2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Both safety positions and Hall have not been getting it done. They are all problems. Wilson and Griffin have covered better than Hall this year so I have to disagree with your statement.

The only problem I have with Hall is his contract. If he restructures he can stay as far as I am concerned. He is very good imo the problem is we need safety help over the top. Hall has been good in coverage, great in tackling and he is a solid vet presence that guys like playing with. He cares and he wants to be here. He has his teammates backs and they appreciate that. Those type of things can't always be measured so easily.

Better safety play which we haven't had since Hall has been here really will greatly improve how both Wilson and Hall look. Maybe we can add a less expensive corner to the mix as a replacement of Griffin and then focus on the Safety spots for the offseason. I don't know we need huge upgrades like DRC at corner.

[stevemcqueen1]

He is a due a pretty large sum next year. If we cut him, he won't count against the cap. I'm sure there will be a CB on the market that can give us what he does, if not better, that will count less against the cap next year. On the other hand, if he restructures, that's another thing...i wouldn't mind him being the 3rd or 4th cb...

You think we'll sign two or three CBs better than him this offseason?

[NLC1054]

They are following the personality of their coach-undisciplined and emotionally erratic.

I agree. Why Scwartz isn't one of the coaches on the hot seat, I'll never know, but it's clear that team has run wild.

The rash of arrests they had in the offseason. Suh is in his third year he's still making these bonehead, stupid, miserable decisions on the football field. Stafford's erratic play. Titus Young on "IR" because he purposely was lining up in the wrong place during games. They look like a team without a captain.

They need a Dungy, or a Gruden, or someone else.

[DogofWar1]

Why would you let your best DB go when you're trying to upgrade the talent of the unit? That would be counterproductive. We've got limited resources.
How do you propose we actually upgrade the secondary while simultaneously cutting Hall?

We're gonna have to do something about his contract though. I've come around on the idea of him staying, he's been playing pretty well all things considered, but we can't afford to pay him what he's due while simultaneously upgrading the secondary, there's just not enough money to go around, unless we use and hit on 2-3 guys in the draft, which is a very tall order.

[stevemcqueen1]

The Cruz TD was totally Madieu's fault. Wilson playing trail technique, Madieu's stupid ass got caught peeking into the backfield instead of keeping his eyes on his work, Cruz ran straight past him.

Madieu has screwed over both corners at various times.

You can't put that TD totally on Madieu just like you can't put it totally on Wilson. They both failed to read the vertical stem to Cruz's tree and they got split when they were supposed to bracket Cruz.

There have been coverage breakdowns like this all year in the secondary. It's a systemic problem from the coaches to the players.

But the fact remains you can't rebuild a big unit like that in one or even two years with limited resources. Wilson and Hall are our two best DBs by far and pretty much the only two guys we can't realistically replace this offseason. It's going to take a little while, but to stop the bleeding we definitely need to get better starting safeties and we might need to make coaching changes to the unit to improve performance on the field.

[Laron Burgundy]

Yes, all the cut Hall talk sounds great until you realize we have nobody to replace him with. Sometimes you have to overpay a player to retain their services. I know it may seem like the grass is greener on the other side (remember Carlos Rogers?), but everyone calling for DRC should know the eagles fanbase is just as pissed at DRC as we are with Hall. Talib, another corner mentioned a lot, is a headache and just looking to get suspended for a full year.

Plus there's the whole availability thing, I really doubt the eagles let DRC go, or that the Patriots part ways with Talib. Talking about an upgrade for Hall is great if there is actually one on the market.

Oh, and btw that 2007 draft class. Joe Thomas, Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, Patrick Willis and Darrelle Revis, all the very top at their position. I don't know if another draft class has ever dominated the top at so many positions before, certainly up there with the '83 class. The '89 class had 3 all-time greats in it as well. If 2007 didn't suck so much at the qb and passrusher positions it may have been remembered better than it is. Perhaps it is too soon to talk HoF with any of their careers, but all of them seem along that trajectory, with or without a title.

[stevemcqueen1]

Yes, all the cut Hall talk sounds great until you realize we have nobody to replace him with. Sometimes you have to overpay a player to retain their services. I know it may seem like the grass is greener on the other side (remember Carlos Rogers?), but everyone calling for DRC should know the eagles fanbase is just as pissed at DRC as we are with Hall. Talib, another corner mentioned a lot, is a headache and just looking to get suspended for a full year.

Plus there's the whole availability thing, I really doubt the eagles let DRC go, or that the Patriots part ways with Talib. Talking about an upgrade for Hall is great if there is actually one on the market.

