2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[STBonecrusher21]

Ohhh man.

Gotta feel bad for Tom Wort going after those freaks of Moore and Collins.

[A_SKIN_OR_DIE]

BIG PROPS and fellow fans. Being a team scout seems to be fun. Looking at mock drafts is a headache. I hope we fill our needs and with the thought of best player on the board in mind.

From what I have watched I liked these guys WR C Vernon and W Terrance and LB C Washington. LB C Washington I would like as ILB. He can take away those middle throwing lanes.

[Laron Burgundy]

I think it's foolish to take a 5 minute segment on NFL Total Access and talk about how smart he is or isn't.

Robert Griffin III is a once in a lifetime talent, and I'm pretty sure he's got a photographic memory too. But RG3 also occasionally slips on the wordy terminology. Mooch gave Robert a much less wordy play, with much less to think about. And Robert STILL got the formation wrong.

It was "Brown Right", but Robert called it "Blue Right". He drew the Brown Right formation on the board, but if he did that in a game it'd be completely different. I didn't dock Robert for that.

But Brown Right F-Short 2 Jet Flanker Drive is a lot less to remember than Brown Left Z-Left Sprint Right G U Corner Halfback Flat. The latter has a lot more moving parts going on. Or would you criticize Aaron Rodgers for this one even though he's been in the offense since 2005?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W4DgU52KTE

Geno's never called a play in a huddle, in the spot in a tense situation. I'd expect Matt Barkley to do way better because he's actually been in a huddle and the terminology.

The problem wasn't that he messed up the terminology, that I can see, but messing up the play design is a little troubling. Having watched that video once last night, I can still draw it out as well as show the read progressions. It was not that complex.

And I am not at all just talking about RG3's charisma. Players like Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, Luck, and Wilson are all tuned in. You can tell just by interviews that each of them are very bright. It's not just a judgment based on this one clip, but in interviews something about his demeanor just seems off.

---------- Post added February-25th-2013 at 03:48 PM ----------

His FR year he had 20 td 2 ints. Dang good if you ask me. He's football smart which only matters. I don't care if he doesn't sound intelligent as long as he is football smart. His TD to Int ratio tells me he's smart with the ball.

The stats I see for his freshman year is 1 td 1 int. His sophomore year was 24:7. Certainly not poor numbers throughout his career, but he didn't exactly face murder's row of defenses while playing in the big east and big 12. Plenty of college players appear football smart without actually being great pro prospects. Heck, people would have called Matt Barkley football smart had he left college last year.

[Monk4thaHALL]

Really I'd like to get a RB that brings a different element to the offense than we already have like a Chris Thompson type of maybe Kerwin Williams.

Let me tell you man, Kerwynn Williams is a damn good player. And he's underrated.

He's got the best balance and best feet that I saw yesterday. Smooth transition and decisive cuts, that's what I saw and it aligns with what I saw before on his Utah St. games. And I'm really high on him.

There was that drill where the RBs have to high-knee over 4 dummy bags laying on the ground. They chomp their legs, high-knee, over the bags, they stare straight ahead at the coach and make a cut based on how coach leans.

Let me tell you, Kerwynn Williams' upper torso didn't move an inch in his cut. It was like he had go-go-gadget legs and they did the hip flip, plant foot and change direction while everything else with his body was placid and smooth.

No herky-jerky at all. He was just so good.

And when you watch his Utah State stuff, he was dangerous as a pass catcher out of the backfield.


Speaking of which let me give him a round projection, hahaha.

I say 4th round round talent. Because he's in my top 10 of RBs. That's the base right now, for me.

Actually just did a quick once through and put him # 9 overall.

But I hope he's there in the 5th. And only because he's undersized. Otherwise, if he were two inches taller, 10 pounds heavier, and stride longer - he'd be fighting for top-5 - imo.

Whether he gets selected there, IDK. I want to make a mock in which he is there in the 5th for the Skins. Which is substantially different from CBS' current grade of "6th/7th."

[Laron Burgundy]

Double post.

