2013 Comprehensive NFL Draft Database

[skinzwiz]

Look at any offense without their #1 WR, every offense experiences a drop off without their #1 WR.

Also, I think the notion that our W/L record is completely reliant on whether Garcon plays or not is very naive. There are so many other factors at play during that result in the W/L record. Turnovers, TE production (Davis injured over lapped Garcon's missed games), quality of defenses faced etc..etc..etc...

The bottom line is our offense was very productive this year. That is a fact and no amount of circumstance changes that. Garcon and Davis missed a large bulk of the season and the offense still finished #4 in scoring and #5 in yards.

I disagree the offense struggled towards the end of the season. If stopping this offense was as simple as you suggest then we would not have such a high level of production both in scoring and in yards.

How can you talk about offensive ranking stats, but dismiss the most meaningful stat of all....wins and losses. It is not a fluke that this team was 1-5 without Garçon and 10-1 with him.

Later in the season, defenses stopped falling for the fakes that got the WRs open. The result was that Pierre and sometimes Moss, were the only ones getting open. It's easy to see in the last games.

[darrelgreenie]

How can you talk about offensive ranking stats, but dismiss the most meaningful stat of all....wins and losses. It is not a fluke that this team was 1-5 without Garçon and 10-1 with him.

I repsectfully disagree that Garcon is the sole reason for the W/L record. We're talking about football not tennis. Football is a team sport. Garcon is but one small part of the team.
The offensive rankings are what they are, they don't support your view but that doesn't mean you can dismiss them.

Later in the season, defenses stopped falling for the fakes that got the WRs open. The result was that Pierre and sometimes Moss, were the only ones getting open. It's easy to see in the last games.

I again, disagree. Our receivers get open. The play-action works and has been working all season because play-action always works when you run the ball. Even in the Seahawks game our offense was working fine.

[Samuels]

Been watching alot of prospects the last 2 days.

I think Honey Badger is my favorite prospect in this draft absolutely love his playmaking in your face aggressive style. Other then being alittle short and not a burner he is a stud and still only 20. To think this kid was making impact plays like this at 18-19 years old is just disgusting.

The kid is aggressive will smack you in the mouth. Great blitzer, good aggressive tackler and a flatout ballhawk causing fumbles and picking passes. I honestly think he can be a hellva safety or slot corner he has a hellva football IQ. I believe he is gonna be a serious steal in this draft and make game changing plays in the league. He does'nt have to be a outside Cb to be effective.

This is'nt even getting into his ability on special teams. He is great covering kicks and as a returner.

Somebody is gonna get a huge steal.

[Alcoholic Zebra]

And, i'm curious why you chose to pan Corey Lynch, a player you admittedly know little about, as opposed to panning FA prospects like Ryan Mundy or Glover Quin?

I doubt Mundy leaves Pittsburgh. He's Restricted, and they want to keep him around because Polamalu is injury prone and Ryan Clark will be in the last year of his contract.

Glover Quin is interesting. Converted corner, but a lot of people kind thought he'd turn into a safety when coming out of college. There's a lot of defensive talent in Houston, and the Texans secondary has some good to great players. It becomes a little more difficult separating whose responsible for how much there. I wouldn't mind it.

[skinzwiz]

I repsectfully disagree that Garcon is the sole reason for the W/L record. We're talking about football not tennis. Football is a team sport. Garcon is but one small part of the team.
The offensive rankings are what they are, they don't support your view but that doesn't mean you can dismiss them.

I again, disagree. Our receivers get open. The play-action works and has been working all season because play-action always works when you run the ball. Even in the Seahawks game our offense was working fine.

I never said Garçon was the SOLE reason, but I think it is a large part of it. No other player on this offense matches his big play ability. Without him, the team is very limited in big play potential. I think another playmaker at WR would be great.

And I dismissed the stats when talking about the back end of the season. The fact is they are misleading to the actual passing stats in those games. Just like RGIII's athleticism often hid Polumbus' poor blocking, it also created windows for WRs. We saw that greatly diminish toaward's season end. The WRs should not be that dependent on RGIII running and keeping plays alive for 10 seconds.

---------- Post added January-8th-2013 at 04:22 PM ----------

I doubt Mundy leaves Pittsburgh. He's Restricted, and they want to keep him around because Polamalu is injury prone and Ryan Clark will be in the last year of his contract.

Glover Quin is interesting. Converted corner, but a lot of people kind thought he'd turn into a safety when coming out of college. There's a lot of defensive talent in Houston, and the Texans secondary has some good to great players. It becomes a little more difficult separating whose responsible for how much there. I wouldn't mind it.

I'd much rather draft a safety and resign Meriwether and Jackson than pick up Lynch or Mindy. Would love Quin though.

[Laron Burgundy]

If Robert Woods is there in the 2nd round when we pick, you have to take him right?
Any draft gurus know if we have any shot of getting an Eric Reid, Jordan Pryor or an Xavier Rhoads past the 2nd round? If Woods is there, and there is a chance he is there, then I just think you MUST draft him.

