2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[stevemcqueen1]

Theres always that one player who goes above and beyond what everyone thinks will happen. Last year it was RG3, the year before Cam Newton. This year my guy is another QB and thats Geno Smith from WVU. I've consistently had him as my #2 QB right now behind Tyler Wilson and just a little ahead of Logan Thomas(for the time being). Geno is everything you could want in a WCO type QB with his timing and accuracy.

Again we have no need for QB, but this is one of those guys who I can see running away with the Heisman this year especially if WVU plays to its potential this year and he puts up the stats that he can

Smith was amazing. His talent absolutely pops. I could definitely see him having an RGIII like year. BUT, I don't think he's got the same playmaking gene as RGIII. Doesn't have RGIII's spontaneous genius or ability to sift through the chaos and turn a negative into a dramatic positive. He also doesn't look as powerful nor as fast as RGIII and he's not as accurate IMO.

I doubt we see an RGIII caliber talent for a long time though. Smith looks a tad lanky, but I do see NFL size, pretty good arm strength, a nice, compact release, and pretty electric running ability. He looks like a first round talent and I would consider taking him early because of his physical attributes and his high comfort level throwing the ball.

---------- Post added September-2nd-2012 at 11:16 PM ----------

Dukes, I think Smith is the favorite for the Heisman right now, but I think Logan Thomas will be ranked ahead him as an NFL prospect as we approach the draft. Logan's physical attributes are going to really impress NFL teams in the same way Cam's did. He's a towering presence.

Although Logan's going to have to have a good season and make strides as a passer of course. That's definitely not a lock though. Logan can stand back in the pocket with the fearlessness and comfort of a giant, athletic QB. He knows he's hard to tackle and that he can get yards on his own and that he can get away with holding the ball longer. But teams want a guy who can pass in rhythm with accuracy and good decision making just as much as they want a playmaker. Logan is going to have to show off some passing this year if he's going to come out early and be a high draft pick.

---------- Post added September-2nd-2012 at 11:37 PM ----------

I'd actually like to see us spend our 2nd on a QB......

Denard Robinson

IMO Denard is a special player and our best opportunity to get a game changing talent that can elevate the level of our whole offense. Just like Steve mentioned about the two elite talents making a OL dominant, we need another game breaker next with RGIII. After this year, I can see things shaking out where Hank, Garçon, Fred and one of our young RBs all show as very good players, but none create a huge mismatch. RGIII's unique talents will elevate the entire unit and adding another matchup nightmare on the field at the same time, especially one with that kind of speed, running ability, and the option to throw would be unstoppable.

I basically think Robinson could be like Sproles meets Tebow. I talked about a Paul Hornung type player in last years thread. Robinson can be moved all over offensive formations as a slot WR and 3rd down RB. At 5'11", 200 lbs, he has the size to play both. Obviously there's the throwing element (3rd QB behind Griff and Cousins) and he might even be able to return kicks and punts. I think that he and RGIII can be on the field together for more than 60% of plays and having both can open up plays for the other skill players. He would also open up 2-3 roster spots as a QB/RB/WR/KR.

While I do think that we will need to keep our eyes open for OL, CB, and S, I think a unit elevating player is need on each side of the ball. Picking in the late 2nd (I see the Skins making the playoffs), Denard presents the best chance to land that guy. He'll only be on the board because most organizations aren't creative and brave enough to figure out how to use him. But with Tebow, Newton, hopefully RGIII, Sproles, Jahvid Best, Welker, etc. showing the impact of dynamic slot WRs, scat backs, and dual threat players, Denard should be our guy.

There is no way to defend RGIII and DR in the 2minute drill lined up in shotgun running that spread option. Our offense would be so explosive that it'd be unfair.

On another note, Logan Thomas goes #1.

I like Denard too and would be very interested in drafting him. I love his running style, elite shiftiness and speed but also elite patience and vision and ability to pick his way up field for yards.

But I do have a slight trepidation with drafting him that needs to be addressed through the predraft process. We need to see what he looks like catching the ball and he should show some nascent route running ability/show an ability to learn the WR position for the NFL level.

I absolutely doubt this will be the case, but if Denard shows just awful hands or instincts for the WR position then it makes him almost undraftable IMO. We'd need him to be able to line up at WR to get him on the field enough to properly use him because I don't think he has the build of a workhorse RB.

