2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[NLC1054]

NLC, I have to disagree. There were ways we could have gotten Watt and built depth had we exploited them.

Let's say we take Watt at 10. With #41 we took Jenkins. What we could have opted to do is to trade down 5-10 spots (to Oakland at #48 or thereabouts), picking up a 3rd rounder. In round 2, we take Justin Houston, filling our pass-rusher from the other side of Rak. In round 3 we can still draft Hankerson, or someone like Chris Comte. We don't have a 4th in this scenario, but Helu might be a writeoff at this point. Sure it's a lot of hindsight involved. But it's very easy to end up with a draft where we don't trade down, take the best player on the board, yet are still able to acquire young depth. And the thing is - that was the great front offices do - they don't play it safe (actually the great FOs don't make mistakes like McNabb and Brown in the first place), they're able to find the studs and maximize the draft in terms of value.

You're completely ignoring what I'm saying to make a point that makes no sense. It's not a little bit of hindsight---it's completely and utter hindsight. There is absolutely no guarantee that we'd be able to move down in the second round. None. Zero.

Here's what we do know, that is not hindsight----aside from some very well placed last minute smoke, the Redskins had no intentions of drafting Blaine Gabbert. The Redskins goal in the draft was to draft an outside linebacker in the first round. We also know that we had poor depth, with not a lot of draft picks to work with.

(And can I just say, the irony of complaining about a front office "playing it safe" in the same sentence as complaining about a team trading for a offensive lineman coming off major hip surgery and a 35-year old quarterback with known attitude problems has not been lost on me.)

Those are the things we KNOW.

Now, imagine you are in that situation. You need draft picks, you've got poor depth. One of the quarterbacks who you maybe would've taken a chance on is off the board (Locker, and LL insists he wasn't ever really in play), and the other one your OC likes (Dalton) has no value at number 10.

Now imagine if you will, if you had a lot of holes to fill, and a position you were looking for, and this quarterback you don't want at number 10. And all the sudden, the Jaguars call up with a trade offer.

Do you...

1.) Realize that the two guys you've been really targeting in the draft (Robert Quinn and Ryan Kerrigan) have a real shot at being there at 16, and that the extra draft picks you gain will be crucial in helping to rebuild your franchise?

---OR---

2.) Ignore all those gaping holes, take a player at a position you weren't really looking to address in the first round, and then pray you got lucky enough that another team would call you up and want to trade up in the second round to get someone else.

Which one seems like the more logical choice? Please answer the question honestly.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

You take the best player. Watt was the best player on the board, probably by far.

Even if we would be missing depth in the short term, the difference in value of Watt versus Kerrigan, not even taking into account their positional value (for the modern 3-4 a disruptive DE is much more important than a second rush OLB) is so great that it trumps Kerrigan + a bunch of players who are, to this point, just guys. And for the most part, that's all they'll ever be. Maybe Hankerson improves his hands and becomes the next Roddy White. Okay, cool, we might have to bring in UDFAs to fill the holes that our late round picks left. Sure we'd have one less 3rd round prospect, and several less middling prospects. And it's nice that Shanahan's picks in rounds 4-7 haven't been total washouts. But when there's a blue chip talent on the board, which Watt is, and Kerrigan, for how good he is, is not, you take the blue-chip talent.

I'd take a Watt/Hankerson draft or a Watt/Justin Houston draft with no 3rd and 4th rounder, and about half the number of Gomes-level prospects, than the draft we did have.

[skinfan2k]

In essence we were behind the 8 ball once we gave up 4 picks for both mcnabb and brown. keep those picks and start JC

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

In essence we were behind the 8 ball once we gave up 4 picks for both mcnabb and brown. keep those picks and start Grossman

ftfy

Of all the starting QBs Shanny had on his roster, RGIII >>>>> Grossman > McNabb > Campbell.

[CoolHandLuke]

Is there anyway TJ McDonald ends up being there in the 2nd? I really want us to pick up a ballhawk S that will deliver kill shots b/c of personal motivation and not a money pool. I want either TJ McDonald, Eric Reid, or Kenny Vaccaro, and Ray Ray as a UDFA. With Chase & Bernstein back next season our DBs will be scary!

[NLC1054]

You take the best player. Watt was the best player on the board, probably by far.

Even if we would be missing depth in the short term, the difference in value of Watt versus Kerrigan, not even taking into account their positional value (for the modern 3-4 a disruptive DE is much more important than a second rush OLB) is so great that it trumps Kerrigan + a bunch of players who are, to this point, just guys. And for the most part, that's all they'll ever be. Maybe Hankerson improves his hands and becomes the next Roddy White. Okay, cool, we might have to bring in UDFAs to fill the holes that our late round picks left. Sure we'd have one less 3rd round prospect, and several less middling prospects. And it's nice that Shanahan's picks in rounds 4-7 haven't been total washouts. But when there's a blue chip talent on the board, which Watt is, and Kerrigan, for how good he is, is not, you take the blue-chip talent.

I'd take a Watt/Hankerson draft or a Watt/Justin Houston draft with no 3rd and 4th rounder, and about half the number of Gomes-level prospects, than the draft we did have.

Well thanks for illustrating perfectly for me why football fans would make crappy general managers.