Id love for us to get Woods in the 2nd, then Pryor/Reid/Rhoads in the 3rd and Mathieu in the 4th. Id be ecstatic.

I feel like Woods may be just another USC receiver. Lee is the real talent on that team. Woods looks like a possession receiver while only weighing 190 pounds. That won't work in the nfl. Maybe he succeeds in the nfl, I have serious doubts, but if Rhodes, Poyer or Reid are there when he is then I'm taking all 3 of them over him.

---------- Post added January-8th-2013 at 04:57 PM ----------

I never said Garçon was the SOLE reason, but I think it is a large part of it. No other player on this offense matches his big play ability. Without him, the team is very limited in big play potential. I think another playmaker at WR would be great.

And I dismissed the stats when talking about the back end of the season. The fact is they are misleading to the actual passing stats in those games. Just like RGIII's athleticism often hid Polumbus' poor blocking, it also created windows for WRs. We saw that greatly diminish toaward's season end. The WRs should not be that dependent on RGIII running and keeping plays alive for 10 seconds.

---------- Post added January-8th-2013 at 04:22 PM ----------


I'd much rather draft a safety and resign Meriwether and Jackson than pick up Lynch or Mindy. Would love Quin though.

In what offenses do wr get wide open all the time though? When watching games with fans of other teams they often remark just how wide open our receivers were getting. Realistically some plays rg3 is just going to have to deliver the ball into tight windows. The seattle game is hardly an accurate example of how our offense would normally operate. You see wr not getting open soon enough, I see o-line not holding their blocks long enough and often times we hung rg3 out to dry with now dump offs. If we had an rb we could release into a route, or a tight end who could beat his man (mind you we already have both of those guys on the roster) we would have been fine.

There are so many examples of why you DON'T need better wr than we already have. Seattle has worse receivers, so does San Fran. TE's and RB's combined for 46% of their receiving yards, only 17% of ours. They routinely exploited our lack of coverage in the flats, and I feel it is something we could have done against them as well. If that's one thing I want to see Morris improve upon next year, it's his skill as a safety valve, but luckily we have Helu who was pretty good at that his rookie year.

Our wrs, while not elite, are one of the deepest bunches in the entire nfl. People will criticize them in the pittsburgh and seattle games, but they got the job done in 15 out of 17 games this year and I hardly blame seattle on them (Hankerson had a few rough drops, but they didn't really even have the time to get open, and when they were rg3 was too hurt to deliver an accurate pass). Wr just isn't a pressing need.

[skinzwiz]

In what offenses do wr get wide open all the time though? When watching games with fans of other teams they often remark just how wide open our receivers were getting. Realistically some plays rg3 is just going to have to deliver the ball into tight windows. The seattle game is hardly an accmple of how our offense would normally operate. You see wr not getting open soon enough, I see o-line not holding their blocks long enough and often times we hung rg3 out to dry with now dump offs. If we had an rb we could release into a route, or a tight end who could beat his man (mind you we already have both of those guys on the roster) we would have been fine.

There are so many examples of why you DON'T need better wr than we already have. Seattle has worse receivers, so does San Fran. TE's and RB's combined for 46% of their receiving yards, only 17% of ours. They routinely exploited our lack of coverage in the flats, and I feel it is something we could have done against them as well. If that's one thing I want to see Morris improve upon next year, it's his skill as a safety valve, but luckily we have Helu who was pretty good at that his rookie year.

Our wrs, while not elite, are one of the deepest bunches in the entire nfl. People will criticize them in the pittsburgh and seattle games, but they got the job done in 15 out of 17 games this year and I hardly blame seattle on them (Hankerson had a few rough drops, but they didn't really even have the time to get open, and when they were rg3 was too hurt to deliver an accurate pass). Wr just isn't a pressing need.

I did not say anything about the WRs getting open ALL the time. They got open earlier in the season due largely to the system/RGIII's athleticism. But when defense figure you out and know what you like to, which typically always happens in the back half of a season, you just have to outplay them and execute better. WRs on this team not named Garçon and Moss can not do that at all.

And I never mentioned Seattle as an elite team. Without Lynch they are very mediocre on offense. I spoke of ELITE teams having multiple threats. San Fran does. Crabtree, Manningham, and Davis are all better than our #2...whoever that is. They also have guys that can create in the passing game coming out of the backfield.

[Dukes and Skins]

It'll be extremely interesting to see if Joeckel truly does declare from Texas A&M. Still hasn't made a decision and talk that he could return

[darrelgreenie]

I doubt Mundy leaves Pittsburgh. He's Restricted, and they want to keep him around because Polamalu is injury prone and Ryan Clark will be in the last year of his contract.

Glover Quin is interesting. Converted corner, but a lot of people kind thought he'd turn into a safety when coming out of college. There's a lot of defensive talent in Houston, and the Texans secondary has some good to great players. It becomes a little more difficult separating whose responsible for how much there. I wouldn't mind it.