I think Sproles is a good comparison for him. I think Percy Harvin is a good one too. Similar speed to Percy and he could be used in a similar WR/HB role.

I agree with your point that the offense could really use a gamebreaking talent at the skill positions. RGIII is one, but he's a QB and we need him staying back and throwing the ball.

We need Denard's speed. Our entire team lacks speed outside of the LT, LB, and QB positions IMO. We're a power team built to play outdoors on natural grass in weather, which is appropriate. But you also need to have speed to match up with some of the great teams of the NFL and our offensive skill positions are pretty slow.

It doesn't have to be Denard though. But I think you're right that Denard will probably be one of the biggest playmakers left available in the mid second or later, mostly because of the difficulty in projecting him to a new position. I think he'll be one of the fastest players in the draft, probably the fastest decent offensive player in the second round.

[wildbill1952]

Let's wait another 20 years to get OL. I mean, it's what most Skins fans and Skins management have done for years. And look how successfu it's been.

[NLC1054]

Let's wait another 20 years to get OL. I mean, it's what most Skins fans and Skins management have done for years. And look how successfu it's been.

I'm sorry, I can't hear your complaining over all these offensive linemen we drafted...

[Poman]

Let's wait another 20 years to get OL. I mean, it's what most Skins fans and Skins management have done for years. And look how successfu it's been.

How have "most Skins fans" done that for years? I didnt realize we had a say so....

[darrelgreenie]

I think its rare to be able to draft a player that you can expect to come in and be a playmaker right away outside the first round.
Outside of the 1st round by and large I think playmaking emerge rather then our drafted.
There is ample unknown potential within the current passing game. (Morgan, Hankerson, Robinson, Briscoe)
And until we know something about those players ability within the offense I would not use the precious early round draft picks for skill position players.
Drafting a Denard Robinson to me would border on amassing talent as opposed to building a team.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

I'm sorry, I can't hear your complaining over all these offensive linemen we drafted...

If they weren't drafted in the first round, they don't count. Never mind one of the worst OLs in football has 3 first rounders starting, and one of the best OLs in football has like, none?

But anyway, about Denard Robinson - I'd love to have him, honestly. We've been looking for a *true* gamebreaker for so long, and RGIII would certainly appreciate one. The problem is, can we go without investing more draft picks in other areas? I think Robinson is a bit of a luxury pick, given that he'll be playing positions we have quite a bit of depth at, and he's not a lock to be BPA either. I think it depends on whether our problem areas perform above expectations.

I'd definitely consider him with our 2nd, and if he's there at our 3rd, I take him and don't look back.

[stevemcqueen1]

I think its rare to be able to draft a player that you can expect to come in and be a playmaker right away outside the first round.
Outside of the 1st round by and large I think playmaking emerge rather then our drafted.
There is ample unknown potential within the current passing game. (Morgan, Hankerson, Robinson, Briscoe)
And until we know something about those players ability within the offense I would not use the precious early round draft picks for skill position players.
Drafting a Denard Robinson to me would border on amassing talent as opposed to building a team.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by emerge. Do you mean they emerge in the sense that they are developmental talents that take a while to become contributors?

If so, I could see that being the case with a player like Denard. I assume he'll need some time to transition from QB to WR/RB.

I agree we've got a lot of unknown potential at WR. But outside of Aldrick Robinson, I don't think we have a lot of speed. Supposedly Denard is around 4.32 speed. I think he would bring a different set of attributes from any of the receivers we've already got offering a different level of potential. I also think Denard could be a dynamic weapon in the running game similar to Percy Harvin.

We're not that committed to any receiver on our roster outside Garcon. If a dynamic player at the position fell into our laps in the second, I wouldn't be opposed to drafting him to replace one of our current young receivers if he was better.

In general, I think it can be smart to draft good receiver prospects in the first half of the draft every year or every other year. That kind of talent cycling has helped teams like the Giants and Packers field really good groups of receivers.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Also, keep in mind, Robinson would also fill several roster spots - KR/PR, possibly the 3rd or 4th RB, and even maybe the 3rd QB.

Though, Garcon is pretty fast (between 4.47 and 4.4) and we don't know if Moss might have returned to form or not. So we're not that slow.

