2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[darrelgreenie]

This is a different point to your previous point that the decisions need to be looked at that made M. Williams a starter.

Not at all.

The simple fact is that the team, because of the $18M cap penalty, did not have the money to throw around and the ability to address every issue on the team.

This a false assumption on your part. I have never said they had money to throw around and address every issue on the team.

They found 2 players they thought, rightly or wrongly, would be an upgrade from the players from last year.

This is the crux of the matter. Imo they selected the wrong players. Even if they weren't suspended or injured I don't think TJ and Meriweather were good enough answers to the S position.

But, the team is bringing a knife to a gun fight for the next 2 years with the penalty. There is no way that they could fill every hole on the team, trade up to draft the franchise QB. Something had to give. It appears as though backup safety was a gamble they were willing to make.

This suggests that there no decisions they could have made that would have been better then TJ and Brandon and Maddie. I disagree.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Not at all.

This a false assumption on your part. I have never said they had money to throw around and address every issue on the team.

This is the crux of the matter. Imo they selected the wrong players. Even if they weren't suspended or injured I don't think TJ and Meriweather were good enough answers to the S position.

This suggests that there no decisions they could have made that would have been better then TJ and Brandon and Maddie. I disagree.

Your original quote states that they need to revisit the decisions that lead to M. Williams starting at Safety for our Burgandy and Gold. That's the one where a number of people have jumped on.

Then, when myself and others came back and said, well, the plan was never that M. Williams would start, you changed to (I'm paraphrasing) "They selected Tanard and Meriweather, who weren't the right players to start with"

Those two things are different points, and different arguments.

They are not the same point. I'm going to address both, because I'm not sure which you're trying to make.

If you are arguing that they picked the wrong players to begin with, then I'd say they get an incomplete grade. We do not know who they could have gotten, or how good they could have been. We don't know how much cap room they had, which other players they went after, and signed elsewhere, or what players they wanted and couldn't go after.

We don't even know how good the guys who they selected could be. The roster has several players on it where they were average or released by other teams, and the 'Skins picked them up and plugged them in, and they've been very good. 2 examples, Cofield at NT, the Giants cut him lose, and he's been our best defensive lineman. And Chester on the OL, was cast off from the Ravens, and he's been nothing but solid on the right side of the OL. Not every move has worked, see Atogwe. But you can't always project how a player will do here based on how they did elsewhere.

If you are arguing that we need to analyze what decisions were made that lead to M. Williams starting, it's just a different point. In that case, the question is, were there better options for backup safety available that would be an upgrade, for an even lower cap number than the starter? Any suggestion that Shanahan and Has wanted M. Williams to start at any point is probably wrong. Were there other backup Safeties out there on the market that they could pick up for ~$890k for 1 year? Dunno the answer to that.

[darrelgreenie]

Your original quote states that they need to revisit the decisions that lead to M. Williams starting at Safety for our Burgandy and Gold. That's the one where a number of people have jumped on.

I think its important to examine the personnel decisions that result in Maddie Williams being the starting FS for our burgundy and gold.

Then its critical to avoid repeating those decisions.

Then, when myself and others came back and said, well, the plan was never that M. Williams would start, you changed to (I'm paraphrasing) "They selected Tanard and Meriweather, who weren't the right players to start with"

Those two things are different points, and different arguments.

Um I only made one 'argument'. I quoted my first post about the Safety position above. And I made no argument. Only a call to examine personnel decisions.

We don't even know how good the guys who they selected could be. The roster has several players on it where they were average or released by other teams, and the 'Skins picked them up and plugged them in, and they've been very good. 2 examples, Cofield at NT, the Giants cut him lose, and he's been our best defensive lineman. And Chester on the OL, was cast off from the Ravens, and he's been nothing but solid on the right side of the OL. Not every move has worked, see Atogwe. But you can't always project how a player will do here based on how they did elsewhere.

Every situation is different. Cofield, Bowen and even Chester weren't reclamation projects like TJ and Meriweather. And when you have TJ and Meriweather as the main cogs in the rotation then it lowers the bar for the depth players like Maddie. We brought in 3 S none of whom were starters. That imo is clearly different from Cofield, Bruce and Chester. (also Chester's plays improved this season but last season he was one of the worst OG in the NFL per PFF)

Imo Atogwe (a move I was against) decision was repeated when we got TJ and Meriweather.

If you are arguing that we need to analyze what decisions were made that lead to M. Williams starting, it's just a different point.

I state this quite clearly (posted above). I think you've misunderstood somehow.

In that case, the question is, were there better options for backup safety available that would be an upgrade, for an even lower cap number than the starter?

There are several questions that can arise from looking at the decisions that lead to Maddie being a starter.

Were there other backup Safeties out there on the market that they could pick up for ~$890k for 1 year? Dunno the answer to that.

From memory? The Ravens S tandem, Craig Steltz, Corey Lynch

[stevemcqueen1]

He's saying Tanard and Merriweather were bad plans because they were obviously sketchy signings with no need for hindsight. They were long shots, we gambled, we failed, we reaped what we sewed.

It was clear from day one they were desperation signings. We let LaRon go without a backup plan for replacing him and we haven't been able to nail down the other safety spot since Sean died. Maybe we had other designs for safety that got screwed by the suddenness of the cap penalties. What we know is that the secondary very clearly fell apart last season, we didn't bolster it in the draft, and we scotch taped it together with one year deal journeymen and risky reclamation projects.

Those were the decisions that led to Williams becoming the starter.