Oh, and btw that 2007 draft class. Joe Thomas, Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, Patrick Willis and Darrelle Revis, all the very top at their position. I don't know if another draft class has ever dominated the top at so many positions before, certainly up there with the '83 class. The '89 class had 3 all-time greats in it as well. If 2007 didn't suck so much at the qb and passrusher positions it may have been remembered better than it is. Perhaps it is too soon to talk HoF with any of their careers, but all of them seem along that trajectory, with or without a title.

Landry should have joined that group. But he jacked up his Achilles and then got into a pissing match with his organization.

2011 will pass that class easily in quality, even at the top end. Von Miller, Aldon Smith, and JJ Watt are already DPOY caliber players and Cam Newton, AJ Green, and Pat Peterson are going to be among the best at their position in the NFL, if not the best eventually. Julio Jones, Nick Fairley, and Robert Quinn are going to be elite. Marcel Dareus will probably get there too.

Andy Dalton is pretty good. Muhammad Wilkerson and Cam Jordan are pretty good and have a chance to be really good. Kerrigan is good. Nate Solder is pretty good. That class had 8 or 9 top three style talents.

2010-2012 marks probably the strongest three year period of draft classes I can ever remember. 2008 was OK, great year for OTs and HBs. 2007 was good only in high end talent at the very top. 2005-2007 & 2009 were such weak classes that it's like there was a kink in the hose until 2010 when it all came gushing out over a three year period.

This year's class is back to looking weak. 2011 and 2012 coincided with a QB boom in CFB. There were a lot of very successful juniors and seniors who graduated or moved on to the NFL and you were left with a really poor QB year that was kind of highlighted by this completely lackluster Heisman class. There are only a handful of elite prospects this season, it's like a normal year. But it looks bad compared to the star studded 11 and 12 classes.

---------- Post added December-10th-2012 at 08:58 AM ----------

The 2011 pass rushers were on such a different level physically than most of the NFL. I don't think we truly grasped the athletcism of the group during the combine because we only saw them competing against each other.

In 2012 news, RGIII is now leading the NFL in passer rating and Luke Kuechly is leading the NFL in tackles already. He'll probably get to 160 this year. Ridiculous. He's blown up since they moved him to MLB. They were silly not to play him there day one. Lavonte David is having a nice season too, fifth in tackles. He's been a key to Tampa realizing their potential as a nasty run D. They are going to give our offense matchup problems down the road if we don't increase the talent level of our OL.

[Warpath11]

Polumbus sucks so much.

Everytime Polumbus is asked to just straight pass block he is abused by any player lined up across from him. If capt Kirk as to play for a few weeks I fear for him, if we dont help Polumbus on every passing down. If Cousins plays we need to run the ball 35+ times as a team to have any chance of winning and if we fall behind we're cooked...

We need a RT and S upgrade ASAP when a fat ass like Boldin (if he runs a 4.7 40 id be surprised) gets behind your safety something is wrong.

edit: Is there a way to clone Ngata and make the clone draft eligble that falls to us in the 2nd round. He is a ridiculous physical specimen one of the best athletes I have ever watched (in pretty much any sport)

[skinzwiz]

Yes, all the cut Hall talk sounds great until you realize we have nobody to replace him with. Sometimes you have to overpay a player to retain their services. I know it may seem like the grass is greener on the other side (remember Carlos Rogers?), but everyone calling for DRC should know the eagles fanbase is just as pissed at DRC as we are with Hall. Talib, another corner mentioned a lot, is a headache and just looking to get suspended for a full year.

Plus there's the whole availability thing, I really doubt the eagles let DRC go, or that the Patriots part ways with Talib. Talking about an upgrade for Hall is great if there is actually one on the market.

This is a good source highlighting the top upcoming free agents:

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles...ency-big-board

I would love to get Jairus Byrd and one of those CBS not named DRC and Talib. I am not a fan of neither and I feel neither is an upgrade all. There are quite a few other CBs I would consider. Also the draft could add at least two members to the secondary. I don't see why this whole.secondary can't be revamped...I also don't see how the cap penalties can stand.

[stevemcqueen1]

Paul Kruger and Art Jones have become players. Kruger is pretty good. Surprisingly fluid athlete with that odd, high cut build. Art Jones flashed dominance on several sequences. The Ravens defense is aging and transitioning but I don't think the people who were talking about them losing it realize they've been stockpiling a lot of good young talent in the pipeline. I believe Paul Kruger, Art Jones, Terrence Cody, Courtney Upshaw, and Jimmy Smith are going to be talked about as the core of one of the best defenses in a couple of years. They'll need to find another really good ILB and safety though.

That offensive line also has some complete bruisers on it too. They've got the ability to control the LoS and that's a formula that's going to work against most teams. If I were trying to build an ideal defense to match up with that offense I wouldn't even try to go big and out-power them. I would build a smaller speedy defense and just try and go around them.

