2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[darrelgreenie]

I hope people aren't talked out about the DBs yet.
I wanna get home and re-watch and see what pops and discuss.
I think some market corrections took place today.

[Dukes and Skins]

Not talked out here. Have an exam tomorrow but I'm more than happy to discuss them

[stevemcqueen1]

Dee Milliner didn't have a lot to prove today I suppose but he looked really bad in the position drills. Bad footwork and worse ball skills. Something had him rattled today and he couldn't catch a cold. That's why he plays corner I guess.

[Monk4thaHALL]

[Mathieu] drills.

Ok I watched the drills. He's natural. The first thing that pops was his hands. I'm not drooling over his hips, the feet look solid though but the hands seemed plus. He looked like a natural catcher, looked like a natural football player. Eh, It was good, I can't lie. I can see your 3rd round based on football skills. 2nd, I still feel is high. 3rd ... I mean I want an offensive player. It's tough.

Though the thing that I'm chewing on now, is correlation with BW Webb, who I already have in that similar range, same area: 3rd to 4th. With Webb I see a Nickel CB, real quick Slot CB, ready to mix it up. And Webb actually measured out on the static explosive drills in Vert & Broad and reaffirmed the short area quickness in 3-Cone & Shuttle. That's different from TM who didn't necessarily show on the static explosion drills.

You Know? - If people stage rush TM, good, because BW put on a display too.

[MartinC]

Ok I watched the drills. He's natural. The first thing that pops was his hands. I'm not drooling over his hips, the feet look solid though but the hands seemed plus. He looked like a natural catcher, looked like a natural football player. Eh, It was good, I can't lie. I can see your 3rd round based on football skills. 2nd, I still feel is high. 3rd ...

I saw his drills as well and I agree with your breakdown. He looks like a football player and is very natural catching and ran well. I did not think he changed direction quite as naturally - like you I thought he was a little stiff in his hips.

Heres my thing though - whats his position? Given his size I think its tough to see him as an outside corner and with his change of direction I think he will struggle in man coverage against the good slot receivers in the NFL. I think if a DC can scheme to give him some off man and zone coverages inside he will find himself around the ball and make some plays. He will also be a good teams guy as well. I think if he keeps his head screwed on he can be a productive role player in the NFL and maybe he finds a home and role in which with time he can play a significant role in a defense.

3rd round though to me is high for him even before you factor in the off field red flags. I can see someone rolling the dice maybe in the 4th but I would feel much more comfortable using a 5th round pick if its the Redskins doing the picking (though I think he will probably be gone by then).

[Monk4thaHALL]

Also want to say that Will Davis looked very smooth in his backpedal drills. His opening of the gate / hips was seamless. Did he struggle a bit on the 1-on-1 drills at the senior Bowl? - A couple times. But then game time, he makes plays - had a PD and an INT.

So he looks long, looked smooth with his hips and looked coordinated and what's more, people are starting to let him slide on the board a little and that only gives better value.

---------- Post added February-26th-2013 at 05:49 PM ----------

... 3rd round though to me is high for him even before you factor in the off field red flags. I can see someone rolling the dice maybe in the 4th but I would feel much more comfortable using a 5th round pick if its the Redskins doing the picking (though I think he will probably be gone by then).

Just focusing on the part of your post that deals with value and where to draft him. That's kind-of how I feel from a the perspective of when you are on the clock and go with that final gut check, I tend to already know who I'm going to select, I always did a final once-over of all the guys and sometimes changed things significantly because someone fell that I wasn't excepting to be there.

But I have guys that I've studied for a long time, going back to last Spring in the '12 Version of the Comprehensive and I stick close to the guys that I've looked at for a long time.

Essentially I keep finding other guys that I like, in those ranges. Or ways to get value later. You know, the guys that I've done more work on, to which I'd be inclined to select instead of TM.

Therefore he kind-of slides down a bit on my meter. But I wouldn't be surprised if someone did take while I passed. In terms of his skill, just eyeballing it and comparing him to the other 3rd to 4th round DBs, he belongs on the same field, probably better - more natural than that range. So ...

I hate it when I have to alter my lens because Steve brings up good stuff.

[Alcoholic Zebra]

Anyone have an opinion on Earl Wolff? I checked his game vs Clemson and I did not really see those elite measureables on the field. He seemed fairly hesitant when going downhill at a running back. He had some good plays in coverage, and then he'd have a poor one. If you go to 4:50 you'll see him make a great play in coverage, but then he follows that up with a terrible one right afterwards.



For most of the Clemson game it felt like Wolff wasn't using his elite athleticism. After a little more searching I saw a highlight reel that actually showcases what the numbers at the combine say.

