2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[Monk4thaHALL]

Let me introduce you to a LB who is currently flying off of the radar.

Rated as the 43rd ranked player at his position by draft scout:
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...013&genpos=olb

At CBS, he's listed as the 49th prospect:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/p...kings/2013/OLB

A player who has racked up (total) tackles:
2009: 89
2010: 84 / 2 INT
2011: 77 / 6 INT
http://espn.go.com/college-football/...hillip-steward

And currently this season has 26 total tackles (solo & combined) in two games
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/playerDetai...=288&player=42

He's about 6' 1" - 225 pounds.

Phillip Steward:
http://www.uhcougars.com/sports/m-fo...phillip00.html

vid:


He's played in multiple schemes at Houston both 3-4 and 4-3 as an OLB. Last year (2011), as you might know Steward played in a base 3-4, he lined up as an OLB, yet often in passing situations he cover the slot receiver, which was interesting. He really wasn't a pass rusher. Not what he was known for.

This year 2012, Houston is running a straight 4-3, again Steward as an OLB. He's a stack LB, read and react. Also runs 4-2-5. He's asked to cover ground on pass coverage.

He's an active tackler, aggressive and apparently has a very good feel for zone coverage, dropping and reading pass. There's something compelling about a productive small school guy that routinely has double digit games in the tackle column.

[stevemcqueen1]

Another great post Monk. I love when you bring up under the radar prospects I'd never heard of.

Where do you see a player like Steward fitting in? He's pretty undersized to play in our base packages. You see him as a nickel linebacker? What about some strong safety?

-----

Also, I wanted to return to the topic of Taylor Lewin from a couple of pages ago. In comparing him to some of the other tackles this year, I'm more in agreement with you that his stock should be on the rise.

He's a really good looking run blocker who is comfortable playing in space and he's one of the few tackles I've seen who could run block and also protect the edge against speed. I do think there are some technique issues he's behind the curve on. But high level coaching could address those. The only other issue that could be important is that I think his base looks a little light. A result of him being so tall?

The physical skill set is impressive though. His outstanding length paired with outstanding footspeed and flexibility is really impressive. He's very reminiscent of the other excellent "tall" tackles to have come out recently, like Veldheer, Solder, and Vollmer.

It'd be nice if he fell to us in the second but I would expect him to be gone by the 20's in the first round.

---------- Post added September-14th-2012 at 09:02 AM ----------

What do you all think about Star Lotuleilei and Johnathan Hankins?

[gorebd82]

Um, I don't think you're understanding my view.
The strategy I advocate is not the strategy of the old regime which constantly chased players and positions and did not focus on the draft as they regularly traded away draft picks.
My view does not rely nor count on FA to build a team.
Imo going after players like Clady, Talib and Reggie Bush is chasing and its merely a slight variation of what the Redskins have done.

Apologies, I don't think that I expressed myself very clearly. I'm not saying that you share the same philosophy as the old regime. I was mostly talking about the caliber of prospect you prefer to target, those middle tier guys. Guys get overpaid in FA and from what I've noticed, the best way to get bang for your buck is to pursue the elite guys. Peppers and Mario Williams don't have problems living up to their deals, Andre Carter and maybe even Pierre Garcon does. Or a guy like Chris Chester that is on a good deal becomes a bad deal if a rookie comes in here and takes his spot. If you pay an elite guy, no one is taking his spot.

As for Reggie Bush and Talib, those are deals for guys that can produce at an elite level, but come at discounted prices. Bush has been averaging 5 ypc since leaving NO because the Saints saw more value in using him as a decoy, but the Dolphins have made a commitment (by necessity) to let him truly be a lead RB. So he's highly productive, has elite speed, is great in space, and an elite receiving RB, but his lack of production early in his career and a somewhat unfair diva reputation will prevent him from commanding a Ray Rice/Chris Johnson/Adrian Peterson type of contract. Talib can be an elite player, but we know his warts. DC is an ideal landing spot for him because of the support system that will surround him.

[stevemcqueen1]

I like Reggie Bush but one of the things that gives me pause is his tendency to pick up negative runs. That limits his upside for our scheme because he'll lose opportunities from racking up negative runs. Alex Gibbs talks about how the one thing they preach in the running game was no negative plays. The offense depends on having good leverage situations for each down .