Moving forward we can help ourselves by finding more reliable (and expensive) options in FA and spending picks on quality prospects in the draft. We need two new starting caliber safeties brought in from outside the organization. We probably need another CB from outside too, preferably one who can start.

We also probably need to bring in a RT from outside unless Compton shows out.

We need to bring in RBs from outside and a TE too IMO.

And while we have bodies at WR and in the interior of the OL, I believe we could see major benefit from upgrades here.

And depending on how Keenan Robinson and Brian Orakpo come back from their injuries, we may need to bring in new blood at LBer too.

[Dukes and Skins]

While Margus Hunt had a great game tonight, still a late 3rd round pick for me

[NLC1054]

1.) The safety market was deader than the Undertaker. Every half decent safety either re-signed with their original team or got franchised tagged. None of the safeties on the market were guys you would call "starters". Especially at free safety. Madieu sucks, but it's not entirely surprising that we signed him, especially if we thought Tanard and Meriweather could play.

2.) And its worth mentioning that when Meriweather did play, this defense looked the best it did all season. The 2 and a half quarters he put together were pretty damn impressive, he was a solid tackler, he wasn't out of position. Saying Meriweather was a bad plan because of a freak injury the first time and then another freak injury the next time isn't exactly fair; when he did play, he played well. The injury bug bit him.

3.) Football teams don't let quality safeties go. This past offseason was a clear example of how important safety play is; not one of the big time free agent safeties made it to free agency. What's more likely is that guys like Meriweather and Tanard make it free agency and we take our chances.

[Chump Bailey]

I happen to like Safety DJ Swearinger quite a bit. Do you think he should be on our radar as a sleeper in the mid-rounds?

[Dukes and Skins]

I happen to like Safety DJ Swearinger quite a bit. Do you think he should be on our radar as a sleeper in the mid-rounds?

He pretty much has everything you want in a safety just from Mike Shanahan's perspective. He's a guy who I think goes in the 3rd round. Have been hearing that he could go earlier than expected though

[Dukes and Skins]

http://draftbreakdown.com/chris-thom...s-clemson-2012

That run around the 3:30 mark. DAMN.

[darrelgreenie]

I happen to like Safety DJ Swearinger quite a bit. Do you think he should be on our radar as a sleeper in the mid-rounds?

I like DJ also, I have him as my 8th S prospect. I see him as a depth/developmental SS somewhere in the middle rounds and down. I hope we look to address the FS position with a starting caliber player.

Here is my S rankings:

Reid-FS
McDonald-FS
Hall-FS (40 time is gonna be big for him)
Rambo-FS
Elam-SS/FS
Vaccaro-SS/FS
Duke Williams-FS (but small school prospect)
Swearinger-SS
Phillip Thomas-SS

I haven't compared this S class to against the previous safety class but it appears to be a deep draft at the S position.

[Laron Burgundy]

I've said it many times in this thread, but man I'm a huge fan of Kyle Van Noy. Just got done watching his bowl game and I don't know if he could have had a better game before going pro. 8 tackles, 3.5 tfl, 1.5 sacks, 1 FF, 1 FR, 1 int, 1 blocked punt and 2 td's. He has everything you want in a linebacker except size, though his size is adequate. I don't think he's the elite athlete Von Miller is by any means, but like Von he does everything well and he's a guy that I think you could put at ILB and have an absolute stud. He reminds me a lot of Daryl Washington or Lawrence Timmons. Looks like currently a 2nd round projection, and may just be the bpa at our pick. Can't have too many playmakers on defense. A draft class of him, Matthieu and Rambo would make me feel pretty comfortable about our defense going forward. Seems like our defense lives and dies off turnovers, so might as well get more guys who can make plays.

[Dukes and Skins]

Yeah Laron, Van Noy had a dominant performance. Right now he's a mid 2nd rounder ala Daryl Washington when he was coming out, but if he continues a strong offseason theres no reason why he couldn't sneak into the late 1st

[skinzwiz]

http://draftbreakdown.com/chris-thom...s-clemson-2012

That run around the 3:30 mark. DAMN.

I was talking about him earlier. Someone was saying his skillset for his size was not enough, but I whole-heartedly disagree. He has good speed, quickness, shiftiness, and showed some power on some runs in that very video you have there.

He also catches well out of the backfield from what I've seen and easily would be an upgrade and better change of pace back than Royster. Someone kept talking about he wasn't productive. Injuries kept him from putting up the big numbers. The guy averaged like 10 yards a carry when he played.

Another great thing about Thompson is that he can be got late din the draft. I have him as my 6th round pick, but if he was healthier in college, I guarantee he would be drafted much earlier.

[Dukes and Skins]

I was talking about him earlier. Someone was saying his skillset for his size was not enough, but I whole-heartedly disagree. He has good speed, quickness, shiftiness, and showed some power on some runs in that very video you have there.

He also catches well out of the backfield from what I've seen and easily would be an upgrade and better change of pace back than Royster. Someone kept talking about he wasn't productive. Injuries kept him from putting up the big numbers. The guy averaged like 10 yards a carry when he played.

Another great thing about Thompson is that he can be got late din the draft. I have him as my 6th round pick, but if he was healthier in college, I guarantee he would be drafted much earlier.

I have him as a 6th rounder and like I said on twitter today, if he can recover from that ACL injury, he could very well become the top 3rd down RB in the NFL. A rare guy that'll slip because of his injury history, but has a very high upside

[KERRAKPO9198]

Anybody seen much of Bacarri Rambo? I've read a little bit about him and he seems like he could be a potential star at the next level.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PczX7Ej1b34 Rambo

http://scm-l3.technorati.com/10/04/30/12345/rambo.jpg