they do not fight 15 years anymore for instance. A guy like Sugar Ray Robinson would fight every other week for instance.
---------- Post added September-24th-2012 at 08:03 PM ----------
---------- Post added September-24th-2012 at 08:04 PM ----------
Tyson was a brawler, he had horrible boxing technique. He was incredibly powerful & could kill a moose if he hit him right, but his technique was just awful. He was a street fighter at heart.
I watched Tyson his whole career. He was in the sport of Boxing, but he was not a "boxer" perse, he was a brawler.
But I'm sure you have a rebutal for this argument.
---------- Post added September-24th-2012 at 08:34 PM ----------
But he was undisciplined & easily rattled. He wasn't going to outbox you, he was going to kill you. He was going to knock you out, period. He had no contingency plan if it didn't turn out that way. It never crossed his mind that he wasn't going to knock you out. So, he never planned to go the distance with anyone. It was just, "I'm gonna knock this guy out, end of story."
Lets start with the guy that actually did beat an "in his prime",Tyson - Holyfield. Others that were clearly superior and would have easily have defeated Tyson (in his prime) are Jack Johnson, Joe Louis, George Foreman (Tyson was afraid to fight him),Jack Dempsey, Ezzard Charles, Rocky Marciano, Lennox Lewis, Larry Holmes, Gene Tunney, Etc Etc.
Good Grief He lost to Douglas when he was 24 for gosh sake - Buster Dougles!!!! If one was a Good Boxer who could take a punch Tyson was in trouble.
Just google top 10 lists and post the one that has Tyson ranked the highest. You might find a few that he is actually on (Most won't have him ranked) but I bet you will be very hard pressed to find any where he is in the top 5 (wouldn't surprise me if you could find none).
So Ali versus Tyson?? That is a joke.
Last edited by nonniey; September-24th-2012 at 09:25 PM.
Back in Tyson's prime, I was talking regularly with local (H Street) boxing trainer James Peters, who'd been a welterweight prize fighter in the 50's himself.
Naturally, we got around to talking about Tyson, and I mentioned how he reminded me of Joe Frazier. "He's faster though," said J.P., and so I asked him how he thought Tyson would fare against Ali.
"Oh, Ali would knock him out," he said, as though it was as plain as day. Even in Tyson's prime, James had him pegged as a weak-minded fighter, and said a guy like that would never beat a brilliant ring tactician like Ali.
It was only later that I understood what JP was talking about. Ali beats Tyson for all the reasons outlined in this thread: A young Ali out-moves (and frustrates) Tyson, and an old Ali out-Holyfields him. Never mind his speed, Ali's accuracy is unparalleled, and he combined it with decent power.
None of this is to say that Tyson was not a great fighter in his day. Most experts rate him anywhere from #8 to #15 all-time, and for an apt summary of how he compared against the other great heavyweights, check out Monte Cox's (who rates Tyson higher than almost anyone else does) excellent insights here.
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For me, a guy like Arturo Gatti was a brawler. Brawlers just want to be physical, push you around, punch, and dont worry about defensive technique. I say that not to say Tyson was a pure boxer, but he didnt want to go into slugfests either which brawlers do bceaues they cannot fight any other way.
But was a limited boxer? hell yea. Thats why I said he is overrated as a boxer and HW. I honestly believe Vitali Klitchsko would beat him, and Wladamir could beat him if he had the heart. I think they would beat Tyson easily. I also have a lot of concern about Tyson's heart and toughness.
In saying that, Tyson won a many fights going past the 6th round, I dont know where that myth came from.
With Lewis's reach and power, he would have given anybody problems, including Ali. That would have been a very intriguing match.
Lewis' reach and power were no longer or stronger than a young Forman's. Ali took Forman's very best (rope-a-dope) and then knocked him out. Lewis had a better jab than Forman but a weaker chin. I'm not sure Lennox would have beaten a young Larry Holmes, who is greatly underrated.
Tyson never fought a quality fighter in his entire career. When he came up the heavy weight division was a wasteland. Tyson fought a series of gang bangers, and wind up toys, and egg timers practiced to fall down after a minnute... Mitch Blood Green? Please, Marvus Frasier? Who did these guys ever fight? Seriously who did they fight before Tyson? Who did they fight after Tyson.. Nobody... They were invented by HBO in order to give Tyson something/someone to knock over.
Don't get me wrong, I loved Tyson. I remember going over to my buddies house ho had cable TV in the 80's and waiting around for the main event for hours only to see tyson kill his opponent in 20-30 seconds into the first round....
But to put him against Ali who was the Greatest of all time, whom I also saw fight is rediculous. To put them in perspective... Ali who was not in his prime, fought George Forman in his prime and crushed him so bad George gave up fighting for a decade. This is the same George Forman who was 45 years old and Tyson was ducking his fight. Tyson would be lucky to beat Larry Holmes in his prime, much less Ali.
Last edited by JMS; September-24th-2012 at 11:22 PM.
Who did he beat past the 6th round? (I honestly don't remember, not being argumentative.)In saying that, Tyson won a many fights going past the 6th round, I dont know where that myth came from.
---------- Post added September-24th-2012 at 10:58 PM ----------
Holyfield was a technically sound and procient fighter, which made him awsome in the 1990's heavyweight division. That allowed him to thrive against talented but rather unfit challengers like Mike Tyson late in his career. Problem is Ali was figthing and defeating real heavyweights who were profient boxers throughout their careers.
---------- Post added September-25th-2012 at 12:06 AM ----------
But his assendency was always geared towards fighting Tyson late in his career. Tyson wouldn't fight the good heavyweights because Don King was afraid he would loose his meal ticket... And frankly Tyson didn't have to fight the best, cause he had more folks following him than the champion cause he was such a name. Holyfield realized Tyson was only taking fighters who were deficient in some way, and being a natural light heavyweight that made him a natural to get accepted to fight Tyson, that's how Holyfield got his shot after coming up 2 weight classes.
Only Holyfield beat him, well kinda ( two hard headbuts by holyfield hurt tyson badly in the first fight, and Tyson disqulified himself in the second )..... After the first fight, it became a grudge match, and holyfield got to fight him again. These two fights were the two most lucrative fights of Holyfields career. Holyfield would have fought him six more times if folks would have paid to see the shell of Tyson disqualify himself or get the fight stopped by the refferee that many more times.
Last edited by JMS; September-24th-2012 at 11:27 PM.
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