[Samuels]

I've been about the biggest Tyrann fan on this board. He is by far my favorite player to watch play in this draft. His best position is probably slot corner but the kid is very versatile and should be used all over. Miles lined him up inside,outside, nickel LB, Safety and sent him on blitzes from everywhere. He is a weapon he creates turnovers like a madman. He is a hellva blitzer and honestly in a defense like Pittsburgh or even NYJ where they will play to his strenghts he will be dynamite. And for as small as he is he will pop you.

But people seem to forget he is a great special teamer. Flatout a dynamic elusive return man that has the ability to take it to the house everytime. He also is a nasty as a gunner covering kicks.

I'm old school i'm not a workout type of guy but everytime i've watched Tyrann even his freshman year he made plays. And take into account his last season was as a 19 year old sophmore that coulda won the heisman says it all. A 19 year old kid that is just a slot corner/ kick returner almost won the heisman and had 1 of the best statisical seasons in history for a Db.

I love watching his highlight videos out of all of his highlight videos I think this one portrays what you get with him. Look at his ability on special teams he is a impact player the last play on this video at 3:25 that punt returner is flatout one of the most ridiculus i've seen and he don't even score.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKCBCUS73Z8

[stevemcqueen1]

Ok I watched the drills. He's natural. The first thing that pops was his hands. I'm not drooling over his hips, the feet look solid though but the hands seemed plus. He looked like a natural catcher, looked like a natural football player. Eh, It was good, I can't lie. I can see your 3rd round based on football skills. 2nd, I still feel is high. 3rd ... I mean I want an offensive player. It's tough.

Though the thing that I'm chewing on now, is correlation with BW Webb, who I already have in that similar range, same area: 3rd to 4th. With Webb I see a Nickel CB, real quick Slot CB, ready to mix it up. And Webb actually measured out on the static explosive drills in Vert & Broad and reaffirmed the short area quickness in 3-Cone & Shuttle. That's different from TM who didn't necessarily show on the static explosion drills.

You Know? - If people stage rush TM, good, because BW put on a display too.

I doubt I'd take him in the second. I wouldn't take him over some of these top notch WRs or a good OT or DL. I think he could be the BPA in the third though.

I think you could take Amerson in the second and Honey Badger in the third and add a haul of undervalued playmaking talent to the secondary.

[COOLeyCatchTds]

Very informative thread. I've only been able to watch a little of the combine but Ive recorded it. Looking at just the numbers though, based on the teams needs, Im excited about the depth of defensive back talent. We should potentially be able to grab two instant starters in the second and third rounds.

What would be a RT that we could potentially grab with the 51st pick?

If there is a stud RT available you almost have to take him, right? If not, Im really anxious to see what DB falls in our lap.

[jtyler42]

I honestly would take Ammerson in the 2nd and Mattheau in the 3rd. Hall, Wilson, Crawford, Ammerson, and Mattheau would give us 5 solid CB'S...It would also give us two excellent special teams players in Crawford, and Mattheau...we could then sign Corey Lynch to solidify the FS position...

[Dukes and Skins]

Very informative thread. I've only been able to watch a little of the combine but Ive recorded it. Looking at just the numbers though, based on the teams needs, Im excited about the depth of defensive back talent. We should potentially be able to grab two instant starters in the second and third rounds.

What would be a RT that we could potentially grab with the 51st pick?

If there is a stud RT available you almost have to take him, right? If not, Im really anxious to see what DB falls in our lap.

1) Highly doubt a RT is taken before the 4th round

2) Still dont think Shanahan would take one if he was sitting there

[stevemcqueen1]

Also want to say that Will Davis looked very smooth in his backpedal drills. His opening of the gate / hips was seamless. Did he struggle a bit on the 1-on-1 drills at the senior Bowl? - A couple times. But then game time, he makes plays - had a PD and an INT.

So he looks long, looked smooth with his hips and looked coordinated and what's more, people are starting to let him slide on the board a little and that only gives better value.

---------- Post added February-26th-2013 at 05:49 PM ----------



Just focusing on the part of your post that deals with value and where to draft him. That's kind-of how I feel from a the perspective of when you are on the clock and go with that final gut check, I tend to already know who I'm going to select, I always did a final once-over of all the guys and sometimes changed things significantly because someone fell that I wasn't excepting to be there.

But I have guys that I've studied for a long time, going back to last Spring in the '12 Version of the Comprehensive and I stick close to the guys that I've looked at for a long time.

Essentially I keep finding other guys that I like, in those ranges. Or ways to get value later. You know, the guys that I've done more work on, to which I'd be inclined to select instead of TM.

Therefore he kind-of slides down a bit on my meter. But I wouldn't be surprised if someone did take while I passed. In terms of his skill, just eyeballing it and comparing him to the other 3rd to 4th round DBs, he belongs on the same field, probably better - more natural than that range. So ...

I hate it when I have to alter my lens because Steve brings up good stuff.