They draft so well. They are always going to be hard to beat.

[stevemcqueen1]

To get the kind of early impact additions we want for next season, I think FA is going to have to be a big tool. I really hope we get our cap space back this offseason.

These are some "name" FAs I would like to see us take a look at:

- Henry Melton - He might cost some coin but he's one of the only highly disruptive interior DLs that will actually hit FA.
- Sebastian Vollmer - Might be costly too and he's an injury risk but we're desperate for a RT and he has the potential to be a big upgrade. 29 though, I don't want to spend too much on him.
- Rey Maualuga - if London retires, don't think he will though.
- William Moore - good SS
- Glover Quin - good FS
- Ryan Mundy - "
- William Beatty - Giants will likely keep him but I think he could do at RT
- Andre Smith - need a RT

Probably draft a RB in the late rounds. We need to reinforce TE somehow as well.

[Dukes and Skins]

I'd take Zac Stacy in round 5 and laugh as he becomes a very good compliment to Morris at RB

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Paul Kruger and Art Jones have become players. Kruger is pretty good. Surprisingly fluid athlete with that odd, high cut build. Art Jones flashed dominance on several sequences. The Ravens defense is aging and transitioning but I don't think the people who were talking about them losing it realize they've been stockpiling a lot of good young talent in the pipeline. I believe Paul Kruger, Art Jones, Terrence Cody, Courtney Upshaw, and Jimmy Smith are going to be talked about as the core of one of the best defenses in a couple of years. They'll need to find another really good ILB and safety though.

Good call on Cody and Jones btw, I remember you talking them up hard.

Of your FA list, Melton will be too expensive, Vollmer could easily blow up in our faces just like Jammal Brown, Maualuga, I haven't seen him play much this year but PFF thinks he's a scrub. Andre Smith? Might be expensive, but I'd like him. I think RT is going to have to come in the draft though, and we need to hope that Fletcher can provide one more season of starter level play.

What about Sean Smith, CB from Miami? He's a solid starter, maybe better than solid, and he can push Wilson to 2 and Hall to 3.

I'd also go after Jared Cook from the Titans so we don't have to draft TE. As for RB, I really want Mike Gillislee, but he might go too early for where I'd want to take him.

Also I'd hire the Vikings training staff, draft Lattimore in the 6th or 7th if he decides to come out (he might decide that NFL-level medical staffs might make his recovery smoother and it's pretty safe to say someone will at least give him a year on IR) and see if we can't strike gold there.

[Monk4thaHALL]

...
2nd) Oday Abuishi or Breenan Williams O T
3) Montee Ball
4) Travis Long OLB
5) DE - Joe Vellano
5) DJ Swearinger

Williams has terrible pass protection technique. Watch the Virginia Tech v unc game. He literally grabs James Gayle's jersey on every pass protection match-up.

That game alone is the zapruder film.

What you see is a player who just doesn't shadow well. His mirror technique is poor because he doesn't use his feet well in short area radius. Essentially he doesn't redirect well.

Is he athletic? - Only in certain assignments. When he's running in a straightline, downfield, sure. You can see the natural speed he has in the open field, but it's straightline.

As pass blocker, not at all. He doesn't "bring his feet" with him in the kick-slide. If he faces an opponent that can stutter-step and change direction quickly, Williams will over extend and grab. Literally he holds on nearly every play I watched in the VT game. And I mean, his hands are outside of the shoulders, grabbing jersey, just so Gayle couldn't turn the edge.

And what's so amazing is the officiating crew only called him for holding once, maybe twice. There easily could have been much more called (imo).

I'm at do not touch stage. 2nd round is a pipe dream. He's a 5th rounder at best. I believe you have him far too high. I don't care what cbs or draft scout says. They were notoriously high on whats-his-buckets from FSU last year ... (sanders). So too were a lot of the drive-bye crowd here on ES. I was turned off by him ... Zebrie Sanders. Ironically a lot of people here called him a 2nd round selection for the Skins, he went in the 5th round.

There were A LOT of people on ES calling for Sanders in the 2nd or 3rd, all the way up to the draft, I didn't see it that way:
February-21st-2012 10:59 PM

I don't think Sanders is worthy of the 2nd round.

April-18th-2012 07:52 PM

...
However he's not going to get blasted backwards on roller skates from bullrush, the same way Sanders was during the season and senior bowl, same to be said about mccants.
...
I don't know if people actually know this, but Mosley ran a faster 40 than Sanders and a quicker 3-cone than Sanders and a quicker shuttle, for what it's worth. In fact the 3-cone was not even close, Mosely was much more sudden. It is what it is.
...
Again, Sanders (and mccants) is the one with the lack of a powerful base.
...
For example Mosley had a nice first step and low rise during his 40, Sanders, stood straight up, got top heavy in a second.