[NLC1054]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by emerge. Do you mean they emerge in the sense that they are developmental talents that take a while to become contributors?

If so, I could see that being the case with a player like Denard. I assume he'll need some time to transition from QB to WR/RB.

I agree we've got a lot of unknown potential at WR. But outside of Aldrick Robinson, I don't think we have a lot of speed. Supposedly Denard is around 4.32 speed.

Hank ran in the 4.43 range, didn't he? Pierre ran 4.48 and he's pretty good at getting behind a defense. Sometimes I think speed is the most overrated aspect of a skill position player. Larry Fitzgerald ran like a 4.63, and he's Larry Fitzgerald. Arian Foster runs like 4.67 but he runs away from defenders all the time. Getting open and beating a defense, I feel, has a lot more to do with technique than speed in the NFL. The only guy I see just flat out beat people with athleticism on a regular basis is Calvin Johnson, and that man is a freak of nature.

I think, if I had to gauge it right now, there's four positions will be looking at going into next year; right tackle (if a good one falls), tight end, safety and corner. Denard is going to be one of those guys like Armanti Edwards, and he's a bit of a luxury pick.

[darrelgreenie]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by emerge. Do you mean they emerge in the sense that they are developmental talents that take a while to become contributors?

I don't think that you can draft a skill position player (again outside of using a 1st round pick) that you can count on and expect them to be a year 1 playmaker.

I think that playmakers emerge or become.
I'm not sure who we would agree is playmaker....Johnny Knox? Darren Sproles?
I don't think the Bears/Chargers drafted them with the thought 'this guy is gonna be our playmaker'.
But they emerged as playmakers.

I think you draft the best players that fit what you do and hopefully a playmaker emerges.
But I don't think you can chase/draft it.

In general, I think it can be smart to draft good receiver prospects in the first half of the draft every year or every other year. That kind of talent cycling has helped teams like the Giants and Packers field really good groups of receivers.

I agree.
I think talent should be cycled at every position, even positions of strength.
But, its much easier to do with a team that's more or less complete.

[stevemcqueen1]

Hank ran in the 4.43 range, didn't he? Pierre ran 4.48 and he's pretty good at getting behind a defense. Sometimes I think speed is the most overrated aspect of a skill position player. Larry Fitzgerald ran like a 4.63, and he's Larry Fitzgerald. Arian Foster runs like 4.67 but he runs away from defenders all the time. Getting open and beating a defense, I feel, has a lot more to do with technique than speed in the NFL. The only guy I see just flat out beat people with athleticism on a regular basis is Calvin Johnson, and that man is a freak of nature.

I think, if I had to gauge it right now, there's four positions will be looking at going into next year; right tackle (if a good one falls), tight end, safety and corner. Denard is going to be one of those guys like Armanti Edwards, and he's a bit of a luxury pick.

Garcon is quick and coordinate and a good all around receiver but not really a true gamebreaker IMO. Hankerson may have run well too, but I wouldn't consider him a gamebreaker either. He's more of a possession style receiver who can run away from players in the open field.

There's a qualitative difference between a mid 4.4 speed guy and a low 4.3 speed one. To me, Aldrick Robinson is the only offensive skill position player with elite burst to match great top end speed. And unless Robinson has a really impressive year, he'll remain on our roster bubble,, without draft status to protect him.

I disagree about the importance of speed. I think it's one of the things that can separate players. Guys like Peterson, McCoy, and CJ2K and Trent Richardson wouldn't be the same without their speed. Steven Jackson and Michael Turner haven't been the same since they lost their speed. Great speed is one of the main things that allows a player to create for himself and generate positive plays against a set defense.

Foster and Fitzgerald are exceptions more than anything else. In Foster's case, he's an impressively quick back for his massive size and build that's been productive because of his rare vision and creativity as a runner. He's hard to tackle because of his size and strength and ability to change gears in short spaces. In Fitzgerald's case, he's tall and can run away from defenders in the open field, but really has excelled because he's remarkably consistent and barely needs any separation to be "open."

To me it's fairly clear the difference in the caliber of speed watching our offense compared to Philly or New Orleans or Detroit.

Personally, I think Denard is more talented than Armanti Edwards and will get more opportunities at the NFL level. I guess a WR early could be considered a luxury pick but I think it could be a very impactful pick all the same. I also think it's important we field the best possible group of receivers to facilitate RGIII's development.