It's the same problem I had with David Wilson, and it's a problem we had with Ryan Torrain while he was here.

Bush could command a sizable contract and get taken out of games in favor of Alfred Morris because he strings runs out and gets tackled behind the line while Morris always at least gets to the LoS.

But the two areas where Reggie would be a tremendous boon is as a receiver and a kick returner. We could go wild with our formations with a back who catches like him, and we could use him as an upgrade over Banks and free up a roster spot there.

I think Talib makes a lot of sense for us and he's the one FA I'd bet on us getting. His off field problems are a concern, but his single coverage ability plus natural playmaking ability would be a difference maker for the defense. As a true #1 outside starting type CB, he upgrades three positions at once in a way. He's a better option to single cover big, playmaking receivers, and thus pushes Wilson onto the secondary receiver (an upgrade over Hall), and Hall into an interesting slot role (an upgrade over our third CB). From the slot, Hall would be easier to blitz and use in that interesting Charles Woodson-style role. Free him up to make plays without worrying about the coverage breaking down on the outside.

Talib, Hall, Wilson is actually an impressive group of corners to pair with a front that already has at least two or three Probowl caliber players in it. I think we'd be one of the best defenses in the NFC.

Wilson, Fletcher, Bowen, Carriker, and Cofield are all on good contracts. Jenkins, Riley, Orakpo, Gomes, and Kerrigan are all on rookie deals. Merriweather has another year on his contract after this one.

Cedric Griffin and Tanard Jackson are the only notable UFAs.

Let's say we keep our low key FAs and sign Tanard Jackson and Aqib Talib. Without knowing what any of our draft picks will be, this is the unit (and their cap hit) we put out next year:

DE: Bowen ($ 5.5 M), Carriker ($ 3.9 M), Jenkins ($ 1.3 M), Golston (~$ .7 M)
NT: Cofield ($ 6.4 M), Neild ($ .5 M) or Baker (~$ .6 M)
OLB: Orakpo ($ 2.9 M), Kerrigan ($ 2.4 M), Wilson (~$ .7 M), Jackson (~$ .7 M)
ILB: Fletcher ($ 6.2 M), Riley ($ .7 M), Alexander (~$ 1.1 M), Robinson ($ .59 M)
CB: Hall ($ 8.3 M), Wilson ($ 5.3 M), Talib (Spitballing, ~$ 5.5 M), Crawford ($ .5 M), Cedric Griffin (guessing ~$ 3.5 M)
S: Merriweather ($ 3.5 M), Doughty ($ 1.2 M), Gomes ($ .6 M), Jackson (~$ .7 M)

Draft picks could obviously replace some players or make some FA acquisitions unnecessary. Anyway, that group of players right there probably ends up being about 63 million in cap commitment, probably around half our cap before the 18 million penalty from John Mara is taken out. You could avoid signing Griffin to save money, and Deangelo could probably be restructured. But all in all, 63 million for a unit that would probably be top 3 in the NFC isn't bad at all.

Keep in mind though, Orakpo will need to be extended following the season, and his contract will almost certainly be north of 10-11 million a year.

Signing Talib and keeping our current defense intact probably rules out any important FA acquisitions on the offense. I'm OK with that though if we are able to find an OT in the draft.

[Dukes and Skins]

Talking about Star and Hankins Steve, Right now I have Star #1 based on his untapped potential and what he could potentially become as a DT, but Hankins in his own right is going to be a heck of a DT

[gorebd82]

I like Reggie Bush but one of the things that gives me pause is his tendency to pick up negative runs. That limits his upside for our scheme because he'll lose opportunities from racking up negative runs. Alex Gibbs talks about how the one thing they preach in the running game was no negative plays. The offense depends on having good leverage situations for each down .

It's the same problem I had with David Wilson, and it's a problem we had with Ryan Torrain while he was here.

Bush could command a sizable contract and get taken out of games in favor of Alfred Morris because he strings runs out and gets tackled behind the line while Morris always at least gets to the LoS.