[SemperFi Skins]

Knile Davis - RB - Player Arkansas RB Knile Davis' "Speed Score" of 124.5 is the second highest ever recorded by Football Outsiders based on player build and speed.
The "Speed Score" uses a mathematical formula in an attempt to measure speed given size. Speed Score has plenty of historical flaws, but has accurately predicted busts like Knowshon Moreno while forecasting Chris Johnson and Brandon Jacobs' success. The all-time leader in "Speed Score" is current Broncos RB Mario Fannin (125.5), who went undrafted out of Auburn and has done nothing in the NFL. Nevertheless, Davis has a special speed-size combination and will be a mid- to late-round pick to monitor in the 2013 preseason.
Source: ESPN Insider Feb 25 - 3:44 PM

[STBonecrusher21]

I don't know if you guys checked out any of Jamie Collins' film. After seeing these crazy numbers he's putting up at the combine, I decided to take a look.

I came away VERY unimpressed for a player physically capable of the things he did today. I saw way too many times him getting handled by the TE, and at the level he's trying out for, once is too many times imo. The only time he seemed to make plays is when he came unblocked. When he he did come free he made the play, but that's not gonna happen at the next level. When he didn't come free he was blocked pretty easily. If he didn't win initially (which was not often) he'd get put on a rail.

Athletic guy, but he just doesn't have that "twitch" word we keep hearing Mayock and co. use. He could be a depth player/spot duty and good special teamer with that athletic ability and physical stature, but I don't see much more than that.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

I think it's foolish to take a 5 minute segment on NFL Total Access and talk about how smart he is or isn't.

But Brown Right F-Short 2 Jet Flanker Drive is a lot less to remember than Brown Left Z-Left Sprint Right G U Corner Halfback Flat. The latter has a lot more moving parts going on. Or would you criticize Aaron Rodgers for this one even though he's been in the offense since 2005?

.

As long as Geno doesn't throw Venus on a Spyder 3 Y Banana, I think he will be ok

[Monk4thaHALL]

Michael was in the 4th-5th range but has since moved up.

That's not what I've seen. I've seen CBS and Draft Scout have him in the 3rd for a long time, despite limited touches and production. More recently he seemed to slid to that "3rd/4th" ranking they currently have, after Franklin had some good games at UCLA and leapfrogged him.

I still doubt that he goes in the second though. Late third early 4th is where he would go imo.

Well that's the consensus thought based on what happened last year. The # 8 RB went in the 4th, that was Lamar Miller. And the # 9 RB went in the 4th as well, that was Robert Turbin. A similarly thick muscular back that had speed. Sounds like Michael.

That's also where CBS projects him right now in fact. "3/4." It's where they have had him for awhile now.

So that's house money.

But projection of round is a funny thing. We all do it and we all have different factors that we equate into what round we peg a guy in. But ultimately round projection, by and large, is guess work. It's affected by so many different factors.

Because it really comes down to how you rank the position. That's really what we're doing. We're saying I think this guy is the # 3 player at his position and historically (last few drafts) the # 3 goes off the board in the blah-blah round.

Then after you rank the position itself, it's how you rank that position vs other positions in a Big-Board. Then it comes down to your board vs team deficiencies. Then you have to correlate value and whether you can get a similar player for less investment a round or two later.

Then you have take into account maybe the guy you really wanted is gone and what do you?

- Do settle for someone else?
- Can you move down?
- What if you can't move down?
- etc, etc.


So last year:

# 1, # 2 & # 3 RB went in the 1st last year.
# 4 & # 5 RB went in the 2nd last year.
# 6 & # 7 RB went in the 3rd last year.
# 8 went at the very top of the 4th last year.


So I mean, could he go like Robert Turbin in the 4th, sure. I can see that. But I just don't think the guys ahead of Michael, this year (Taylor and Franklin per CBS) are better. I think there's very little separation between # 3, # 4 through # 7 to # 8.

So obviously CBS and any other place where you get these projections ... I mean they, by and large, are going to go chalk. They are going to go with consensus thought which aligns with the previous year's distribution/tally.

Essentially they don't want to do anything too drastic or leftfield, because they don't want to look a fool.

Other places, blogs, websites of less repute, go for sensationalism in order to stand out, draw vies. CBS wants to keep doing this year in and year out, so that can't be too wrong. So that's why I think there's a good bit of group think when it comes to draft projection.


So it all depends on where you rank Michael with all the other RBs ... is he in your Top-5, # 6 or # 7, # 8 or # 10?

That's the first question. Where do you rank him?

Currently CBS and Draft Scout rank him as the # 8 RB. But when you look at his size, his speed, since he's 220+ & very defined muscle, ran that fast 40 with 10 yard split, he looked that thick ... can you say that you would select Johnathan Franklin and/or Stepfan Taylor before him?

I think there's reasonable doubt when you compare those three guys.

