Here's where my situation lies when it comes to trading down (going back to a few pages ago)... We will most likely have an early second round pick and without a first rounder this year and horrid defense, we have to make due with what we have. I see some have posted the old "better to pick one round early than 1 pick late" stuff but here is my question.
We have so many needs and some can be filled in FA. But what happens if say we are drafting at 38 and we are targeting a guy like Elam for our scheme? Is it smart to just take him at 38 or trade back and hop he's there around 50? (I have him projected around 60-66 right now) Cus if we were to trade back, we may be able to grab Elam and maybe Kwame Geathers/ILB Bostic with our now (2) 3rd rounders
Chatter on Draftcountdown that Kyle could be a candidate to receive HC interviews this offseason. Just draftnik speculation, but interesting nonetheless.
Fine by me, let the Jets have him and lets bring Rex Ryan here for Defense and Tony Sparano for offense.
---------- Post added November-12th-2012 at 05:48 PM ----------
Also another safety prospect to keep an eye on is... And this is taken from Walter football...anyone want to give an opinion since you guys would know him better than myself..
Brandan Bishop, S, N.C. State
Height: 6-2. Weight: 205.
Projected 40 Time: 4.60.
Projected Round (2013): 3-5.
11/10/12: Bishop was one of the few defensive backs who played well for the Wolfpack against Tennessee to open the season. He had nine tackles and a forced fumble. Bishop added another five tackles, an interception and forced fumble against Connecticut. He's totaled 79 tackles, two forced fumbles, four passes broken up and an interception so far this year.
9/2/12: It is hard to get out of the shadow of teammate David Amerson, but Bishop has produced the past two years. The junior had an impressive season last year with 89 tackles, five interceptions and a forced fumble. He had four interceptions with 66 tackles as a sophomore.
Bishop has some natural ball skills with size and tackling ability. He is a sleeper prospect who could surprise and move up the rankings with a strong senior performance.
Just living the dream of a college kid wanting to be something
NFLDraftMonsters.com--- check it
I respect your opinions, although I often disagree. I don't think Dennard can't succeed. I just don't think it makes sense for this team. We have imho one of the most dynamic play making QBs in the league. Our offense, in its infancy(year 1), is top 6 & 10 in scoring and yards. We have young players that haven't reached their potential and an offense, specifically passing game that's only going to get better as the pieces gel and build continuity. I think Denard is an interesting project for a team that can more or less afford to gamble on him. Imo those teams are (a) have a more complete roster (b) have an established offense with pieces in place that are more veteran where installing novelty plays won't take away the development of anyone else because everyone already knows the offense.
Also, I think you overestimate the bump that Denard would provide on gadget plays. There are only so many times you can run a HB toss/pitch pass or a WR screen throwback in a season let alone a game. And if you really think about Denard's background takes away a key element of those plays...surprise. Every DC worth there salt is gonna know Denard can pass and would likely tell their players something like: "when that frikkin smurf is back there keep watch for the damn gadget crap, and Safeties keep yer tail back and look for that pass, i'll kill you if you get beat on pass, then i'll bench you"
My vote is we keep building the team, a complete team by drafting BPA.
---------- Post added November-12th-2012 at 08:26 PM ----------
---------- Post added November-12th-2012 at 08:35 PM ----------
2nd: BPA: CB, DB, DL, RT, S
3rd: BPA: minus round 2 selection (unless DL)
4th: BPA: minus rounds 2 & 3 selections + ILB, TE, RB + CB, DL, S (even if previously selected)
6th: Collin Klein (depending on the OC i.e. if we're still running a lot of zone-read stuff)
Beyond that, love Bishop. I don't think he'll be an elite safety or anything like that, but I think you could have him start at some point and he wouldn't hurt you, unlike the guys we have now. He's definitely a player who stood out while I was watching cut ups of Amerson.
I've had a number of posts that I've wanted to write recently, but I just haven't found the time to get on here or simply just wanted to avoid the shark tank in a way. So, I'll just have a disjointed post here touching on a number of things.
But then during the Arkansas game I came away with enough material to suffice a complete post, based upon just 3 of his plays in that game.
I believe he's a late 2nd rounder.
Whether he gets selected there is another thing. But it's been clear as day that the CBS value of 4th round to 5th round is just wildly conservative.
And it's clear to me that he's a Strong Safety. And once you actually put these guys in their proper column, you realize that he and Elam are very close, both near the top of that category.
I understand what you're saying about 3rd round because I feel a range of #60 to #75 is well appropriate. So could be end of 2nd or 3rd. By no means have I seen all the candidates yet, either, so there's still room for me.
To me there's not a huge drop off between what Swearinger does and what you could get from Elam.
There was a sequence during the South Carolina and Arkansas game a few days ago, on Saturday, where Swearinger was the focal point of three consecutive plays. After watching that, if your idea of him wasn't firmed up, then nothing will ever coalesce one's opinion of him.