But the two areas where Reggie would be a tremendous boon is as a receiver and a kick returner. We could go wild with our formations with a back who catches like him, and we could use him as an upgrade over Banks and free up a roster spot there.

I think a lot of the perception of Reggie was shaped by how he was used in New Orleans. From what I've seen and read, it seems like Reggie hasn't shown a hesitancy to hit the hole down in Miami and doesn't dance as much. In NO, he was being asked to run in a power scheme that doesn't really fit his skillset as much as a guy like Pierre Thomas. I think that in our ZBS where he can spot a seam and go, that his improved mindset about hitting the hole and ability to cut to the back side would be a perfect complement to our RBBC. I'd love to see him get 10-12 carries a game, 4-5 receptions, and return kicks/punts. He's a guy that can split carries, but turn 15-18 touches into 100+ yards from scrimmage.

He fits the mold (an I think is the prototype) for the player that I've been longing for in our offense. It is essentially a Brandon Banks upgrade. That Jahvid Best, David Wilson, Sproles, Denard Robinson type of threat is not necessarily our top need, but would benefit our team the most IMO. Bush took $5 million per year down in Miami and I think he'd be willing to accept a similar salary. Maybe he looks for a slight pay raise to $6 million, but get nowhere near the $8-10 million range of top backs. Our biggest thing would be selling him on playing a hybrid role that isn't as one dimensional as Miami, but involves way more touches than NO. I think playing with RG3 and for Mike Shanahan/in this system can be the big selling point.

Talib, Hall, Wilson is actually an impressive group of corners to pair with a front that already has at least two or three Probowl caliber players in it. I think we'd be one of the best defenses in the NFC.

Yeah, Talib pushes down everybody one spot on the depth chart to their ideal place. Talib, Wilson, Hall with Crawford and Minnifield in the pipeline can be a great group for the next half decade.

Wilson, Fletcher, Bowen, Carriker, and Cofield are all on good contracts. Jenkins, Riley, Orakpo, Gomes, and Kerrigan are all on rookie deals. Merriweather has another year on his contract after this one.

Yeah, those are all great contracts, but if Jenkins pushes Carriker to the bench and we have a great 5 technique fall to us in the draft to push Bowen to the bench, they become way overpaid as reserves. That's all that I'm saying about the middle tier FAs. They get overpaid in the FA market, so unless they actually exceed past performance over the course of their deal, then it is viewed as a bad deal many times. If they play as they always have or lose their spots to a younger talent, then they get considered a bust. Our FO has done a good job so far of finding undervalued guys that perform better in our system (Cofield, Bowen, Garcon), but if we draft a stud DL, somebody now becomes a bust signing.

But I do love the way our current roster is structured from a salary standpoint. I think DHall is probably the only overpaid player at the moment, but he'll probably get restructured and be with us for years to come.

Signing Talib and keeping our current defense intact probably rules out any important FA acquisitions on the offense. I'm OK with that though if we are able to find an OT in the draft.

If we get Talib and Bush, then my top draft priority is OT. If we don't get Bush, then I'm leaning towards Robinson in the late 2nd (don't think he'll last til the late 3rd, especially after the impact of RG3) and then going OT with our 3rd.

[HailToTheRedskins14]

Also, if we get Talib, we don't really have much concern when DHall's contract comes up. We can let him resign cheap or let him walk. Wilson and Talib would be a great pair of CB's to have for the next 5 years or more.

[Dukes and Skins]

Also, if we get Talib, we don't really have much concern when DHall's contract comes up. We can let him resign cheap or let him walk. Wilson and Talib would be a great pair of CB's to have for the next 5 years or more.

I'd keep Hall as a #3 CB because he can be a very good fit there, but not at that contract he's at right now

[Laxpunk2006]

Yeah, those are all great contracts, but if Jenkins pushes Carriker to the bench and we have a great 5 technique fall to us in the draft to push Bowen to the bench, they become way overpaid as reserves. That's all that I'm saying about the middle tier FAs. They get overpaid in the FA market, so unless they actually exceed past performance over the course of their deal, then it is viewed as a bad deal many times. If they play as they always have or lose their spots to a younger talent, then they get considered a bust. Our FO has done a good job so far of finding undervalued guys that perform better in our system (Cofield, Bowen, Garcon), but if we draft a stud DL, somebody now becomes a bust signing.

