***2012-13 NBA THREAD!!! New Season/New Thread - LET'S GO!!!!!***

[Destino]

That stat line would be a good night from both a C and PF combined.

[Bubble Screen]

That stat line would be a good night from both a C and PF combined.

I won't argue that he's probably one of the two best big men in the league, but he did put up that line vs the Suns. I was more impressed with Paul George's line tonite.

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

I personally think the Bucks have the worst name in the NBA. Who the hell enjoys cheering for deer.

Fear the deer.

[Die Hard]

Mike D`Antoni already starting to put key players in the doghouse. Now it`s started with Pau. He`s going to ruin that franchise.

[authentic]

Mike D`Antoni already starting to put key players in the doghouse. Now it`s started with Pau. He`s going to ruin that franchise.

That's management's fault. They should've known not to hire him in the first place. They continue like this and they may end up as the 7th or 8th seed and get bounced in the 1st round.

---------- Post added December-5th-2012 at 09:46 AM ----------

there is nothing unlikely about it unless you just keep saying its unlikely

Lebron is about to be 28 at the end of the month and has many years left in his career. I dont see why its implausible to say he could be better than Jordan, and say he is as talented as Jordan right now.

I dont get why people dont want to appreciate the present. Its not a diss of Jordan, its more of an appreciation of how great a talent Lebron is.

and the ironic thing about the bolded part, Lebron may not be #1 but he is def in the top 5 in those categories, which you probably could not say about any of those other players.
.

I'm a big Lebron and MJ fan. its totally plausible that he could be better than MJ at the end of his career, which could place him as the greatest ever. IMO he's already in my top 7.

[stevemcqueen1]

there is nothing unlikely about it unless you just keep saying its unlikely

Lebron is about to be 28 at the end of the month and has many years left in his career. I dont see why its implausible to say he could be better than Jordan, and say he is as talented as Jordan right now.

I dont get why people dont want to appreciate the present. Its not a diss of Jordan, its more of an appreciation of how great a talent Lebron is.

It's flat out unlikely anyone matches Jordan's level again. If someone could do it, it'd be LeBron. But Jordan set the bar impossibly high, particularly for any perimeter player. These are things I think will never be bested:

- 7 straight scoring titles and 10 in 12 years (that he played, there was a retirement in there). Post merger NBA. As a guard. In the era of handchecking and pre-defensive 3 seconds. This will never be duplicated. The only thing that could keep Jordan form leading the league in scoring was an injury and early retirement.

- Career averages of 30, 6 & 5 on .497 shooting as a guard. In the handchecking era pre-defensive 3 seconds. Over a 15 season career. Again, nothing like that is ever happening again.

- Leading the league in PER 7 years in a row, career average PER of 27.9 and having only one season with a PER below 20 in his entire career--age 40 with 19.6--as a guard in the blah blah blah. Again, that's never going to be repeated.

- His 1988-87 season. The greatest season from a perimeter player in NBA history and probably the greatest season of the post-merger era. That season is never going to be topped from here on out.

- Leading the league in win shares an astounding 9 times (7 in a row before his retirement), as well as WS/48 8 times. He has 214 career WS, the best of any perimeter player in NBA/ABA history and he did it in only 1072 games. LeBron is going to have to haul ass to match that mark. He's definitely not going to do it as fast as Jordan did. He's already played 705 games and only has 136.4. LeBron has the sixth highest WS/48 in NBA/ABA history and he's still getting dusted by Jordan's mark. Jordan is also the career leader in playoff WS with 39.76 in NBA/ABA history and that's an almost unfathomable gap for LeBron to close. The only way he will is if he plays a ton more games than Jordan did, and throw out George Mikan's uncompetitive era and LeBron is second in history in playoff WS/48.

- Career leader in WS/48 minutes in NBA/ABA history at an astounding .2505. Career leader in playoff WS/48 with an astounding .2553. Like I said, these will probably never be matched.

- 6 time champ, two threepeats, 6 time finals MVP. Doubt that happens again in my lifetime. Doubt we see a legit dynasty like that ever again. And while those Bulls teams were good, they weren't as talent laden as Miami currently is. Jordan never got to play with a player as good as Wade nor a big man as good as Bosh.

- 5 time MVP, and really it should have been at least seven or eight. In hindsight it's pretty indefensible giving it to Magic over him in 88-89 and even in 89-90 as well as Chuck over him in 92-93. It's also pretty bad giving it to Karl Malone in 96-97. I honestly think voters got bored giving it to him by that point, but he had pretty much been the undisputed best player in the league since 1988.

I mean that's just the beginning. His list of untouchables could go on forever. Just the amount of crazy shooting nights, the crazy performances, the clutch moments, the breathtaking plays, his utter invincibility after 1990. He just had a dominance that will probably never be matched.

and the ironic thing about the bolded part, Lebron may not be #1 but he is def in the top 5 in those categories, which you probably could not say about any of those other players.

Well LeBron is absolutely not one of the five most accomplished players in NBA history. Jordan, Wilt, and Kareem would probably be top five in each of those categories though. Jordan was the best athlete in the NBA until he got old. King sized two guard that was freakishly strong and pound for pound, probably the best leaper the NBA has ever seen. I believe it was actually Chuck who talked about how Jordan was as strong as he was one time on open court. That's ridiculous.

---------- Post added December-5th-2012 at 10:19 AM ----------

I'm a big Lebron and MJ fan. its totally plausible that he could be better than MJ at the end of his career, which could place him as the greatest ever. IMO he's already in my top 7.

I think the only way LeBron passes MJs accomplishments is if he plays for a lot longer than MJ did. Plausible since MJ played three years of college ball, missed two years of his prime from early retirement, and had his sophomore season wiped out from injury.

But taking a lot longer to achieve the same or better would totally cheapen the accomplishment.

