***2012-13 NBA THREAD!!! New Season/New Thread - LET'S GO!!!!!***

[Die Hard]

I think a lot of people are sleeping on the Knicks. I`m surprised by it... but I do prefer it than being hyped up.

[Mr. Sinister]

Unlike your unfunny dig, you can actually make an argument for what I said.

Carry on, doe.

*edit*

I can see where this discussion will go..

Q: What makes Magic the better passer?

A: He has rings and played in the 80s

Yeah, I think the whole "Highlight reel" thing should be the other way around to be honest, as Magic was definitely the flashier passer (though Lebron is masterful in that respect as well), but I think you could definitely make an argument, if it weren't for the fact that Lebron has always been the primary scorer on his teams, especially in Cleveland where he was pretty much surrounded by crap. I think his assists per game numbers would actually be similar to Magic's if that weren't the case. Magic wasn't necessarily counted on to do that, and could just dish the rock to Kareem/Worthy, etc.

Both are/were extremely versatile, with great court vision though. I think if Lebron were in Magic's exact position back then, his numbers could possibly be better, when you consider how much attention he would attract on the floor.

Edit, not sure if it's just me or not, but everytime I see Sticks compare athletes of the past to modern athletes, I always get the feeling that he thinks he's 45 instead of 21.

[DM72]

I think a lot of people are sleeping on the Knicks. I`m surprised by it... but I do prefer it than being hyped up.

They have Melo and who else?

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Yeah, I think the whole "Highlight reel" thing should be the other way around to be honest, as Magic was definitely the flashier passer (though Lebron is masterful in that respect as well), but I think you could definitely make an argument, if it weren't for the fact that Lebron has always been the primary scorer on his teams, especially in Cleveland where he was pretty much surrounded by crap. I think his assists per game numbers would actually be similar to Magic's if that weren't the case. Magic wasn't necessarily counted on to do that, and could just dish the rock to Kareem/Worthy, etc.

Both are/were extremely versatile, with great court vision though. I think if Lebron were in Magic's exact position back then, his numbers could possibly be better, when you consider how much attention he would attract on the floor.

Edit, not sure if it's just me or not, but everytime I see Sticks compare athletes of the past to modern athletes, I always get the feeling that he thinks he's 45 instead of 21.

I can see the argument for Lebron being the better passer than Magic. You can make a case that guys like MJ or Kobe are better passers than a Kidd, Payton, Stockton, etc.

The reason why I dont like saying that is because people think "x player is a great passer so that makes him a great point guard," it doesnt work like that. Magic could organize an offense better than Lebron can (which is why I hate when people say Lebron can be a great point guard), just like Kidd, Payton, Stockton, Zeke, Nash can run an offense better than MJ and Kobe. Being a great passer doesnt make one a great point guard.


And I am not saying anyone in here is saying that, but its something I hear far too often from pundits in media and from a lot of fans.

[stevemcqueen1]

Magic is the better passer. I don't think anyone has ever been a better passer. Bird was amazing too, but Magic is the best. Some of the things he could do with the ball are unmatched. The 20 feet bounce passes in traffic that hit the teammate at the perfect time and place are a thing of beauty.

Plus Magic's career assist numbers destroy LeBron's.

[Sticksboi05]

Unlike your unfunny dig, you can actually make an argument for what I said.

Carry on, doe.

*edit*

I can see where this discussion will go..

Q: What makes Magic the better passer?

A: He has rings and played in the 80s

A highlight video doesn't prove who was/is a better passer was my point. The fact that he played in the 80s is irrelevant. Steve Nash is a better pure passer than every PG from that era minus Stockton, Isiah and Magic. I'll take the guy who had 9 straight seasons with over 10 assists per game in a high-flying offense (not the pick and roll Stockton/Malone trick). I will say LeBron on any given play has the ability to make passes as good as just about anyone who has ever played the game.

And if my response seemed snark I apologize.