But I do love the way our current roster is structured from a salary standpoint. I think DHall is probably the only overpaid player at the moment, but he'll probably get restructured and be with us for years to come.

Has Bowen not already exceeded expectations? I feel that way about all three of our starting DL. In addition I don't think that drafting an additional good player turns another into a bust of a signing. Does JPP make Osi's extension a bust? There are positions that benefit from rotation so it isn't always that simple.

I'm new to the conversation so forgive me if I'm off base on your intention.

[GWinSkins83]

Another great post Monk. I love when you bring up under the radar prospects I'd never heard of.

Where do you see a player like Steward fitting in? He's pretty undersized to play in our base packages. You see him as a nickel linebacker? What about some strong safety?

-----

Also, I wanted to return to the topic of Taylor Lewin from a couple of pages ago. In comparing him to some of the other tackles this year, I'm more in agreement with you that his stock should be on the rise.

He's a really good looking run blocker who is comfortable playing in space and he's one of the few tackles I've seen who could run block and also protect the edge against speed. I do think there are some technique issues he's behind the curve on. But high level coaching could address those. The only other issue that could be important is that I think his base looks a little light. A result of him being so tall?

The physical skill set is impressive though. His outstanding length paired with outstanding footspeed and flexibility is really impressive. He's very reminiscent of the other excellent "tall" tackles to have come out recently, like Veldheer, Solder, and Vollmer.

It'd be nice if he fell to us in the second but I would expect him to be gone by the 20's in the first round.

---------- Post added September-14th-2012 at 09:02 AM ----------

What do you all think about Star Lotuleilei and Johnathan Hankins?

I'm not even looking at player that are projected in the top half of the 1st round. Kawann Short is someone we can look at.

---------- Post added September-14th-2012 at 01:20 PM ----------

Orakpo ain't getting no 10 million a year. Believe that. 9 million is the most unless he has 13 or more sacks this year.

[stevemcqueen1]

Orakpo ain't getting no 10 million a year. Believe that. 9 million is the most unless he has 13 or more sacks this year.

Orakpo is averaging almost ten sacks a season. It's the same pace Lamarr Woodley set, and his contract averages just over 10 million a year. That deal will have been signed over two years prior to Orakpo's being negotiated so the market will inflate. At least 10 million a year is likely, and that's assuming Orakpo keeps his current pace and doesn't go off for 25-30 sacks in the next two years. Don't count that out.

Personally, I would work on an extension with Orakpo sometime during the next season and not let him hit the offseason without a contract. I would know I want him to be part of my long term plans. I don't see the point in letting him hit the market.

---------- Post added September-14th-2012 at 02:39 PM ----------

Anyone notice we're fifth in rushing and 4th in passing and first in total offense after week 1?

It honestly wouldn't shock me if we stay near those rankings throughout the year. Sure the Saints are bad defensively. Lots of the other teams we face will be too. I don't think we finish with a top five offense this year. But I don't think we'll be that far out. I'm thinking somewhere around 8th or 9th.

EDIT: Actually 5th in passing and 4th in rushing.

[DogofWar1]

DE: Bowen ($ 5.5 M), Carriker ($ 3.9 M), Jenkins ($ 1.3 M), Golston (~$ .7 M)
NT: Cofield ($ 6.4 M), Neild ($ .5 M) or Baker (~$ .6 M)
OLB: Orakpo ($ 2.9 M), Kerrigan ($ 2.4 M), Wilson (~$ .7 M), Jackson (~$ .7 M)
ILB: Fletcher ($ 6.2 M), Riley ($ .7 M), Alexander (~$ 1.1 M), Robinson ($ .59 M)
CB: Hall ($ 8.3 M), Wilson ($ 5.3 M), Talib (Spitballing, ~$ 5.5 M), Crawford ($ .5 M), Cedric Griffin (guessing ~$ 3.5 M)
S: Merriweather ($ 3.5 M), Doughty ($ 1.2 M), Gomes ($ .6 M), Jackson (~$ .7 M)

Nice squad for next year. It certainly would be a great defense.