But when I said team speed was a deficiency, I meant that it's a roster wide situation. I think the OL is lacking speed too though outside of Trent. More importantly, it's lacking size plus speed after Trent. You can field an effective unit with only decent athletes if you're lucky. But there will still be matchups they can't win. And I think the defense is certainly lacking speed and has gotten exposed because of it in the past. There is a definite difference in speed between our unit and elite units like the 49ers and Ravens.

[2STaylor1]

QB?????? WR?????? Really??????? Ok'dokey then. HTTR

MAYBE you meant CB and OL. Right?

you misunderstood or i wasnt clear, i meant hopefully next year we will be able to add qb and wr to the list of positions we are set at.

[gorebd82]

I think its rare to be able to draft a player that you can expect to come in and be a playmaker right away outside the first round.
Outside of the 1st round by and large I think playmaking emerge rather then our drafted.
There is ample unknown potential within the current passing game. (Morgan, Hankerson, Robinson, Briscoe)
And until we know something about those players ability within the offense I would not use the precious early round draft picks for skill position players.
Drafting a Denard Robinson to me would border on amassing talent as opposed to building a team.

If they weren't drafted in the first round, they don't count. Never mind one of the worst OLs in football has 3 first rounders starting, and one of the best OLs in football has like, none?

But anyway, about Denard Robinson - I'd love to have him, honestly. We've been looking for a *true* gamebreaker for so long, and RGIII would certainly appreciate one. The problem is, can we go without investing more draft picks in other areas? I think Robinson is a bit of a luxury pick, given that he'll be playing positions we have quite a bit of depth at, and he's not a lock to be BPA either. I think it depends on whether our problem areas perform above expectations.*

I'd definitely consider him with our 2nd, and if he's there at our 3rd, I take him and don't look back.

I think, if I had to gauge it right now, there's four positions will be looking at going into next year; right tackle (if a good one falls), tight end, safety and corner. Denard is going to be one of those guys like Armanti Edwards, and he's a bit of a luxury pick.

I don't think that you can draft a skill position player (again outside of using a 1st round pick) that you can count on and expect them to be a year 1 playmaker.

I like Denard too and would be very interested in drafting him. *I love his running style, elite shiftiness and speed but also elite patience and vision and ability to pick his way up field for yards.

But I do have a slight trepidation with drafting him that needs to be addressed through the predraft process. We need to see what he looks like catching the ball and he should show some nascent route running ability/show an ability to learn the WR position for the NFL level.

I absolutely doubt this will be the case, but if Denard shows just awful hands or instincts for the WR position then it makes him almost undraftable IMO. We'd need him to be able to line up at WR to get him on the field enough to properly use him because I don't think he has the build of a workhorse RB.

I think Sproles is a good comparison for him. I think Percy Harvin is a good one too. Similar speed to Percy and he could be used in a similar WR/HB role.

I agree with your point that the offense could really use a gamebreaking talent at the skill positions. *RGIII is one, but he's a QB and we need him staying back and throwing the ball.

We need Denard's speed. Our entire team lacks speed outside of the LT, LB, and QB positions IMO. We're a power team built to play outdoors on natural grass in weather, which is appropriate. But you also need to have speed to match up with some of the great teams of the NFL and our offensive skill positions are pretty slow.

It doesn't have to be Denard though. But I think you're right that Denard will probably be one of the biggest playmakers left available in the mid second or later, mostly because of the difficulty in projecting him to a new position. I think he'll be one of the fastest players in the draft, probably the fastest decent offensive player in the second round.

There's a qualitative difference between a mid 4.4 speed guy and a low 4.3 speed one. To me, Aldrick Robinson is the only offensive skill position player with elite burst to match great top end speed. And unless Robinson has a really impressive year, he'll remain on our roster bubble,, without draft status to protect him.

-------------

To me it's fairly clear the difference in the caliber of speed watching our offense compared to Philly or New Orleans or Detroit.

Personally, I think Denard is more talented than Armanti Edwards and will get more opportunities at the NFL level. I guess a WR early could be considered a luxury pick but I think it could be a very impactful pick all the same. I also think it's important we field the best possible group of receivers to facilitate RGIII's development.