[RonArtest15]

Yeah, I think the whole "Highlight reel" thing should be the other way around to be honest, as Magic was definitely the flashier passer (though Lebron is masterful in that respect as well), but I think you could definitely make an argument, if it weren't for the fact that Lebron has always been the primary scorer on his teams, especially in Cleveland where he was pretty much surrounded by crap. I think his assists per game numbers would actually be similar to Magic's if that weren't the case. Magic wasn't necessarily counted on to do that, and could just dish the rock to Kareem/Worthy, etc.

Both are/were extremely versatile, with great court vision though. I think if Lebron were in Magic's exact position back then, his numbers could possibly be better, when you consider how much attention he would attract on the floor.

Edit, not sure if it's just me or not, but everytime I see Sticks compare athletes of the past to modern athletes, I always get the feeling that he thinks he's 45 instead of 21.

I wholeheartedly agree with what you said.

---------- Post added October-1st-2012 at 03:39 PM ----------

I can see the argument for Lebron being the better passer than Magic. You can make a case that guys like MJ or Kobe are better passers than a Kidd, Payton, Stockton, etc.

The reason why I dont like saying that is because people think "x player is a great passer so that makes him a great point guard," it doesnt work like that. Magic could organize an offense better than Lebron can (which is why I hate when people say Lebron can be a great point guard), just like Kidd, Payton, Stockton, Zeke, Nash can run an offense better than MJ and Kobe. Being a great passer doesnt make one a great point guard.


And I am not saying anyone in here is saying that, but its something I hear far too often from pundits in media and from a lot of fans.

I also agree with a lot of what you said...especially the part of "being a great passer doesn't make one a great point guard."

I never once said Lebron would be a better PG, because that's irrelevant. I would be like saying Magic would be a better SF than Lebron. All I said was I feel as though Lebron is a better passer than Magic. Magic can do things Lebron can't and Lebron can do things that Magic can't.

[Sticksboi05]

Edit, not sure if it's just me or not, but everytime I see Sticks compare athletes of the past to modern athletes, I always get the feeling that he thinks he's 45 instead of 21.

My response literally had zero to do with the fact that Magic played in the 80s...zero. I have been on record as saying I already think LeBron is a top 10 player ever and will finish top 5. I just think that showing an 8 minute highlight video doesn't prove he is a better passer than a guy who had 9 straight seasons of 10 apg or more anymore than a Barry Sanders highlight "proves" he was better than Jim Brown or Payton (which he wasn't).

[RonArtest15]

Magic is the better passer. I don't think anyone has ever been a better passer. Bird was amazing too, but Magic is the best. Some of the things he could do with the ball are unmatched. The 20 feet bounce passes in traffic that hit the teammate at the perfect time and place are a thing of beauty.

Plus Magic's career assist numbers destroy LeBron's.

I'm not debating assist #'s or anything along those lines...I think Lebron has better court vision from a passing standpoint than Magic. That's all.

*Help me here...how do I multi-quote?

[Mr. Sinister]

My response literally had zero to do with the fact that Magic played in the 80s...zero. I have been on record as saying I already think LeBron is a top 10 player ever and will finish top 5. I just think that showing an 8 minute highlight video doesn't prove he is a better passer than a guy who had 9 straight seasons of 10 apg or more anymore than a Barry Sanders highlight "proves" he was better than Jim Brown or Payton (which he wasn't).

Nah, I knew what you meant. And you're absolutely right, watching one 8 minute clip is a horrible way to compare/contrast/ make an argument for any player in any sport being better than another...

---------- Post added October-1st-2012 at 02:57 PM ----------

RA, hit the icon next to the "Reply With Quote" tab to multi-quote

[DM72]

I'm not debating assist #'s or anything along those lines...I think Lebron has better court vision from a passing standpoint than Magic. That's all.

*Help me here...how do I multi-quote?

Better court vision than Magic? I wouldn't go that far. Magic's no look passes are legendary.