[BobGriffin]

LOL at guys thinking that Watt was so much superior to Ryan Kerrigan as a prospect. Watt may have been graded slightly better but he was by no means considered a blue chip can't miss prospect.

[STBonecrusher21]

Would love to get a guy like Ryan Swope to put in the slot. Sure handed and tough to cover.

[NLC1054]

LOL at guys thinking that Watt was so much superior to Ryan Kerrigan as a prospect. Watt may have been graded slightly better but he was by no means considered a blue chip can't miss prospect.

Nope, not at all. As I recall, even though he was a first round talent, there seemed to be a lot of uncertainty where he'd end up.

Hindsight is funny like that.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Well thanks for illustrating perfectly for me why football fans would make crappy general managers.

I'm not stating that depth isn't important. But what is more important is impact players. If prioritizing depth over impact is your focus, you don't trade 2 first rounders for Robert Griffin, you trade down and take Brandon Weeden, or don't take a first round QB at all and take Russel Wilson. I'm not saying that we didn't need more young talent, but even with everyone healthy, we only have a few true impact players on both sides of the ball. If you're good at drafting, you can develop depth down the road. But right now, we just have guys that weren't truly dominant in college, or were general overachievers. It got us a lot of guys who are capable of sticking in the NFL, but not a lot of guys who are capable of being quality starters.

LOL at guys thinking that Watt was so much superior to Ryan Kerrigan as a prospect. Watt may have been graded slightly better but he was by no means considered a blue chip can't miss prospect.

Watt was highly productive at Wisconsin and absolutely wrecked the combine. Kerrigan was projected lower than we took him, has average to above average physical attributes, and was more of an overachiever at Purdue. Watt was getting consistently mocked in the top 10-15 by draft day, Kerrigan was generally mocked in the 19-25 ranges. Now that's not really the best indicator, but it seems pretty clear that Watt had the potential to be a dominant player, while Kerrigan was drafted to be merely "productive".

It's the same thinking that leads you to take Jarvis Jenkins over Stephen Paea - sometimes you need to swing for physical upside because you're more likely to get a stud player.

[NLC1054]

It got us a lot of guys who are capable of sticking in the NFL, but not a lot of guys who are capable of being quality starters.

And if our depth was garbage, then we'd have one "stud" and the rest of our team would be suffering. "Yay, we've got J.J Watt! Unfortunately we've got no outside linebacker and our secondary is garbage and we have no depth in our receiving core or in our backfield..but at least we've got J.J Watt!"

Like I said; short-sighted thinking . And it's almost all based on the fact that that Watt's having a terrific season; if Watt's production was in line with his production as a rookie (and was anyone complaining about how much we need Watt last year?) then we wouldn't care.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

And if our depth was garbage, then we'd have one "stud" and the rest of our team would be suffering. "Yay, we've got J.J Watt! Unfortunately we've got no outside linebacker and our secondary is garbage and we have no depth in our receiving core or in our backfield..but at least we've got J.J Watt!"

"Yay, we have J.J Watt, Justin Houston/Sam Acho/Stephen Paea/Torrey Smith, and we used our lower round picks to get a little extra depth, though not as much as we could have gotten otherwise!"

And our secondary still sucks, Gomes didn't fix that lol.

Realistically, how much of our "depth" will even be on the roster next year? I don't think any of our 7th rounders are going to survive. One of Royster/Helu might be gone, possibly both if Helu doesn't get healthy. Paul is pretty much a special teamer. Robinson looks like a #5 WR at best.

Like I said; short-sighted thinking . And it's almost all based on the fact that that Watt's having a terrific season; if Watt's production was in line with his production as a rookie (and was anyone complaining about how much we need Watt last year?) then we wouldn't care.

I dunno about you but I knew at about this point last year that Watt was the better and more impactful player. I thought also however, that we had drafted quality starters in Jenkins and Hankerson and that Kerrigan was nearly as good (instead, Jenkins seems to be just a run-stuffer, Hankerson seems like Gardner 2.0, and Kerrigan seems to be a bit TOO dependent on Rak creating mismatches on the other side)

The short-sighted thinking is taking depth that might not make it to year 3 over a guy who might be here for a decade at a consistent Pro Bowl/All-Pro level.

[MrJL]

Is there anyway TJ McDonald ends up being there in the 2nd? I really want us to pick up a ballhawk S that will deliver kill shots b/c of personal motivation and not a money pool. I want either TJ McDonald, Eric Reid, or Kenny Vaccaro, and Ray Ray as a UDFA. With Chase & Bernstein back next season our DBs will be scary!

I've said this several times but I've never gotten a solid answer. Doesn't it take significantly longer for all three knee ligaments to heal than just the ACL? Because Bernstine didn't just tear his ACL. He shredded his knee tearing all the ligaments

[ArmchairRedskin]

Kerrigan came out of the Combine with an 8.38 grade

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/...gan?id=2495190

Watt was given an 8.37 grade.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/...att?id=2495488


Watt would not have started right away as there were already starters in place at both ends.

Kerrigan had no real competition at LOLB

[darrelgreenie]

I wanted a disruptive DE before Watt ever played a snap.
I'm sure I can find the posts.