***2012-13 NBA THREAD!!! New Season/New Thread - LET'S GO!!!!!***

[MLSKINS]

Why do you think it was a dirty play? I just watched from the view above the backboard and Jones jumps towards him, but he never pushes him, held his hands up and even turns his head to look at the ball. I just think it was one of those basketball things where Kobe came down on the guys foot. I think it's solid defense. If this happened to Wall, do you honestly think the NBA would admit to a missed foul? I wouldn't have even called a foul on that play. The over the backboard view shows what I described.

You're giving him the benefit of doubt, and I can't get mad at you. It doesn't look like a dirty play, but it still doesn't mean it wasn't a dirty play. If this was the first time something like this happened with Jones, I wouldn't think too much of it, but I can't forget about this...

[DCranon21]

Why do you think it was a dirty play? I just watched from the view above the backboard and Jones jumps towards him, but he never pushes him, held his hands up and even turns his head to look at the ball. I just think it was one of those basketball things where Kobe came down on the guys foot. I think it's solid defense. If this happened to Wall, do you honestly think the NBA would admit to a missed foul? I wouldn't have even called a foul on that play. The over the backboard view shows what I described.

PJ, it's a play in basketball that you intentionally try and take out the best player by stepping in their space. You have to allow them to have space to land, instead of your foot. Jalen Rose came out and said he did this as well to hurt Kobe in Game 2 of the 2000 Finals. It's a dirty play performed by lots of players in the league. If this happened to Wall, to be honest the league would have informed the Wizards, but since Kobe is a marquee player, then the league had to come out and say something. But nothing will happen to Jones. He won't get a flagrant +1, fined, or suspended. But once again, he knew what he was doing.

[pjfootballer]

You're giving him the benefit of doubt, and I can't get mad at you. It doesn't look like a dirty play, but it still doesn't mean it wasn't a dirty play. If this was the first time something like this happened with Jones, I wouldn't think too much of it, but I can't forget about this...

Well, if he has been dirty in the past, then I can't blame some of you guys for thinking it, but I was just going off that particular play. The view from halfcourt makes it look worse than it was, but the view from atop the backboard really shows that he barely touched him. Like I said, I just think its an unfortunate case of him coming down on Jones foot. Happens all the time. But because it's "Kobe" I think ESPN and the league is being ridiculous about this. I think they fear that the precious Lakers won't be around for the playoffs to boost ratings if Kobe is hurt.

---------- Post added March-15th-2013 at 10:24 AM ----------

PJ, it's a play in basketball that you intentionally try and take out the best player by stepping in their space. You have to allow them to have space to land, instead of your foot. Jalen Rose came out and said he did this as well to hurt Kobe in Game 2 of the 2000 Finals. It's a dirty play performed by lots of players in the league. If this happened to Wall, to be honest the league would have informed the Wizards, but since Kobe is a marquee player, then the league had to come out and say something. But nothing will happen to Jones. He won't get a flagrant +1, fined, or suspended. But once again, he knew what he was doing.

While that may be true, I'm sure that players that perform that tactic aren't trying to intentionally injury guys. I still stand by the video from above and think it was just a freak thing that his ankle turns. If Jones doesn't play up tight on him, he has a free shot. I just think it's tough, solid defense.

[stevemcqueen1]

I think Carmelo is one of the most misunderstood players in the NBA. And think you can absolutely win a championship with him as your best player. He's one of the five best players in the league, you could win a championship with any of those guys.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

At any rate, he's not ever winning a title. At least not where he's the main guy. Colin Cowherd, as big an idiot as he is, described Carmelo to a T. He said that Carmelo is "Fool's Gold". PERFECT description of the guy. He's not a leader. He doesn't make ANYONE around him better. He can't defend. He's basically a bigger Allen Iverson, as someone stated earliere.

Can't defend?

Dirk.
Also, not true.

Not a leader?

Who went into a funk when his best friend was traded? Who crapped the bed in a Finals when the calls started going against his team? Who had to to Australia for three months to find his smile? Dirk. Dirk. Dirk.

Also, didn't we just go through this "not a leader stuff" with Lebron, like, 8 months ago. After the Celtics took the lead in that Series, the entire post game show was about how Lebron ran from the moment. Then he went out and had maybe the greatest playoff game ever played.

I hate NBA analysis because it always comes down to this reductive "winner" and "leader" garbage. In other sports, you don't actually have to do anything to be blessed with these titles. Someone like Chris Spielman never had to win a thing in his life and can be called a "winner' and "leader." In the NBA, you become a "winner" and "leader" when you win.

How do you know he's a winner? He won. Oh, okay.

It's really stupid. Basically, the argument is that if Jerry West had retired prior to the '72 season, he wouldn't have been a winner. But because he didn't, he is.

[MLSKINS]

... for the next week, I will be posting a dunk that I think, scratch that... THAT I KNOW!!! is a better dunk than Deandre Jordan's....

Day 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpLMmrvESNo

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I think Carmelo is one of the most misunderstood players in the NBA. And think you can absolutely win a championship with him as your best player. He's one of the five best players in the league, you could win a championship with any of those guys.

I've watched him in college. He was always the best player on the floor.

I've watched him in the Olympics. There were moments where I thought he was the best player on the floor. At no point was he ever less than the third best player on the team. I thought in '08, the pecking order was Kobe/Melo and in '12, it was Lebron/Melo.