I don't know if I like either Franklin or Taylor more than him. They both have less body than him. It's not that I necessarily think Michael is all that, but I'm just not enamored with some of the guys ranked ahead of him. So I differentiate from CBS. .

Then you have to play it by how the draft unfolds. What if other teams start selecting RBs and they run through the top 5 RBs really quickly, faster than last year?

You know. So, that's the weird thing, at least to me, about projections.

But I still do it myself. Just like with Kerwynn Williams. So it's all fun.

[NLC1054]

The problem wasn't that he messed up the terminology, that I can see, but messing up the play design is a little troubling. Having watched that video once last night, I can still draw it out as well as show the read progressions. It was not that complex.

The difference is, you have the benefit of having it in video form, well after the fact, without your mind racing about a million other questions. As another example, Andy Dalton also screwed up when he did this interview with Mooch. Most guys who do this thing with Mooch mess up in some way.

And I am not at all just talking about RG3's charisma. Players like Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, Luck, and Wilson are all tuned in. You can tell just by interviews that each of them are very bright. It's not just a judgment based on this one clip, but in interviews something about his demeanor just seems off.

You sound like all the people who complained that RG3 seemed arrogant for saying he'd compete with Peyton Manning, and then proceeded to call him arrogant and selfish based off interviews.

[Alcoholic Zebra]

Cornelius Washington, impressive.

But again, these guys that show such athleticism, such raw talent. I mean, trust me, I watch his Senior Bowl stuff and I read some favorable reviews from that week, in which Offensive Tackles said he was really tough to block.

Well, went to find some Georgia stuff and was totally stunned at the lack of real production. Could hardly find him. I mean, for a late round flyer, why not. I can see the upside. But talk about an enigma when looking at guys in pads. He's like witness protection, hidden on film.

You aren't kidding about his measurables. I haven't looked for him on film and know next to nothing, but just a quick question or two that could maybe explain it? Are coaches asking him to do one thing over and over to help set up Jarvis Jones?

Does he at least show as much burst as his measurables indicate he should have?

[Dukes and Skins]

I don't know if you guys checked out any of Jamie Collins' film. After seeing these crazy numbers he's putting up at the combine, I decided to take a look.

I came away VERY unimpressed for a player physically capable of the things he did today. I saw way too many times him getting handled by the TE, and at the level he's trying out for, once is too many times imo. The only time he seemed to make plays is when he came unblocked. When he he did come free he made the play, but that's not gonna happen at the next level. When he didn't come free he was blocked pretty easily. If he didn't win initially (which was not often) he'd get put on a rail.

Athletic guy, but he just doesn't have that "twitch" word we keep hearing Mayock and co. use. He could be a depth player/spot duty and good special teamer with that athletic ability and physical stature, but I don't see much more than that.

Watched a few games of Collins and felt the same way. Wanted to see more out of him on film than I did

[Alcoholic Zebra]

So last year:

# 1, # 2 & # 3 RB went in the 1st last year.
# 4 & # 5 RB went in the 2nd last year.
# 6 & # 7 RB went in the 3rd last year.
# 8 went at the very top of the 4th last year.

I liked your post, but just to expand upon this:

2011:
#1 went in the 1st
#2, #3, #4, #5 went in the 2nd
#6, #7, #8 went in the 3rd
#9 (Roy Helu) went in the 4th

2010:
#1, #2, #3 went in the 1st
#4, #5, #6 went in the 2nd
#7 went in the 4th
#8 went in the 5th

2009:
#1, #2, #3 went in the 1st
#4 went in the 2nd
#5, #6 went in the 3rd
#7, 8, 9, and 10 went in the 4th.

So on average the Top 5 RB's go in the 2nd round or higher. I would not be surprised if this year resembled 2011 more, with just Eddie Lacy in the 1st and then a run on guys in the 2nd round. It's easily possible that Christine Michael is picked before the 4th.

I didn't include 2008 where it skews all of these projections, but this class is not as talented as that one was, and the 8th RB went at I think the 1st pick in round 3.

---------- Post added February-25th-2013 at 04:45 PM ----------

Let me tell you man, Kerwynn Williams is a damn good player. And he's underrated.

And when you watch his Utah State stuff, he was dangerous as a pass catcher out of the backfield.

I know it's a highlight reel and that makes everyone look good, but two of the catches they showed looked VERY good. Both were awkward but he grabbed it away from his body, and then turned around and made them into big gains.

He seems exactly like the guy Kyle Shanahan said he wanted.

