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[The Tris]

You'd see him try and circumvent this by just trying to strip the ball and wait for the cavalry to come bring the guy down. It's good when you've got lots of defenders to help but he needs to be able to make open field tackles on his own to be a reliable starter.

DHall actually seems stronger and is a much better tackler. That's not the greatest endorsement for a S, DHall is not a very big or strong player.

However, DHall was, prior to his tenure here, a really bad tackler. I think (and am I really about to say this?) that has a lot to do with the defensive coaching efforts.

We can also open up a personal can of worms regarding my issues with Todd Grantham - not only can poor tackling be coached, some bulk added, but I'd argue that BR is poorly coached at the college level (think my opinion of mid-2000s UVa players - the Al Groh effect - and how when you can identify supremely substandard coaching in college, you can identify value in prospects).

These are not angle/instinct issues ala Gomes, but more mental/size issues that are coachable/correctable IMO. If we can get DHall to put his hat in on tackling, I'm not sure why we can't get the 2" taller and 25 lb heavier Rambo to do the same.

Again, this is why he is a 2nd rounder and not a top 15 guy.

Trading him means you have to go out and find a good backup QB all over again this offseason.

I don't think Rex deserves to even be on the team, I don't want him lurking as the backup.

But for Aboushi I might do it. Polumbus is that bad. Aboushi would be a substantial and immediate upgrade.

I would certainly hold off trading Cousins this season (absent a Godfather offer) until theres another "Cousins" developing on the roster. I'd argue that its easier to find an Aboushi-level player (and I like him a lot) than a Cousins level player.

Citing how bad Polumbus is Steve almost has me thinking you are considering need and not pure-BPA!

[stevemcqueen1]

I'm willing to live with that from any DB except my rookie FS that I plan to start.

If you trust the system and trust the QB development program and you want to play the QB pump and dump game like many other WCO teams of the past then drafting and developing QB is an every draft, every offseason occurance. To me the ability to develop a QB is no different then Mike and Bobby ability to develop a RB.

If the value is there trade Cousins, you can only find or create another one.

Cousin's wasn't exactly throwing beach balls through pin holes, he was executing a scheme that created well defined reads and open, often wide open, throws.

Yeah we need to use FA to get a good FS IMO. I like Mundy and Quin and want us to sign one of them. I'll be disappointed if we don't use FA to upgrade the position. It's one of the few positions where good players actually seem to hit the market. I think it'll be a lot harder to get a good CB or OT in FA.

On Cousins: I don't think it'll be as simple as the scheme propping the next guy up. We had trouble with Rex, McNabb, and Beck before we got these rookies. I do like some of the mid to late round options in this year's class, but I don't think they'll be as good as Cousins.

Cousins did make some plays yesterday and had a crucial first down completion at the end of the game that he thread into triple coverage. He has some playmaker in him, he's clutch and he's got great intangibles. He was a draft gem, I remember at the beginning of last season I think I had him as a second rounder.

Maybe I would think about dealing him if we thought Landry Jones or EJ Manuel would be available in a good range for us. Maybe Mike Glennon.

I'd be tempted to say getting a good backup with a 4th was a win and table the issue until his contract starts to run out.

[The Tris]

Mostly agree with WR thoughts as well. I think there is a tremendous ceiling for AR though, and next year he could make a huge jump.

Not sure why he can't be a middle-classman's Antonio Brown. 5'10", 180 lb, 24-year-old burner 6th rounder with 4.45 speed. Brown got to play with a real QB from the jump, so he's a year ahead developmentally. Let's see what year-3 of route running and year-2 of RGIII brings.

2010 Brown: 9 G, 0 STs; 16 for 167 (10.4), 0 TDs
2012 Robinson: 13 G, 2 STs; 11 for 237 (21.4), 3 TDs

[darrelgreenie]

- the unit is productive and they are coming together

BUT

- drops are a problem
- TE is a problem
- there is a lack of high end talent and upside in the unit compared to other teams
- I don't think we have a guy to replace Moss as he ages on the roster today
- I don't like the FA market for WRs this year. Not a lot of unproven guys hungry for their chance (Garcons). A lot of big name guys with baggage.
- I really like the draft class for WRs

I think the receiver discussion is skewed by the Steelers game where there was an abnormal number of drops. But, until someone shows me otherwise I have no reason to believe we drop any more passes then any other NFL team. ( a quick comparison on SI shows Griffin has 26 passes dropped, Romo 25, Manning 27)

Griffin has mentioned it himself the style of offense doesn't lend itself to huge receiving numbers.
The run/pass ratio is balanced and they rotate a bunch of players. Imagine the numbers if the targets were centralized? The production numbers would be different. I am completely happy with letting our receivers develop. I think we should restructure Moss and bring him back to lead/mentor the WR group and be a productive WR.