This doesn't really answer my question about why you chose to pan Lynch but not Mundy or Quin, both btw rank lower then Corey Lynch according to PFF.

---------- Post added January-8th-2013 at 06:21 PM ----------

No other player on this offense matches his big play ability. Without him, the team is very limited in big play potential. I think another playmaker at WR would be great.

Dude, again, the above is true for most teams. Most teams don't have another player on their offense that matches the big play ability of their #1 WR. But, Moss made explosive plays last year, so did Hankerson and Aldrick Robinson. And Hankerson and Aldrick are players with upside and growth ahead of them.

I think another 'playmaker' at WR would be great also, but who's to say those playmaker's aren't already on the team?

And, chasing a 'playmaking' WR while passing over other areas of team building doesn't make much sense for an offense that is 4th in scoring and 5th in yards.

And I dismissed the stats when talking about the back end of the season. The fact is they are misleading to the actual passing stats in those games.

You're gonna have to be more specific because other then games where Griffin was obviously limited due to injury I didn't see a drop off in offense or the passing game.

[darrelgreenie]

2nd: BPA: CB, SS/FS, DL (penetrator/pass rusher), RT
3rd: BPA: CB, SS/FS, DL (penetrator/pass rusher), RT minus the round 2 selection
4th: BPA: CB, SS/FS, DL (penetrator/pass rusher), RT minus rounds 2 & 3 selections + ILB, TE, RB, WR
5th: BPA
5th: BPA
6th: Collin Klein or zone read capable developmental QB (depending on the OC i.e. if we're still running a lot of zone-read stuff)
7th: BPA

---------- Post added January-8th-2013 at 07:40 PM ----------

Caveat: I would always be willing to take a pass rusher or penetrating DL even if previously selected

[BayouBrave86]

Kevin Minter should be our replacement for Fletcher. He is the best inside linebacker in the draft. He is a Fletcher clone. Would love to have him on the Skins.

[SamoaSkinz]

Sorry, I tried to read through the 121 pages but will need a week to go over what been discussing and dissected.

My questions to Duke and DG and all other regular draftniks in this thread is

At our 2nd rd pick, who do you guys prefer to draft first - the best corner or Safety (FS or SS) available.

I do not follow the college game closely and reading the last few pages names like Amerson, Reid, Rhodes etc... are targets mentioned. I'll try to locate their scouting reports on the net.

Thanks

[Alcoholic Zebra]

I'd be absolutely stunned if any of those 3 you mentioned make it past round 2

Not only would I be shocked if Rhodes made it to round 3, I'd be surprised if he made it to round 2. He brings far too much to the table to not be a 1st rounder. He's got elite potential, I love how physical he is. Not many corners do what he does against the run. He's got ridiculous size for a corner.

---------- Post added January-8th-2013 at 09:06 PM ----------

This doesn't really answer my question about why you chose to pan Lynch but not Mundy or Quin, both btw rank lower then Corey Lynch according to PFF.

You need to adjust for competition. PFF is a solid base line, but it's a flat rating system. And how did I not answer the question? I'm just ignoring Mundy, he's Restricted and I really doubt Pitt lets him go.

[Dukes and Skins]

Kevin Minter should be our replacement for Fletcher. He is the best inside linebacker in the draft. He is a Fletcher clone. Would love to have him on the Skins.

He's more than likely a 1st rounder if not early and I mean early 2nd rounder

[darrelgreenie]

At our 2nd rd pick, who do you guys prefer to draft first - the best corner or Safety (FS or SS) available.

If both positions CB and S are equally best player available then I would draft the CB. In general I think CB is both a more impactful position and is a harder position to fill in the later rounds both in this draft and in general. Also, specific to this draft I think there is good depth at the S position to find a quality S in the 3rd round vs the quality of CB available in the 3rd round.

---------- Post added January-8th-2013 at 10:05 PM ----------

You need to adjust for competition. PFF is a solid base line, but it's a flat rating system. And how did I not answer the question? I'm just ignoring Mundy, he's Restricted and I really doubt Pitt lets him go.

Actually wouldn't you be the one that needs to adjust for competition? I take PFF metrics for what they are, a grade on a player's individual performance. I don't have an issue with their metric, it supports what my eyes tell me. I hope that when I view a metric that disagree's with my previous opinions I don't beg or have issue with the metric.

I asked why you chose to pan/criticize Lynch but not Mundy or Quin? I'm sorry if I missed a (direct) response to this question.

And I'm only asking because it struck me as a weird and arbitrary to admit to knowing little about a player then proceed criticize that player in response to an innocuous comment not even directed towards you.

I don't really want us to go after super expensive big name players for the secondary.....I think a better path would be to look for the lower tier guys still trending up or looking for an opportunity to take over a starting role or a featured role. Glover Quin and Ryan Mundy types.

(+1) I also like Corey Lynch.