improve with offseason rehab. Reports were positive about his flexibility, scar tissue breaking up, etc. I'm not his doctor and didn't see his charts. I'll say that I'm always going to give the benefit of the doubt with injuries until I hear otherwise. I'm not the type of person to take a skeptical stance without evidence. As time went on with Brown, I grew more skeptical. I didn't view his injury as devastating since he was able to play through it, just seem like it needed time and rehab to heal fully. That said, my reason for optimism was because a fully healthy Jammal Brown is a Pro Bowl level talent. Unfortunately, his injuries robbed him of that.

Ihmo this is the kind of blind optimism that leads to obvious and avoidable personnel mistakes. When an aging, injured OT (that is released by his team) that you sign struggles to stay healthy and does not perform at high level you don't resign them you move on and look for a better or at the very an equal but younger/healthier solution.

I don't see any correlation between Jammal Brown, Raheem, and Tanard.

The correlation imo is blind optimism.

I disagree with the harsh assessment of our DLs. That is a solid trio that produced 13.5 sacks last season. Yes we can use a true dominant pass rusher, but that group is far from a liability.

I don't consider my assessment harsh. I think its accurate our DL lacks pass rush/upfield rush ability because of the type of DL of personnel we sought. Our DL sack totals are due to the focus on our edge rushers.

In general, I know that my views may clash with some because I see things from more of a GM's view (with a particular philosophy) and roster composition perspective

I tend to view things from a GM's perspective as well, albeit one with vastly different views.

---------- Post added December-5th-2012 at 07:44 PM ----------

Austin would be nasty in this O. But still the glaring weakness in the back end of the D. JP, you get to pick between Austin and Vaccaro, who you taking?

Vaccaro

[skinzwiz]

i know this has been stated but Tavon Austin would be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO nasty in this offense. Imagine what he could do with the space the Pistol creates. I would go heavy in free agency for defense but i would use the 2nd round pick on him if here is there

The skins have to be smart with their picks though. I think a guy like Marquise Goodwin from Texas could be just as effective and be gotten in a later round. I think Goodwin could have done a lot more at Texas if he had been in a system like Austin.

[amm0409]

Ogletree played safety first year and LB two years at UGA. Still wonder if he stays

[acuratl1984]

Any thoughts on the kourtnei brown signing to the ps? His size an agility is intriguing, very comparable to aldon smith...

Yea he has good size/speed but seems like an underachiever in college.
He was a 4 star recruit but was mainly a backup in College by the look of his stats.
Hopefully he can prove everyone wrong and be good/decent for us. I mean we're bound to find some UDFA luck right?

[stevemcqueen1]

Vaccaro

Do you think Austin is a first rounder?

I have trouble getting past his size.

[darrelgreenie]

Do you think Austin is a first rounder?

I have trouble getting past his size.

You know when you put it that way it makes it a lot harder to pick Vaccaro being that Austin is imo a fringe 1st round talent and Vaccaro imo is not.
I would trade out of the pick if both were on the board. Some team would offer more then draft value chart for a shot at spot if Austin and Vaccaro were available.

[stevemcqueen1]

You know when you put it that way it makes it a lot harder to pick Vaccaro being that Austin is imo a fringe 1st round talent and Vaccaro imo is not.
I would trade out of the pick if both were on the board. Some team would offer more then draft value chart for a shot at spot if Austin and Vaccaro were available.

I'm just picturing it each in three years in my head and forgetting about position value for a minute. Austin is a dynamic 175 pounder. Soaking wet. Only about 5'9. Vaccaro isn't really that dynamic but he's a violent, physically imposing 220 pounder probably about 6'1.

Austin is going to have to be a situational player at his size. He's a remarkable athlete but he's just so small. Vaccaro is a tank and while he's no ballhawk, he is a good athlete that can play multiple roles for your team too.

I think you can make a case for Vaccaro over Austin in draft value. Some of what Austin does that makes him great at the college level is just not going to translate to the NFL because of his size while Vaccaro is a king sized safety that should have no problems translating his game to the NFL.

---------- Post added December-5th-2012 at 10:39 PM ----------

for some reason im not a big vaccaro fan, I like rambo over him.

Rambo is too feast or famine for me. I'd take him in a certain range, but I would prefer several other safeties in the draft to him, Vaccaro being one. I prefer safeties that live up to the name of the position.

[Monk4thaHALL]

http://www.gbtribune.com/section/155/article/44743/

Kansas State sets school record for All-Big 12 honors
Twenty Wildcats named as all-conference by the AP

Leading the way for K-State was senior quarterback Collin Klein, who was named the Big 12 Offernsive Player of the Year by both the league’s coaches and AP, while the league’s coaches tabbed senior linebacker Arthur Brown as the Big 12 Defensive Player of the Year.