I like our TEs even without Davis and if Davis is re-signed then that group would receive an A from me. Paulsen is a poor man's Witten. Paul is a wildcard.

At the end of the day I feel like people are completely passing over the quality of our current offense.
We're now 4th in yards and 5th in scoring and we're only in year 1 of the offense.
Imo we should be over joyed.

[stevemcqueen1]

I guess the question is, how much could you get for Cousins, and how much would you invest in a backup QB. For instance, if you could get a 2nd and a 3rd for Cousins, would you ever look at your starting QB situation and say, "I would trade a 2nd round pick and a 3d round pick for a solid backup". For most of us, the answer is, "No".

If I could get a 2nd and a 3rd, I would trade cousins. We would then have 2 picks in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds. That is a significant reload.

Mcqueen, didn't you reference a really athletic OT prospect earlier in ths thread that compares athletically to Trent Williams? Who is that?

I honestly can't remember. Thinking about it now, I don't really know who that would be from an athletic standpoint. Taylor Lewan is a fantastic athlete in terms of agility/speed but he's not strong like Trent. Joeckel is a great athlete but not under the radar. Fluker bigger and more powerful than Trent and is a good straight line runner but he's not nearly as agile. Hmm... I'm not really sure who it would have been. You've got me thinking. Was it Chris Long's brother Kyle Long? Great athlete but not up there with Trent.

That 2nd and 3rd rounder offer is amazing and would make me trade Cousins. His value could appreciate, but that's already a big enough offer for me to pull the trigger. That's two good starters or some really good situational players ideally. Win-win for everyone since the other guy gets a good starting QB and Kirk gets to start. With two picks in each of rounds 2-4 in this class you could add so much talent at DB, OT, WR, and HB. I could spend another mid to late rounder on a QB this year, I really do like Landry Jones.

I also wouldn't rule out getting Tyrod Taylor as an option to fill my backup QB position.

[darrelgreenie]

Well yeah DG, I honestly think Compton right now is a better OT than Polumbus

lol, I've felt that way since training camp. I also thought Willie Smith was better and guess how the grade out by PFF?

[Dukes and Skins]

lol, I've felt that way since training camp. I also thought Willie Smith was better and guess how the grade out by PFF?

We just might get our chance to see Compton on Sunday too

[darrelgreenie]

Yeah we need to use FA to get a good FS IMO. I like Mundy and Quin and want us to sign one of them. I'll be disappointed if we don't use FA to upgrade the position. It's one of the few positions where good players actually seem to hit the market. I think it'll be a lot harder to get a good CB or OT in FA.

I'm trying to zero in on the S market in draft and I really like this S class. And I think we could upgrade our current FS/SS with several players. But then again upgrading from Maddie Williams and Reed Doughty shouldn't be hard.

On Cousins: I don't think it'll be as simple as the scheme propping the next guy up. We had trouble with Rex, McNabb, and Beck before we got these rookies. I do like some of the mid to late round options in this year's class, but I don't think they'll be as good as Cousins.......Cousins did make some plays yesterday and had a crucial first down completion at the end of the game that he thread into triple coverage. He has some playmaker in him, he's clutch and he's got great intangibles. He was a draft gem, I remember at the beginning of last season I think I had him as a second rounder.

I don't want to re-hash every QB we've had but they've all been productive in accordance with their surrounding talent and play calling. McNabb wasn't playing poorly, it was off the field stuff. Rex is a terrible QB and he productive enought to beat the Giants twice. Lets not forget Cousins had the benefit of what 3 turnover aided short fields? I like Cousin's but he's not a rare or difficult to replace prospect. I think once again, the moment is causing an over evaluation.

I'd be tempted to say getting a good backup with a 4th was a win and table the issue until his contract starts to run out.

If there is actually current value in trading Cousins, I say sell high.

---------- Post added December-17th-2012 at 01:49 PM ----------

I also wouldn't rule out getting Tyrod Taylor as an option to fill my backup QB position.

I grade Tyrod Taylor higher then Kirk Cousins.

[Laron Burgundy]

X2 I like Rambo alot.


Quick question would you guys pull the trigger.

Cousins for Aboushi, Vaccarro or Poyer straight up?

Wouldn't do it. Maybe Cousins will be worth a first in a couple years, but we also need a good insurance policy for if Griffin gets hurt. We've lucked out that his injuries have not been major this year, but a concussion and knee sprain in one year isn't a great sign. A great backup qb at near league minimum? I'll take that for a few years. Look at arizona as an example when you have horrid qb depth. Granted their entire situation is a mess, but when your backups are 3rd draft day quality qb's who either have no experience or have proven they aren't viable nfl starters, well, it's no surprise Arizona nosedived as soon as Kolb went down. And yes I'm aware Cousins was a 3rd day pick, but we drafted him because he fell far below where we had him rated. Most scouts saw him as a 2nd rounder.