One thing that I would hope will happen, and would save us about 3M off the estimate (before including Orakpo's new contract) might be if Minnifield comes back strong and pushes Cedric Griffin out. Heck, even without Minnifield I'd say he's probably gone if we land Talib. Talib, Hall, and Wilson would be an awesome top 3, and Crawford, if he grows, might be a solid enough #4. The 5th spot would either go to Minnifield or another young player/rookie.

I wouldn't count on Jackson at all though. He has to be reinstated by Goodell, and at this point I'm sort of doubting he will be, since this is his second indefinite suspension. Even if he's reinstated, it might not be until mid-season, similar to how he wasn't reinstated until October 11 last year, even though he was eligible for reinstatement September 22. Still, his cap # is small so not really a huge deal.

Finding an OT in the draft is gonna be tough with no first, but a 2nd might do the trick if the right guy is there. Here's to hoping that's the case.

[gorebd82]

Has Bowen not already exceeded expectations? I feel that way about all three of our starting DL. In addition I don't think that drafting an additional good player turns another into a bust of a signing. Does JPP make Osi's extension a bust? There are positions that benefit from rotation so it isn't always that simple.

I'm new to the conversation so forgive me if I'm off base on your intention.

I agree that Bowen has exceeded expectations so far, as has Cofield, Wilson. Our FO has shown a great knack for that. I just don't think that's the norm with mid tier signings. But if a year or two, we draft a NT that pushes Cofield to the bench as a $5 million backup, then the contract becomes a problem.

I do think that Osi's extension is a good example. Osi was elite and they got him on a great deal, but right now, that is a poor allocation of resources to pay that much money to a reserve player. They'd be better off trading Osi, using that money on an impact player at another position, and using the draft pick to draft a developmental DE.

My point is that our organization is now at a place where we do not need to sign a FA unless they are a drastic upgrade over our starters because we have very few holes. Or if we get them at a good rate at a position where we can rotate/play multiple people. That's why I advocate Talib and Bush, because they are a huge talent upgrade for discounted price and at positions of need.

Anyone notice we're fifth in rushing and 4th in passing and first in total offense after week 1?

It honestly wouldn't shock me if we stay near those rankings throughout the year. Sure the Saints are bad defensively. Lots of the other teams we face will be too. I don't think we finish with a top five offense this year. But I don't think we'll be that far out. I'm thinking somewhere around 8th or 9th.

EDIT: Actually 5th in passing and 4th in rushing.

I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility for us to be a top 5 offense or maybe close. The Panthers were 6th last year. I expect our rushing totals to stay really high because RGIII keeps the defenses guessing. I also expect the passing yardage to come in big chunks off the playaction. Having our stout defense that should be fresher than past seasons should also give our offense lots of opportunity. I think our offensive ranking will be higher than our scoring ranking though because we have more of a 3 and out defense rather than a high volume of turnovers unit. If anything, I'd imagine that the offensive ranking suffers because the running game is so successful. And I'd take that anyday.

Orakpo is averaging almost ten sacks a season. It's the same pace Lamarr Woodley set, and his contract averages just over 10 million a year. That deal will have been signed over two years prior to Orakpo's being negotiated so the market will inflate. At least 10 million a year is likely, and that's assuming Orakpo keeps his current pace and doesn't go off for 25-30 sacks in the next two years. Don't count that out.

Nice squad for next year. It certainly would be a great defense.

One thing that I would hope will happen, and would save us about 3M off the estimate (before including Orakpo's new contract) might be if Minnifield comes back strong and pushes Cedric Griffin out. Heck, even without Minnifield I'd say he's probably gone if we land Talib. Talib, Hall, and Wilson would be an awesome top 3, and Crawford, if he grows, might be a solid enough #4. The 5th spot would either go to Minnifield or another young player/rookie.

I wouldn't count on Jackson at all though. He has to be reinstated by Goodell, and at this point I'm sort of doubting he will be, since this is his second indefinite suspension. Even if he's reinstated, it might not be until mid-season, similar to how he wasn't reinstated until October 11 last year, even though he was eligible for reinstatement September 22. Still, his cap # is small so not really a huge deal.