Nigel Malone was a second-team honoree by the Associated Press

__

http://www.big12sports.com/ViewArtic...B_OEM_ID=10410

2012 ALL-BIG 12 FOOTBALL FIRST TEAM

OFFENSE

QB Collin Klein - K-State
RB Joseph Randle - Oklahoma State
RB John Hubert - K-State
FB Trey Millard - Oklahoma
WR Terrance Williams - Baylor
WR Tavon Austin - West Virginia
WR Stedman Bailey - West Virginia
TE Travis Tannahill - K-State
OL Cyril Richardson - Baylor
OL Cornelius Lucas - K-State
OL Gabe Ikard - Oklahoma
OL Lane Taylor - Oklahoma State
OL LaAdrian Waddle - Texas Tech
PK Quinn Sharp - Oklahoma State
KR/PR Tavon Austin - West Virginia

DEFENSE

DL Jake McDonough - Iowa State
DL Meshak Williams - K-State
DL Calvin Barnett - Oklahoma State
DL Devonte Fields - TCU
DL Stansly Maponga - TCU
DL Alex Okafor - Texas
LB A.J. Klein - Iowa State
LB Jake Knott - Iowa State
LB Arthur Brown - K-State
DB Ty Zimmerman - K-State
DB Aaron Colvin - Oklahoma
DB Tony Jefferson - Oklahoma
DB Jason Verrett - TCU
DB Kenny Vaccaro - Texas
P Quinn Sharp - Oklahoma State

2012 ALL-BIG 12 FOOTBALL SECOND TEAM

OFFENSE

QB Geno Smith - West Virginia
RB James Sims - Kansas
RB Damien Williams - Oklahoma
FB Kye Staley - Oklahoma State
WR Chris Harper - K-State
WR Kenny Stills - Oklahoma
WR Darrin Moore - Texas Tech
TE Jace Amaro - Texas Tech
OL Tanner Hawkinson - Kansas
OL Lane Johnson - Oklahoma
OL Blaize Foltz - TCU
OL Trey Hopkins - Texas
OL Joe Madsen - West Virginia
PK Anthony Cantele - K-State
KR/PR Justin Gilbert - Oklahoma State

DEFENSE

DL Adam Davis - K-State
DL Vai Lutui - K-State
DL David King - Oklahoma
DL Chucky Hunter - TCU
DL Kerry Hyder - Texas Tech
LB Bryce Hager - Baylor
LB Ben Heeney - Kansas
LB Kenny Cain - TCU
DB Cody Davis - Texas Tech
DB Durrell Givens - Iowa State
DB Sam Carter - TCU
DB Bradley McDougald - Kansas
DB D.J. Johnson - Texas Tech
DB Demontre Hurst - Oklahoma
P Kirby Van Der Kamp - Iowa State

---------- Post added December-6th-2012 at 02:58 AM ----------

[J-bomb]

Ty hilton is 5'9 183
Tavon Austin 5'9 175

I think after the season is done austin will gain 5-10 lbs of muscle because you know his agent will have him working on all the knocks the scouts put in their reports... Kid can play can't teach speed, who cares if he gets picked higher than he should he will be a difference maker an a match up nightmare for defenses...

[stevemcqueen1]

Ty hilton is 5'9 183
Tavon Austin 5'9 175

I think after the season is done austin will gain 5-10 lbs of muscle because you know his agent will have him working on all the knocks the scouts put in their reports... Kid can play can't teach speed, who cares if he gets picked higher than he should he will be a difference maker an a match up nightmare for defenses...

TY Hilton got picked at the end of the third round, not the first round.

He's a dynamic player no doubt but the first or second round is early to be talking about taking a situational player. He would have to be as good as DeSean Jackson to justify it.

[J-bomb]

TY Hilton got picked at the end of the third round, not the first round.

He's a dynamic player no doubt but the first or second round is early to be talking about taking a situational player. He would have to be as good as DeSean Jackson to justify it.

Do you consider hilton a situational player? I think austin can do everything hilton is doing now in the league plus he's a better runner out of the backfield than hilton....

[skinzwiz]

Do you consider hilton a situational player? I think austin can do everything hilton is doing now in the league plus he's a better runner out of the backfield than hilton....

Why not pick up Marquise Goodwin later...at WVU, Goodwin would have been just as productive.

[Samuels]

TY Hilton got picked at the end of the third round, not the first round.

He's a dynamic player no doubt but the first or second round is early to be talking about taking a situational player. He would have to be as good as DeSean Jackson to justify it.

I like Austin more then I did Jackson. Austin in this offense would be dynamic because of his ability to lineup in the backfield or the slot. He will also upgrade our return game. I think his ability to play Rb or Wr in a offense like ours is huge.

I would be happy with Dri Archer as well for those same reasons but he is a poor mans Austin.

[J-bomb]

Why not pick up Marquise Goodwin later...at WVU, Goodwin would have been just as productive.

Huh? Goodwin from texas? An no austin looks more explosive better fit, imo.