ESPN: NFL issues conduct warning to all 32 teams.

[JoeSkins]

And part time? These guys put in 25-30 hours a week preparing, watching videos, making sure they know the rules, etc.

25-30 hours per week for half a year is part-time by any employer's definition.

---------- Post added September-21st-2012 at 09:44 AM ----------

Also this is heavily misinformed. The NFL is trying to TAKE AWAY the refs pension that was already in place to fall in line with the rest of the league. You can't just take away a pension employees were counting on for years. The refs even said they were willing to grandfather the old refs into the existing pension and have the newly hired refs under the new pension rules and the NFL said no.

It seems that anyone who is on the NFL's side on this is heavily misinformed.

I think people forget sometimes that the refs are locked out and not on strike.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Also this is heavily misinformed. The NFL is trying to TAKE AWAY the refs pension that was already in place to fall in line with the rest of the league. You can't just take away a pension employees were counting on for years. The refs even said they were willing to grandfather the old refs into the existing pension and have the newly hired refs under the new pension rules and the NFL said no.

It seems that anyone who is on the NFL's side on this is heavily misinformed.

Saved me some typing with this post. The refs have been pretty reasonable in all this, Goodell & Co. just don't want to budge despite the huge impact this is having on the product.

[NLC1054]

I think people forget sometimes that the refs are locked out and not on strike.

I think people don't know the difference, and the NFL does a great job making sure people don't know the difference.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

I don't know guys. I thin the NFL WANTS them to be full time. They WANT to pay them pension because they WANT them to be full time employees who work year round training and studying and going to mini camps. The refs are completely against this because they have real, day jobs, many of which pay much better than the NFL ever after a hefty raise. Thus, the NFL wants to take pension away.

I don't see anything wrong with that. Either you come work for me full time and earn every last drop of those benefits or I take them away. I wouldn't stand for a deal in which my employees working 25-30 hours a week for 5 months a year were gaining crazy 401k benefits or anything like that. I would either tell them we need to renegotiate and that had to go, or I would be looking for replacements.


I just don't think this is as simple as "quit *****ing and pay them". The NFL wants full time refs who do this professionally and can be held accountable and the refs are having none of it.

[Destino]

So they should just give the refs whatever they want? That's not good business.

It's their problem to solve and they can give the refs what they are asking or train/hire more competent refs than the clowns they've trotted out there thus far. I personally don't think it's good business to put out a the worst officiated professional sport I've ever seen.

[HailToTheRedskins14]

I don't know guys. I thin the NFL WANTS them to be full time. They WANT to pay them pension because they WANT them to be full time employees who work year round training and studying and going to mini camps. The refs are completely against this because they have real, day jobs, many of which pay much better than the NFL ever after a hefty raise. Thus, the NFL wants to take pension away.

I read somewhere the refs make 5K a game. For the regular season only, that's 80K in 16 weeks. Add in playoffs, and they're sitting pretty. I'm not saying they're underpaid or overpaid, I don't know/care. But I could live pretty good making 80K for a 16-week job.

[Leonard Washington]

This is not the NFL's fault. The NFL has offered a very nice pay raise to the officials and they have turned it down. The ball is in their court and they are the ones to blame right now. They want a pension in the new agreement, which in my opinion is ridiculous. You think part time officials deserve a pension!?

If you're 45-50 years old and you're at risk for getting trampled by 22 men, then yea you need a pension.

[Hitman21ST]

If you're 45-50 years old and you're at risk for getting trampled by 22 men, then yea you need a pension.

They already have a pension, with their other (full-time) job. The NFL is saying that since they're not full-time NFL employees, they don't need full-time benefits, such as a pension.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

They already have a pension, with their other (full-time) job. The NFL is saying that since they're not full-time NFL employees, they don't need full-time benefits, such as a pension.

Agreed. Imagine if you're a 50 year old dude. You're a lawyer. You also do small, part time work for someone else because it's something you love. Maybe you work 8 hours a week for a local photographer because you just love doing layout and image revamping and such.

Well, if that photographer sells to a new guy, or gets new management, the new guy is going to have some questions. You work 8 hours a week, why was the last guy giving you a pension? Why was the last guy paying you benefits. Sure, your job is detrimental to your carpal tunnel and your eye sight, but no one is forcing you to take the extra gig. Either you lose the pension, or you quit your day job and come work for them full time. They aren't going to pay you pension and benefits for something you do on your free time, part time, half the year, on top of the expenses they already pay to fly you out to all of the shoots you do with the photographer.