There is something about him that gets the blood coursing. Like watching RGIII at Baylor. He's a genius playmaker.

I honestly thought he would run a crappy time. Then he ran that good 40 and looked really good in shorts and I was kind of shocked. It was a sort of, "yeah, he's still good" moment.

The things that really jump out at me about him are his poise and utter fearlessness. He'll always be one of the smallest guys on the field but he has a ton of heart and confidence, plays with that kind of passion the great ones typically do. Like ST21. Just kind of feels like football success is the most natural thing for him.

---------- Post added February-26th-2013 at 08:07 PM ----------

I honestly would take Ammerson in the 2nd and Mattheau in the 3rd. Hall, Wilson, Crawford, Ammerson, and Mattheau would give us 5 solid CB'S...It would also give us two excellent special teams players in Crawford, and Mattheau...we could then sign Corey Lynch to solidify the FS position...

I would be down for that. I think you'd also have a lot of options at S in a CB group like that. S is kind of evolving as a position too.

I would love to get Montee Ball in the fourth or fifth round of a draft like that. I think we would have a ton of playmakers at the offensive and defensive skill positions after a class like that.

[DogofWar1]

Very informative thread. I've only been able to watch a little of the combine but Ive recorded it. Looking at just the numbers though, based on the teams needs, Im excited about the depth of defensive back talent. We should potentially be able to grab two instant starters in the second and third rounds.

What would be a RT that we could potentially grab with the 51st pick?

If there is a stud RT available you almost have to take him, right? If not, Im really anxious to see what DB falls in our lap.

51 is a bit of a weird place for RTs IMO.

So you've got your 1st rounders, Joeckel, Fisher, and Johnson. Beyond that is Fluker, who is WAAAAAAAAYYYY too big to be in the ZBS. For a while I thought Menelik Watson might be good, but then he went and posted crappy 3-cone and 20 yard shuffle times.

Then you've got some guys who were tackles in college, but project more like OGs in the NFL, and weren't really bona-fide 2nd rounders anyway, guys like Kyle Long and Dallas Thomas. Kyle Long is probably the one guy I'd feel ok about taking at 51 besides the top 3, though I pretty much guarantee he won't be BPA with all the DB and WR talent lying around this year.

Beyond that in rounds 3, 4, and 5 there are some good names though, and if we go after someone, we might strike then. Guys like Pugh, Bakhtiari, Quessenberry, Nixon, Armstead, and Hawkinson are all guys I could see us taking at one point or another.

It's worth noting that Armstead probably goes before we pick in the 3rd thanks to his absurd combine, but in terms of skill he needs a year at least.

Two guys I previously liked, Oboushi and Wagner, had pretty underwhelming combines. Aboushi just crapped the bed hard at the combine, no two ways about it. Wagner was just below average too. Previously I thought Aboushi might be a 2nd rounder, and Wagner a 3rd or 4th, but both underwhelmed enough to drop them.

So yeah, DB or WR in the 2nd is probably best, and probably even in the 3rd. Start looking at OT again in the 4th, see who's left.

[stevemcqueen1]

I've been about the biggest Tyrann fan on this board. He is by far my favorite player to watch play in this draft. His best position is probably slot corner but the kid is very versatile and should be used all over. Miles lined him up inside,outside, nickel LB, Safety and sent him on blitzes from everywhere. He is a weapon he creates turnovers like a madman. He is a hellva blitzer and honestly in a defense like Pittsburgh or even NYJ where they will play to his strenghts he will be dynamite. And for as small as he is he will pop you.

But people seem to forget he is a great special teamer. Flatout a dynamic elusive return man that has the ability to take it to the house everytime. He also is a nasty as a gunner covering kicks.

I'm old school i'm not a workout type of guy but everytime i've watched Tyrann even his freshman year he made plays. And take into account his last season was as a 19 year old sophmore that coulda won the heisman says it all. A 19 year old kid that is just a slot corner/ kick returner almost won the heisman and had 1 of the best statisical seasons in history for a Db.

I love watching his highlight videos out of all of his highlight videos I think this one portrays what you get with him. Look at his ability on special teams he is a impact player the last play on this video at 3:25 that punt returner is flatout one of the most ridiculus i've seen and he don't even score.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKCBCUS73Z8

Look how quick his feet are. He's so coordinated and explosive, grabs the ball on the bounce and off of tips and is at full speed a moment later. He's got a great feel for the ball. Yeah he is a lot of fun to watch.

What's interesting about that Heisman class was how incredible a year it was and he put his name right in the middle of it. Those were the top three picks in the draft that year plus the most productive RB in FBS history.

---------- Post added February-26th-2013 at 08:18 PM ----------

Been trying to get people to understand this for a while now

He's the most physically imposing safety in the class. The guy is an absolute tank. I bet nobody laughed at him when he fell.