It was the 3rd quarter, about 11 minutes and change left. SC was leading 24 to 10 - I think.
First play, 1st down - it's a run. Swearinger slides up from his safety position, he's close to in-the-box.
He avoids (sidesteps) a blocker and then has to take a sharp angle, a very fast readjustment to make the tackle.
He has to flatten out his angle at the last moment while reaching for the ball carrier and actually horse collars the guy. He made the tackle but was flagged for a personal foul - 15 yards.
It wasn't egregious but easily apparent as a penalty.
And I don't know exactly how to describe it in such terms that the ES massive could understand and relate to ... but it was an aggressive hustle play by Swearinger. It was a mistake, but a mistake made at full speed. So, it wasn't the kind of thing that makes one worrisome.
I really didn't have a change of countenance at all.
It was excusable in-so-much the way in which he gave his effort.
I try to make this clear distinction because people around here like to fly-bye with observations without total context, especially if it's a player who is earmarked as a draft selection and/or one who, in this case, has yielded a penalty(s).
In this case there's more than meets the eye.
So, he shakes that off play, 15 yards and a 1st down. The very next play, he's in on the action, again.
The very next play is a pass, short pass, shallow cross to the underneath flats and Swearinger was aligned to the playside, wideside of the field, I believe. He was lined up over the Slot, but I think he was Rover and played Curl to Flats.
Anyway, he was deeper in coverage and charges forward after reading the action. His reaction time is very quick. He goes from diagnosis to immediate action so quickly. That, in-of-itself, is impressive.
So he charges and explodes into the receiver. I actually thought he knocked him out. I physically jumped in my seat.
He jars the receiver off his feet, just blasted the receiver back. It actually was a good and clean hit.
It was however flagged as a personal foul penalty (15 yards). The refs said blow to the head.
Actually, upon slow-mo you could see that Swearinger lead with his shoulder and hit the WR/TE right in the middle of his chest. The hit was so forceful it just looked like a hit to the head, because his head snapped backward from the force.
Again, a distinction needs to be written here for the lazy who just see consecutive penalties called on the same guy in two consecutive plays. It was a heck of a hit.
So, he's demonstrably in disagreement with the officials. He actually does a prayer and points to the sky. Some player pleads for a half second explaining he hit the receiver with his shoulder and there was no wrong doing. After the penalty call, he points again to the sky a few times with a reassuring finger almost acknowledging his own solemnity. It was a kind-of his very own John Proctor moment, in which he refused to sign his name ...
Next Play: He jumps a route and intercepts the ball, runs it back for a Pick Six. Poetic justice.
Ha, it was a great play.
... Only problem, after the Touchdown, he actually tosses the ball into the stands. ... I mean, I just laughed a comfortable bellow of reassurance. He was just so enigmatic in those moments - I actually came away more compelled and intrigued than ever.
I realized he played with such passion. Throwing the ball into the stands was obviously affront to the penalty call by the refs, but certainly a coaching moment.
The TD still counted, but there was a penalty assessed on the kickoff.
It didn't get to me at all. You have to see between the lines here.
The game was controlled by SC, Arkansas is just a shell of it's former self of last year. So contextually the penalties had really no affect on the outcome of the game.
Three plays in a row, all three plays made by Swearinger in one way or another, 3 penalties in row, all capped off with a defensive TD. It was just an incredible sequence of events.
To me, that was perhaps the best vignette I could imagine for.
I came away throughly impressed, just from the standpoint of what you used to feel when playing the game yourself. The emotion, the effort and sweat and pain, the wild swings where you mess up and try to redeem yourself and then finally the resurrection of your actions by producing a big play.
Oh, I did a search after the fact, for the video, after writing up my play by play. Here it is:
Before the weekend I had a few convos with folks about which game I thought would prove to have upsets. I honestly did believe that Texas A&M would compete and possibly upset Bama. I just ended up doing yardwork instead of posting here on ES. Ha, need to find time for legend growing too, haha.
Just briefly want to say that Manziel has played lights out this year and deserves the heisman talk. Anybody who has seen him realizes just how awesome what he's doing. I also think that Kevin Sumlin is another underrated coach. I like him a bunch.
Brief point. All I know is that TY Hilton is making meaningful catches in the NFL. He's making catches for touchdowns and catches leading to other's TDs or scores. He's a rookie. He's a starter. As a 3rd rounder, selected #92, He's providing good hands, good routes and is stretching the field, taking off the top, whilst running slipstream underneath as well, all for his rookie QB.
I like that Grigson went all out to provide Luck with great targets. Already having Wayne in house was huge, leading target and receiver. But that draft day of getting Fleener and Allen, I thought the Allen move was awesome, plus Hilton (4th leading receiver) combined with the pick-up of Avery, just has really set a nice cushion there.