Finding an OT in the draft is gonna be tough with no first, but a 2nd might do the trick if the right guy is there. Here's to hoping that's the case.

Orakpo is definitely getting paid $10 million plus. He already has two Pro Bowls under his belt and with improved surrounding personnel, his sack numbers should go up. I think Cedric Griffin is definitely a one season guy now that I consider a high possibility of signing Talib and Minnifield returning. As for Tanard, I'd imagine that the NFL will be more reasonable about letting him know his fate. If he's reinstated, he's a Skin. If not, on to the next one.

One thing to consider about our cap situation next year is that we have $6 million in space this season that we can roll over to next year. So it's more like a $12 million hit. That $6 million can go towards getting somebody like Reggie Bush (my obvious preference).

[GWinSkins83]

I agree that Bowen has exceeded expectations so far, as has Cofield, Wilson. Our FO has shown a great knack for that. I just don't think that's the norm with mid tier signings. But if a year or two, we draft a NT that pushes Cofield to the bench as a $5 million backup, then the contract becomes a problem.

I do think that Osi's extension is a good example. Osi was elite and they got him on a great deal, but right now, that is a poor allocation of resources to pay that much money to a reserve player. They'd be better off trading Osi, using that money on an impact player at another position, and using the draft pick to draft a developmental DE.

My point is that our organization is now at a place where we do not need to sign a FA unless they are a drastic upgrade over our starters because we have very few holes. Or if we get them at a good rate at a position where we can rotate/play multiple people. That's why I advocate Talib and Bush, because they are a huge talent upgrade for discounted price and at positions of need.



I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility for us to be a top 5 offense or maybe close. The Panthers were 6th last year. I expect our rushing totals to stay really high because RGIII keeps the defenses guessing. I also expect the passing yardage to come in big chunks off the playaction. Having our stout defense that should be fresher than past seasons should also give our offense lots of opportunity. I think our offensive ranking will be higher than our scoring ranking though because we have more of a 3 and out defense rather than a high volume of turnovers unit. If anything, I'd imagine that the offensive ranking suffers because the running game is so successful. And I'd take that anyday.





Orakpo is definitely getting paid $10 million plus. He already has two Pro Bowls under his belt and with improved surrounding personnel, his sack numbers should go up. I think Cedric Griffin is definitely a one season guy now that I consider a high possibility of signing Talib and Minnifield returning. As for Tanard, I'd imagine that the NFL will be more reasonable about letting him know his fate. If he's reinstated, he's a Skin. If not, on to the next one.

One thing to consider about our cap situation next year is that we have $6 million in space this season that we can roll over to next year. So it's more like a $12 million hit. That $6 million can go towards getting somebody like Reggie Bush (my obvious preference).

Man what's up with people and Reggie Bush?

[ConnSKINS26]

I'm not sure I'd want Reggie Bush as a FA at his current age even if he makes it through the season mostly healthy, but I do agree that in a way he is a prototype for the type of X-Factor that this offense could thrive with. That, along with RT and possibly S, should be our top priority going into next season.

Anyone have a list of impending UFA's at RT? I think its more realistic to expect that we either have no shot at, or no interest, in paying Thomas or Clady top-8 LT money to play RT. But assuming we can pick up a reliable option at RT in FA, I actually feel surprisingly good about our OL going forward, especially with RG3 taking pressure off of them. If Polumbus, Compton, or a reasonably priced FA RT can supply above-average play at RT I'd easily make a versatile playmaker on offense our #1 need this offseason, to maximize the potential of RG3 and our offensive unit as a whole.

These players are not necessarily similar, but they all encompass what I'm talking about: Bush, Sproles, Jahvid Best, Randall Cobb, Dexter McCluster (though he's at the bottom of this "playmaker scale"), CJ Spiller, Percy Harvin. A lite version of this might entail a guy like Chris Rainey, who I really wanted to grab for this role at a relatively cheap price.

Someone with elite speed, good hands, deadly quicks, and a penchant for making big plays when gotten the ball in open space as a RB and WR is what we need for this offense to reach the next level. The things the Shanahans could dream up with any player like this on the same field as RG3...ridiculous.

My biggest candidates right now, at first glance, are Denard Robinson and Tavon Austin.