I personally think that the NFL's best solution is to just make it through the year. If you make it through the year then you can hire true, full time NFL refs. They won't be a s good, but you have an entire, true offseason to train them and pretty soon those old guys will be having to make a tough decision. Either quit their day jobs or lose their hobby. The NFL will gladly welcome back the ones who'd like to come aboard full time.

I just feel that these guys all took the gig as a hobby. They had real jobs, but they liked to ref as a hobby. But the NFL is WAY TOO BIG to have that anymore. Either you come on board full time, or you go ref college ball where they don't need such a large commitment. THe NFL has grown beyond the point of having lawyers ref it on their off time.

[Leonard Washington]

I partially disagree with both of you.

I'm ok with full-time refs. I think it would improve the quality of the game and probably get younger refs on the field that can see and run with these pro-bowlers.

I'm ok with 401k plans for the new hires. If the new hires feel the 401k is fair, then everything is great. If not the NFL will have to adjust. Taking away pensions for the vested refs is wrong. It's not like the NFL is hurting for $.

I don't think the hobby part of it doesn't matter. I enjoy my profession but I also want to be compensated at the highest possible level. Even my hobby of designing and building bioreactors, I still charge as much as possible.

[Hitman21ST]

I partially disagree with both of you.

I'm ok with full-time refs. I think it would improve the quality of the game and probably get younger refs on the field that can see and run with these pro-bowlers.

I'm ok with 401k plans for the new hires. If the new hires feel the 401k is fair, then everything is great. If not the NFL will have to adjust. Taking away pensions for the vested refs is wrong. It's not like the NFL is hurting for $.

I don't think the hobby part of it doesn't matter. I enjoy my profession but I also want to be compensated at the highest possible level. Even my hobby of designing and building bioreactors, I still charge as much as possible.

I'm not mad that they're getting paid the way they are, but if they want the pensions, then they need to be full time. If they don't want to be full time with the NFL, then they don't need the pension benefits. They can keep the salary.

[Son of Gadsden]

If you're 45-50 years old and you're at risk for getting trampled by 22 men, then yea you need a pension.

Agreed with the other guy. If you aren't full time, you don't get full time benefits. I'm not opposed to full time refs, in fact I think it should happen. However, if you're not full time, a pension is ridiculous. How many refs have been trampled? Injuries to refs are very rare, and I'm sure they are covered under insurance plans. There is no long term reason for them to deserve a pension. They get handsomely paid for their help, and if they don't like it, let's kick em out and get some new refs.

I'll say I was on the owners side for the player lockout, but have since changed my mind. The owners are definitely mostly a bunch of greedy folks, but I've never been into the class war thing, and this situation is very different from that one.

[ptr77]

I'm definitely on the NFL's side with the refs.

I don't care what umpires, or other refs make. These refs work 4 preseason games, 16 regular season games and 4 playoffs games max. So that would require them to work games 24 weeks of the year. I will add in the bye week and the superbowl week and make it 26. So that is exactly half the year they are working. And I bet they put in a full 40 hours during those weeks. So they are part time employees.

When was the last time a part time employee had a defined benefit pension??? Defined benefit pensions are unstable to begin with, why would a part timer get one?


The NFL is looking to freeze the pension, not do away with them.
The NFL wants to add 3 more crews.
The NFL wants 7 full time refs to train others and scout for refs. The union is very opposed to this.
The NFL is offering raises in game fees, travel expenses, and meeting fees.
An experienced ref could earn $200,000 a year in 2018
Average pay would be $186,000 by 2016


Personally I would like to see the NFL add a serious fitness test to the table for all referees and add much more full-time refs than 7. I would like at least 3 full crews dedicated to NFL reffing and improving their craft year round. Ed Hocculi can go back to being a lawyer for all I care. If this doesn't get settled this year I think you will see the NFL keep their plan as it stands and the old referees will be screwed. And that is fine by me.

[Brotherz]

This is not the NFL's fault. The NFL has offered a very nice pay raise to the officials and they have turned it down. The ball is in their court and they are the ones to blame right now. They want a pension in the new agreement, which in my opinion is ridiculous. You think part time officials deserve a pension!?

Just for the record they don't want a pension - they want to KEEP the pension THEY ALREADY HAVE.

[ptr77]

Just for the record they don't want a pension - they want to KEEP the pension THEY ALREADY HAVE.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/20...ement-benefits

The league wants to go from defined-benefit pension (unsustainable and being phased out in all industries).

To:

Defined-contribution pension.