Together, Points are being put on the board. Catches made, points on board. Those catches lead to scores which are affecting the outcome of games.
That's tangible and real, at least to me.
Games are being won with that combo, in part. There's no reason why that combo couldn't be Griff to Hilton, instead of Luck to Hilton.
Hilton was available at #71. And some called for it, I know I did, because in real time there was a run on the skills players at the end of the 2nd into the 3rd, last year.
It was like an alarm bell going off to me when I saw Casey Hayward and Ronnie Hillman get snatched up, but when Buffalo jumped up to get TJ Graham, a guy widely considered to go much later, 4th at the earliest (and I posted that myself at one point - most everyone else had him in the 6th) it was full-on grab the best skills guy (offense or defense) because the market was in full blown closeout mode.
I knew Hilton and Pierce were not long for the day.
So I mean to give it proper reply shortly. But I wanted to briefly say that I saw it and have thought about it.
I think I know why you wanted another voice in there and 1). maybe it's because you've seen that Bama has been running Zone blocking and they've been rolling out stretch a good bit.
2). I also remember 'your boy' from last year, Osemele. I liked him too, but wavered as the year progressed with him. I found him not so appealing to the shanahan / Gibbs / Denver / Houston style of zone stretch. I think I figured he was at the fringe of the Zone scale.
But since just about everyone uses zone blocking at one time or another, there are definitely guys who are big (large mass, weight) but also can be athletic enough for predominantly inside zone blocking.
Maybe you wanted to compare those two, especially since Ose' is in B-More running their Zone. Just one quick hit - Fluker is not as athletic or agile as Osemele, so that's the first distinction I can make. And Fluker just looks so lumbering in the open field.
3). But I'm sure that you've noticed that the Skins this year, with that Pistol form have been altering their run game to a much more vertical form rather than sideline to sideline stretch. I mean it's been a good deviation to Inside Zone and Veer and Veer Option - with a good bit of uncovered releasing to Level 2, getting vertical.
There's also that power toss sweep and the quick pitch-back turned Dive. That was used a ton vs Cincy. Downright, the Tackle would block down, while the guards would release in space, pull out and lead up as Morris either strung it outside to C-Gap on a sweep or sometimes lead up vertical on a Dive, like B-Gap.
So I can see why you thought about a player like him, who might be asked at times just to generate push and drive block or be allowed to use angle to his advantage in lieu of his physical agility shortcomings.
Just wanted to briefly also add this name here Dukes & S,
I stayed up late to watch the Nevada and Fresno St game. And let me tell you, for a guy who's really undersized and really off the radar, considered a late round selection - he is so sudden with his movements, makes "liquid" movements.
Rouse ran for 261 on the night. A cold night.
I mean when I saw him leap over the pile for a TD, I think I uttered the words "Flubber." And I think I meant - a substance that changes it's direction and flow in an "aquatic," liquid like way, but sudden and explosive.
I guess I also envisioned one of those super bouncy balls, made of rubber, that you can bounce on the ground and have it soar thirty feet in the air.
I have an acquaintance of mine who attended the same high school as Rouse, in Cali. He described him as resembling (edit) actually it was Darren Sproles. That comparison based on size and stature. There is a difference when it comes to strength of competition, though.
However, Rouse has similar stats in terms of production, rushing numbers and pass catches. He's got that dual threat ability.
I can see it in terms of their respective diminutive stature, you can see the similarity.
Nonetheless, name to think of when talking about a change of pace guy:
Someone with a great 1st gear, 0 to 60 quickly, no blazing speed however, not a top gear, but late round candidate too, someone with some very sudden cuts and won't shy from contact either ... Rouse.
---------- Post added November-13th-2012 at 03:46 AM ----------
nevada 2012, recap:
vs oregon, 2012:
vs nevada 2011:
quick highlight vs boise st, 2011:
there's more out there.
Plus one could describe how the scheme at Fresno State has changed over the last few years. He's had experience in both down hill, more straight dive, Man blocking scheme ... and now currently running a Spread with more Zone and stretch from the shotgun mess point.
---------- Post added November-13th-2012 at 04:02 AM ----------
rouse cut-ups 2011:
Last edited by Monk4thaHALL; November-13th-2012 at 06:47 AM.
We need to do our homework and possibly claim Ta'amu. Got released by the Steelers and would be a nice project.
I've always liked Ta'amu as a player, in fact I was mad when we traded our pick to the Steeler's and they picked him.
IIRC Ta'amu was placed on the injured reserve awhile back and was released because of a DUI.
Maybe this is a case of the Steeler's maintaining the Rooney image of player decency.
Or maybe its the case of a smart organization cutting its loses with a troubled, injured player?
Due diligence is required, at least kick the tires.
It would be nice to get a quality player from a pick we traded away.
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