I think he ultimately made a bad choice in forcing his way to New York. But in a strange way, that is admirable. That is not an easy team to play for and to willingly seek that pressure shows something. And, I know that there are people who are going to give him crap for that, but a ton of all-time greats have forced their way out of bad situations - Wilt, Walton, Moses, and Barkley come to mind quickly.

I think he has the most complete game in the NBA next to Lebron. And the only players I would take above him are Lebron and Durant.

---------- Post added March-15th-2013 at 10:06 AM ----------

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...-isnt-a-leader

This is after 2006 but before 2011.

I am guessing people on this board were killing Dirk as a soft choke artist back then.

[RonArtest15]

Complete game means you can impact the score in other ways if your shot isn't falling. Melo does not do that. Lebron impacts the game on BOTH ends of the floor. Melo does not. It goes on and on. You get zero argument from me as far as him being a deadly scorer. When he's rolling, he's close to unstoppable. However, he lacks commitment in other areas of his game which TO ME, doesn't make him nearly as complete of a player as you may think. He's got little-to-no hardware...no scoring titles - and never been 1st team all-nba.

I'm sorry, but I just can't co-sign Melo as being one of the 5 best players in the NBA. If I was starting a team, I personally wouldn't want anything to do with him. There are many other guys that I'd select over him for a variety of reasons.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I'm not entirely sure how saying someone is AI with Size is an insult? AI's problem was his size. It meant he had to work incredibly hard and take a huge number of shots to get his points. Carmelo scores so much easier than AI because he is so much bigger. Plus, he's a good rebounder for a SF. And I think he's a decent defender though he tends to get lazy on that end.

Comparing him to Lebron is stupid. It's like comparing - I dunno - Clyde Drexler to Jordan.

Sorry, you aren't as good as the best player of your generation. Go away, please.

---------- Post added March-15th-2013 at 12:58 PM ----------

Also, he's never been first team All NBA because he plays the same position as Lebron, Durant, Dirk, and Duncan. That's the most crowded position on the ballot.

He wouldn't make first team all NBA on my ballot, because I need to put Lebron and Durant at the forwards for the next 8 years. He could be the third best player in the league and never back all NBA because who #1 and #2 are.

[RonArtest15]

I'm not entirely sure how saying someone is AI with Size is an insult? AI's problem was his size. It meant he had to work incredibly hard and take a huge number of shots to get his points. Carmelo scores so much easier than AI because he is so much bigger. Plus, he's a good rebounder for a SF. And I think he's a decent defender though he tends to get lazy on that end.

Comparing him to Lebron is stupid. It's like comparing - I dunno - Clyde Drexler to Jordan.

Sorry, you aren't as good as the best player of your generation. Go away, please.

---------- Post added March-15th-2013 at 12:58 PM ----------

Also, he's never been first team All NBA because he plays the same position as Lebron, Durant, Dirk, and Duncan. That's the most crowded position on the ballot.

He wouldn't make first team all NBA on my ballot, because I need to put Lebron and Durant at the forwards for the next 8 years. He could be the third best player in the league and never back all NBA because who #1 and #2 are.

A lot of the things Iverson was knocked for, you can use on Melo as well. Iverson had to work (IMO) 10x as hard as Melo to score due to how small he was. My comparison between the two is based strictly off of the negatives of them being knocked for being inefficient shooters at times.

Melo exerts so much energy on the offensive end that it's a head-scratcher as to why he can't put 1/4 of that energy to use on defense. The ability is there...he's done it in spurts. However, he's ridiculously inconsistent on defense. I just would never use the word "complete" to describe Melo's game.

In today's NBA...Lebron = complete. KD = ALMOST there (still needs work on defense).

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

In today's NBA...Lebron = complete. KD = ALMOST there (still needs work on defense).

I just think this is an unfair comparison. You are talking about someone who has the chance to retire as the greatest player of all time and another guy who might end up one of the greatest scorers of all time. Lebron is already there and KD will probably end up one of the ten or so best ever.

I agree that Melo is not as good as them and, frankly, never will be. I think Larry Bird would be trapped on the Second Team All NBA if he played with those two dudes.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

that's such an unfair argument guys damn.

LeBron is not human.
That's like comparing Batman to Superman on terms of power

---------- Post added March-15th-2013 at 02:59 PM ----------

90+% of EVERY team in the last 20 years would KILL to have Melo on their squad.

That he's not leader argument is getting old in general. Melo can win a ring this year (and all will be forgotten) and I promise everyone will turn their sights on Durant and Rose next

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

That he's not leader argument is getting old in general. Melo can win a ring this year (and all will be forgotten) and I promise everyone will turn their sights on Durant and Rose next

I think Durant has a built-in protection that most superstars don't have. When OKC loses, it is always always always Westbrook's fault. Durant could not win a title for five more years and never get the blame.

Rose is already getting the "not a leader/not a winner" stuff because he's not comfortable playing on a surgically repaired knee ten nine months after surgery.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I think Durant has a built-in protection that most superstars don't have. When OKC loses, it is always always always Westbrook's fault. Durant could not win a title for five more years and never get the blame.

Rose is already getting the "not a leader/not a winner" stuff because he's not comfortable playing on a surgically repaired knee ten nine months after surgery.

yeah, you're right on the KD part.

Rose-wise, i don't know how to feel about him at the moment.

But here's a question for everyone: Do you only get the winner/leader label if you win a title?

Is Karl Malone a winner? Is Barkley? Is Marino a leader?

[I_Bleed_B&G]

This Dunk was great.