I can't really tell much about how often he fumbles, but he did fumble in a crucial situation in his Bowl game this year. Here's the recap:

BOISE, Idaho -- Utah State running back Kerwynn Williams was having a quiet day when things took a turn for the worse in the fourth quarter when he fumbled deep in his own territory. As it has all season, the Aggies' defense did its job, holding Toledo to a field goal that cut the lead to 13-9 with 7:28 to go. Then Williams atoned for his mistake -- in a big way.

On the next possession, Williams broke through the defense and raced 63 yards for a touchdown. On the next two possessions, the senior was unstoppable, ripping off a 56-yard run and scoring TDs on runs of 5 and 25 yards, all within a span of less than 4 minutes to lift No. 18 Utah State to a 41-15 victory over Toledo in the Famous Idaho Potato Bowl on Saturday.

He bounced back well.

[Monk4thaHALL]

From what I remember he was just a situational guy. I saw him at DE, I think. Liek when Georgia went to a 4 man line, he was either head-up on the RT at 5 Tech or outside at 7 Tech. And he would usually stunt inside or just bull rush.

But it was during wrinkle packages. Like in the video below, you'll see teh 4 man line.

And there were a couple plays where they had 3 defensive lineman with J. Jones in 2-point at the Line, so essentially 4 guys at the LOS. That's different wrinkle than having 3 D-linemen at 5, 0, 5 Tech, with two Rush LBs flanked to each side for a total of 5 guys at the LOS.

The Georgia D, which we all know was a 2-Gap 3-4 defense, well sometimes they seemed to line-up kind-of like a 4-3 Over defense. So, I think he was like a 4-3 DE. Maybe he rush stand-up like an OLB every once and a while ... IDK.

He did some special teams.

I'm not a UGA guy, so maybe I can lure out our resident Bulldog provost ...
__


This is what I've got on Washington

Cornelius Washington - LB - Georgia


...

Article on Senior Bowl week:

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2...rnelius_w.html

...


My mind's eye brings him up as a 4-3 DE. But in our scheme he would have to transition to OLB.
__

Vid in the link:
http://www.examiner.com/video/cornel...ton-sack-v-msu

^ They mention some off-field stuff.

I guess every Georgia player essentially has some kind-of "record," or off-field thing. Wild

[Monk4thaHALL]

This is Washington's NFL profile page:
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/...ton?id=2539232

Their opinion:

Overview

Washington was named to the 2012 Butkus Award preseason watch list prior to the season, despite lacking much starting experience. That’s the sort of respect that those who know college football have for his physical attributes and potential as a pass rush force.

Washington was a top-150 national high school prospect out of Georgia, but still redshirted his first season on campus.

He played in every game of the 2009 season, starting one and making 13 tackles, five for loss and four sacks.

As a sophomore, he started eight of 12 games played (missed one due to a concussion) and was credited with 24 tackles, three for loss, and a sack.

It appeared he was on his way to a big season in 2011, starting three of the first five contests before being suspended two games due to an October arrest for speeding and driving under the influence (he received community service, alcohol/drug education program, probation). He finished with six starts in 12 games, with 17 tackles, six for loss and five sacks.

2012: Washington's senior season didn't match up to the preseason hype, as he only managed 22 tackles (3 for loss), and half of a sack.

Analysis

Strengths

Tall, versatile defender who flashes excellent get-off to challenge tackles as a pass rusher with his hand on the ground or standing up. Possesses great length, which he uses to powerfully extend into blockers and to wrap up a leg on a ballcarrier running away from him. Flashes hands to rip off blocks from overextending tackles and tight ends, as well as the quickness to shoot inside to penetrate the B-gap to disrupt plays. Makes a big hit when head-up on the ball, and can use his long, strong arms to create turnovers.

Weaknesses

Often used as a third-down presence instead of a starter because of the team’s depth and scheme. Doesn’t own a counter move or the second effort to get past a solid block; teams need to see better stamina and hustle before projecting him as a starter. His height and average flexibility cause him to change directions relatively slowly on the edge and in the backfield, meaning he loses out on opportunities to make plays. Needs to prove his agility in coverage if asked to regularly take on receivers in man.

Bottom Line

A tall, long defensive end/rush linebacker who hasn’t been able to break through quite yet, but flashes the strength and quickness (10 career sacks) to be a factor. The production has never been there, but Washington's flashes and potential will likely result in a team selecting him to contribute down the line