[stevemcqueen1]

Better court vision than Magic? I wouldn't go that far. Magic's no look passes are legendary.

Better than Bird's. And that's saying something.

---------- Post added October-1st-2012 at 04:06 PM ----------

I'm not debating assist #'s or anything along those lines...I think Lebron has better court vision from a passing standpoint than Magic. That's all.

*Help me here...how do I multi-quote?

I disagree. The degree of difficulty of some of the passes Magic routinely got off is jaw dropping. He had a ridiculous feel for the ball in his hands. He could do things as a passer than nobody else has been able to. Rubio can do some of them, but he doesn't approach Magic yet, and may never. Bird could do some of the no lookers and had similar vision and a ridiculous feel for the ball. But he didn't have the ability to move the ball around the court like Magic. Nobody has been better at the bounce pass and entry pass than Magic was.

The large discrepancy in LeBron & Magic's assist numbers points to the fact Magic was a better passer. Maybe if it was closer you could ignore it by saying LeBron doesn't always run point. But a 5 APG difference is enormous.

[DCranon21]

http://imageshack.us/a/img688/6594/stacktweet.png

Yes, I know both of their outfits cost an absolute grip...but Chandler/STAT look like some clowns who are trying WAY too hard. Not sure what's going on with "style" in the league, but dudes like D.Wade, Chandler, etc are all lost.

I blame Lil Wayne, 'Ye, and others who make this seem like this is "cool" You won't see Kobe doing that or Lebron. It must be a 27 and younger thing (no offense to MLSkins, Sin, Sticks, Steve, NoExcuses, and the rest of my young NBA heads who post in this thread). Also you are right, these cats are trying WAAYYYYY too hard.

[earl]

i almost never post in this thread. and although i am a die hard bullets fan i admit to not being an NBA fan at all. I am not trying to poo poo your thread, but Lebron vs Magic in terms of passing and vision is just flat out RETARDED. there is no argument here. I don't think Lebron's mother would argue he's a better passer/court vision then Magic. Seriously people do you even watch basketball? or is this based on shoe commercials. I don't ever call people out but whoever started this debate needs to be publically shunned. I wanted to say the same thing about the Ali vs. Tyson thread but i chalked that up to generation gap. and i personally never saw Ali fight in real time so i made no comment. But in my head its not even a debate either. I mean Tyson wasn't even the best fighter of his generation.

Magic was not just passing to Kareem for all those assists. he took very mediocre players like AC Green, Scott, Vlade etc. and made them shine. He could pass w/ either hand from all angles and drop a dime w/ a bounce, bullet or lob. He could dominate a game by getting everyone involved. Last i checked Lebron's MO was he played and everyone stands around to watch him play. how does that make him a better passer? Lebron drawing the double/ triple team then dishing to the open man by using his height and athleticism to pass over defenders does not make him a better passer or see the court better then Magic. Magic made passing cool. His fastbreaks weren't just lobs to streaking players, it was art. he didnt' just pass to the open guys, he passed them open. He could create a passing lane by faking another pass thats how crucial he was.

Please carry on w/ your thread but I urge you not to expose yourself to criticism by making outlandish hyperbole . If i've offended you, then good that was my point. and no need to reply because this will be my first and last post in this thread, cuz its clear there is nothing to see here.

[Mr. Sinister]

I blame Lil Wayne, 'Ye, and others who make this seem like this is "cool" You won't see Kobe doing that or Lebron. It must be a 27 and younger thing (no offense to MLSkins, Sin, Sticks, Steve, NoExcuses, and the rest of my young NBA heads who post in this thread). Also you are right, these cats are trying WAAYYYYY too hard.

I see more 17-20 year olds dressing like that than anyone else. I don't see many cats around my age that dress like that. I just don't understand how someone can come out of their house looking like that. I normally interpret it as either a) a publicity stunt, or b) a cry for help. There is nothing stylish about it. It just looks absurd, on so many levels.