But when I said team speed was a deficiency, I meant that it's a roster wide situation. I think the OL is lacking speed too though outside of Trent. *More importantly, it's lacking size plus speed after Trent. *You can field an effective unit with only decent athletes if you're lucky. *But there will still be matchups they can't win. *And I think the defense is certainly lacking speed and has gotten exposed because of it in the past. *There is a definite difference in speed between our unit and elite units like the 49ers and Ravens.

I'm so glad that this is a real conversation and not just dismissed as crazy talk. A lot has been said so I just kind of picked pieces of commentary that I'm responding to.

First, I think Steve gets exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to these impact players that have paralyzing speed. We have guys with a good size to speed ratio. Lots of 4.4, 6'0", 200 lb. plus WRs. Reliable RBs. Athletic TEs. But nobody that impacts the way the entire defense plays. Just having Denard on the field causes the slight hesitation that leads to Garcon streaking down the field or the safety to freeze and leave a seam wide open on the stretch play. We run a WCO with spread and vertical elements and we like to move our line with stretches and bootlegs. Our offense creates space, but RGIII and Banks are the only players with the speed and creativity to take advantage.

One major difference is that I see DR as more of a RB. I definitely expect him to emerge as a pass catcher and route runner, but he's bigger than guys like Best and Sproles and has gained almost 3000 yards in the last two seasons. I see him as the lead guy in our RBBC, though not a 20 carry workhorse. *I could see him getting 8-10 carries with a couple of guys from Morris, Helu, or Royster splitting the rest, similar to the Saints. *Running is his strength so I wouldn't ask him to be something different. I'd imagine his touches would mostly be about getting him space near the LOS. *Stretches, pitches, draws, RB & WR screens, and drags. With time and practice, I think he is smart and talented enough to get the whole route tree and develop as a returner.

As for the luxury of the pick, I disagree that we have bigger needs. *I think we have some options that need to play out at S, CB, and OL. *We've drafted and brought in FAs in the spots. I see those situations as similar to the competition at WR and RB, people just like the candidates at those positions better. For instance, I see a 1st round pick, two time Pro Bowl safety on our roster vs. a 4th rounder and two 6th rounders at RB. Same about the competition on the line. I also think that we can find a really good OL or S in FA or in the 3rd/4th round area. *You don't find dynamic skill guys often in FA or after the rounds 1 & 2. But RB is a position where you can get an immediate impact guy and I think Denard can be one of those guys. Give him space, put the ball in his hands and let him go.

I think that a speed demon is our biggest "area" of need rather than considering "position" of need. *Just like when you need a pass rusher, it can come from DT, DE, LB or red zone target can be WR, TE. Denard could easily be our top offensive option.

I think we are building our team similar to Green Bay and NO. As of right now, our defense is better than either of those teams, but our offense needs to get to that level. *Both of those offenses have elite QB play and waves of skill position players to bring in. I think we have our potential elite QB and waves of talent to bring in. But the Pack and Saints also have Jordy Nelson, Finley, Jimmy Graham and Sproles as special talents to open up opportunity for everyone else. Denard is a guy that can be that special talent, but do it without completely killing the WR or RB pipelines. *His versatility allows us to use everyone.*


PS. Sorry for the random asterisks. Wrote the response in Notepad so it wouldn't get lost in a refresh and it did weird formatting.

[Chump Bailey]

Safety or OT with our 1st overall in 2013. I'd be shocked otherwise.

[DogofWar1]

Hank ran in the 4.43 range, didn't he? Pierre ran 4.48 and he's pretty good at getting behind a defense. Sometimes I think speed is the most overrated aspect of a skill position player. Larry Fitzgerald ran like a 4.63, and he's Larry Fitzgerald.

Just wanted to say I agree with this sentiment. Speed is on the list of things to look at for a WR, but it's way down that list. Body control, hands, route running, and ability to play through contact are all above pure speed. I might even rank blocking higher too. A good blocking WR is an underrated asset in the NFL, since that adds a whole new dimension to the passing game.

Safety or OT with our 1st overall in 2013. I'd be shocked otherwise.

Yup, looking up FS prospects as we speak. It's probably too early to talk targets, but John Boyett caught my eye. Seems like a good tackler, is a senior. His pass defending dropped off a bit last year, but he started this year with a pick.