[Die Hard]

That's management's fault. They should've known not to hire him in the first place. They continue like this and they may end up as the 7th or 8th seed and get bounced in the 1st round.[COLOR="Gold"]

Remember when apologists would like to remind us that he didn`t have big men like Pau and Howard before!! And how with Metta World Peace and Dwight Howard -- the number 1 defender in the universe -- he has better players at defending than he ever had which would make up for his defensive scheme defiencies!!!

I`m a casual NBA fan.... and I could see that this was a bad move. So I have to take some of you guys with a grain of salt... because I don`t think people here know half of much as what they believe they do.

[authentic]

Remember when apologists would like to remind us that he didn`t have big men like Pau and Howard before!! And how with Metta World Peace and Dwight Howard -- the number 1 defender in the universe -- he has better players at defending than he ever had which would make up for his defensive scheme defiencies!!!

I`m a casual NBA fan.... and I could see that this was a bad move. So I have to take some of you guys with a grain of salt... because I don`t think people here know half of much as what they believe they do.

Bad thing about all of this is that they squandered high draft picks for the next 3 seasons and have money tied up in old washed up players. They have no depth, a clueless lame duck coach (whether it be Brown, or D'Antoni). OH! plus DHoward is a free agent at the end of the season, and its not a surety that he re-signs.... That FO are a complete group of cluster ****s... And i warned Laker fans about this, as far back as the summer.

[stevemcqueen1]

I personally think the Bucks have the worst name in the NBA. Who the hell enjoys cheering for deer.

I love the Bucks' name. I like their colors and I love their history. They are one of the classics of the league and one of its most storied teams.

The NBA is full of bizarre nicknames but they're awesome when they get a great history and/or highlight something cool about the city the franchise was born in. Lakers and Celtics are weird names that don't really make sense but damned if they aren't two of the coolest things about the NBA. Those names mean something. 76ers, Pistons, Spurs, all odd, all fitting, all awesome. Rockets, Trail Blazers, and Mavericks, unique and damn cool. Supersonics was cool, and it's a shame the team moved to OKC and became the much more generic Thunder.

Magic... meh that's still pretty bad. The Disney Team! Fun!

Nothing is as bad as the Wizards though.

The names I don't really like are the generic ones like the Hawks and Warriors and Kings. They are just kind of boring.

The Pelicans is odd but it doesn't really mean anything. Does anyone think Pelican when they think New Orleans or Louisiana? I don't know, maybe for some people. I just feel like there were so many better options out there for NO to choose from.

[authentic]

I think the only way LeBron passes MJs accomplishments is if he plays for a lot longer than MJ did. Plausible since MJ played three years of college ball, missed two years of his prime from early retirement, and had his sophomore season wiped out from injury.

But taking a lot longer to achieve the same or better would totally cheapen the accomplishment.

I actually agree with that. Lebron still has ALOT of work to do.

[stevemcqueen1]

Bad thing about all of this is that they squandered high draft picks for the next 3 seasons and have money tied up in old washed up players. They have no depth, a clueless lame duck coach (whether it be Brown, or D'Antoni). OH! plus DHoward is a free agent at the end of the season, and its not a surety that he re-signs.... That FO are a complete group of cluster ****s... And i warned Laker fans about this, as far back as the summer.

They'll be alright if they can get Dwight to stay long term.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

and here is the other thing with Jordan, and what I said earlier... why is he the standard and not Kareem? Not Wilt? Not Oscar?


I really hate how the NBA has scrubbed the pre-1980 NBA from the books.

---------- Post added December-5th-2012 at 10:57 AM ----------

Remember when apologists would like to remind us that he didn`t have big men like Pau and Howard before!! And how with Metta World Peace and Dwight Howard -- the number 1 defender in the universe -- he has better players at defending than he ever had which would make up for his defensive scheme defiencies!!!

I`m a casual NBA fan.... and I could see that this was a bad move. So I have to take some of you guys with a grain of salt... because I don`t think people here know half of much as what they believe they do.

yeah, it was that No Excuses guy who was banging the _'Antoni drum.


I will still wait for Nash to come back before really going in, but this doesnt look good.

[Mr. Sinister]

Dwight is going to bail at the end of the season, and leave Kobe at the alter.

He must have been out of his mind to automatically assume that that dude would stay on, without a new contract, and "Learn the Laker way." I am thoroughly enjoying this.

[stevemcqueen1]

Dwight is going to bail at the end of the season, and leave Kobe at the alter.

He must have been out of his mind to automatically assume that that dude would stay on, without a new contract, and "Learn the Laker way." I am thoroughly enjoying this.

The team is a hodge podge without an identity right now. But I think when the offseason gets here and heads cool off, LA will offer a really attractive place for Dwight to play.

First, I think they get the extra year to offer him over everyone else. Second, the Lakers will be in position to sign a second star very soon. Third, LA is nice. It's a legit destination. Fourth, there is something to be said for Laker big man prestige.

I think they'll at least be on the short list of teams that can get him.

I think Brooklyn is still his preferred destination but they'd have to get rid of Brook Lopez first.

I think Chicago is his absolute best destination but for some reason that's never really been in play.

And I think there is still a chance he ends up working something out with CP3 and they find a way to play together somewhere. Both of them are in danger of becoming somewhat irrelevant but if those two teamed up, they'd be the best tandem in the NBA. Two legit top five players unlike Durant and Westbrook and LeBron and Wade. By that I mean Wade is no longer top 5 and Westbrook isn't.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

its either LA or Dallas, and I see Dwight staying in LA because they can offer the most money and Dallas dont have many pieces to give up for him.

Plus Dirk is old and is on a longer contract than Kobe.


But this stuff with Dwight is why I always maintain he is the worst "best center in the NBA" ever.