I have the same feeling with B. Williams - overrated.
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Aboushi in the 2nd is right, by me.
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Swearinger: When you look at the safety class, the way I crunch the numbers, I just can't see Swearinger in the 5th.

That's even with the devaluation of the safety position at large, even in the most recent of drafts.

I understand the fact that safeties are going later in the draft, moreso than ever. But the 5th overall safety selected in the draft, the last 3 years (2010, '11, '12) has been selected by at least the 4th round.

In 2010 it was in the 2nd round, In '11 and '12 it was the 4th round.

That, of course, all depends on how you rank the safeties. But starting with Reid, you have Rambo and Elam and Vaccaro in between, maybe someone else ... I have Swearinger as my #5 or #6 overall safety. So by recent trend, I'd say he goes either in the 4th (on average) or by the end of the 3rd if there is a run or if a team really needs to fill a Strong Safety role.

I just think when you couple the athleticism he shows, the violent hits he gives out, the fact that he's making big plays at opportune times and the decent coverage he has - when it's coverage in the intermediate zone, stuff in front of him, he's very active - when it's downfield coverage, I think he's less effective (he doesn't have great coverage - he has been late over-the-top more than a few times). I just see him going before the 5th. I think you have Swearinger too low.

I have Swearinger in the 3rd round, sometimes bordering into the 4th. Based on talent, I've posted before that at times I've called him an end of 2nd talent. Which basically means I think he has ability in line with those players taken in the 2nd, but I expect that teams will hold off until later to actually draft him.
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(edit) Whoops, thought you were talking about Travis Johnson - San Jose State. My bad. I haven't looked at Long.

TJ ... is not nearly as physical or as violent as Miles Burris from last year, despite coming from the same conference, with similar build and style of play and very similar statistics.

Burris was selected at the end of the 4th last year.

He was someone I liked very much and I would have selected him, if I had the choice.

TJ ... is just not as good as Burris. He's not as sudden, less pass rush "moves' or repertoire, not as much quickness or speed on the edge and not nearly as violent a striker.

I think you have TJ ... too high.

(The above was a response I made concerning Travis Johnson who I mistakenly thought you were talking about. I've started to look at Long, fwiw, I'll give you my read later).
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Vellano is a good player and someone will grab him. I don't necessarily disagree with the round projection you have there, per se. But he's the kind-of guy that MS would like to get value on. So I see him as the type of player teams won't talk about in order to give a false sense of uninterest. They'll go blasé in order to get him later as a value pick.

[Monk4thaHALL]

This is a good source highlighting the top upcoming free agents:

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles...ency-big-board

Generally when I see bleacher report I just walk on bye. I did click and I my first response is: I think their ranking is all wacky, but they brought up names worth noting.

I think I stopped for a second to read what they said about Sam Shields (Green Bay). The only problem is that restricted free agents don't change teams. I mean it's cost effective for the parent team to tender the player and even if a valid contract sheet is offered by a suitor team, the parent team can receive draft selections if they don't feel the need to match the offer, so it just stymies RFAs from moving.

This is a site that I came across and I like it because they attempt to list every single free agent available for 2013. The sheer number of names they list is impressive:

http://nfltraderumors.co/2013-nfl-free-agents/
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There are a few names I've posted about before in Paul Kruger, for example. But another name that hasn't been mentioned is Donald Thomas from NE.

He an interior guard who has been starting this year for NE, plays LG, #64. In his 5th year, age: 27. He's a free agent this offseason. Current base salary: 700,000.

Watch him, very sudden in the run game and creates some nice leverage and has "pop."
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Anyway, As it pertains to the secondary and cornerback, from the list, I'm looking at:

Aqib Talib – NE
Cary Williams – BAL
Sam Shields – GB – (RFA) - (RFAs don't change teams)
Phillip Adams – OAK – (RFA) - (RFAs don't change teams)
Derek Cox – JAC
Leodis McKelvin – BUF
Mike Jenkins – DAL
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As for safety:

Glover Quin – HOU - SS ( I guess used more in the box)
Jairus Byrd – BUF - FS (money)
Louis Delmas – DET - FS (only reason this low, the knees)
Dashon Goldson – SF - FS
Stevie Brown – NYG – (RFA) - SS
Kenny Phillips – NYG - SS
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Likewise they give a salary cap subsection:

http://nfltraderumors.co/nfl-team-cap-space/

This information was provided by Pro Football Talk. These totals are as of November 1st, 2012.

NFC East:
Cowboys: $3.7 million
Giants: $2.2 million
Eagles: $20.1 million
Redskins: $3.3 million