And yes, Grossman is a decent enough backup, but Cousins is making 1 million less per year, is already on contract for the next 4 years, and has a lot more promise than Rex.

[gorebd82]

Overall I see room for us to add a starting caliber TE and an every down receiver, preferably one with some size and/or quickness, who can line up on the outside of formations. I think our best bet at getting these kinds of players is in the draft. It's a pretty good class and I really like Quinton Patton.

We really need to address TE and S through FA the more I think about it. Those are positions where you can get great value in FA. I wasn't so high on the idea of signing Mundy, especially since he's a guy that already was on the Skins and couldn't make the cut. But then I started to realize that we have the most insight on him from a health and ability standpoint, our scouts already took notice of his talent, and he's spent a couple of seasons learning this scheme under LeBeau. I think he can grow in this scheme like Ryan Clark has for Pittsburgh. It's only fair that get Mundy back after sending both guys to the Steelers.

As for TE, we need an immediate solution, but I'm not sold on moving on from Fred. I think Jermichael Finley is a great target for us. He's a guy that can temporarily replace Fred and they can complement each other long term. Both should come at discounted rates. That TE duo could almost rival NE and gives us even more flexibility to give exotic looks to defenses. Finley brings the right skillset to provide some things we may be looking for in our unit and that we'd expect to come from a WR without blocking the development of Hankerson and Aldrick.

I think that gives flexibility to wait until early day 3 to target a WR and S since the classes are so deep. That frees us up to target OT, CB, stud front 7 player, and dynamic slot WR/3rd down back. Those positions don't last long on draft day. We need to really maximize positional value and depth. I'd much rather let Mundy, Tanard, Meriweather, Duke Williams play out than spend our top pick on this 2nd round S crop when there's not considered much talent gap amongst the top ten safeties in the class.

[darrelgreenie]

As for TE, we need an immediate solution..

Why? I don't see how our current TE situation is limiting our offense.

And, again FA is zero sum. Every yes at one position in FA is a no at another position.

I'd much rather let Mundy, Tanard, Meriweather, Duke Williams play out than spend our top pick on this 2nd round S crop when there's not considered much talent gap amongst the top ten safeties in the class.

How do you rate/rank the current crop of S?
Why do you think there isn't much of a talent gap between them?

[Laron Burgundy]

As for TE, we need an immediate solution, but I'm not sold on moving on from Fred. I think Jermichael Finley is a great target for us. He's a guy that can temporarily replace Fred and they can complement each other long term. Both should come at discounted rates. That TE duo could almost rival NE and gives us even more flexibility to give exotic looks to defenses. Finley brings the right skillset to provide some things we may be looking for in our unit and that we'd expect to come from a WR without blocking the development of Hankerson and Aldrick.

Completely disagree on Finley, that guy is a cancer. Beyond that he is perpetually over-rated. Watching him in Green Bay he is an AWFUL blocker and he stops playing hard if he doesn't see targets early. Maybe he plays for our team, but maybe he doesn't. I've had enough of those type of players since we got Fat Al. In the last year and a half I think Finley has had 16 drops by himself, he accounts for nearly a 3rd of Green Bay's drops despite only seeing 17% of his team's targets (and to note 20 tight ends have been targeted more than him, despite him playing every game and being almost primarily a receiving tight end only). Just had to rant on that because I have a feeling a lot of people will post about wanting Finley when he gets put up for trade.

That said, I'm fully comfortable going with Paulsen as the starter next year. A player like Dion Sims would be a solid 3rd day pickup as a blocking tight end with some receiving ability. He's not extremely fluid, but at 285 pounds he can box out just about anyone. Lots of really good tight ends though, many of them are a lot better receiving options than Sims, but I think he gives us something we don't exactly have at tight end (and you know how this offense seems to like specialization and variety). Wouldn't at all mind drafting a tight end if one falls, don't think we'll extend Fred Davis.

[Warpath11]

We just might get our chance to see Compton on Sunday too

I dont know if this is just coincidence but if Polumbus can not go we may see Compton indeed. Jordan Black has been busted for PEDs

[Dukes and Skins]

I dont know if this is just coincidence but if Polumbus can not go we may see Compton indeed. Jordan Black has been busted for PEDs

That was pure coincidence haha

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Why are so many people writing off Fred Davis for next year? I know achilles injuries are tough to come back from but he is pretty solid physically and should be able to come back.

Even if he comes back at less than his normal self, we should be able to sign him for cheap and roll with him and Paulsen for next year right? Maybe sign a solid backup TE in Free Agency if we decide to stop the Niles Paul experiment. I am comfortable with that.