Fordranger76's Offensive Line Statistics Thread

[newday]

Thank you! This is awesome.

If you like doing this, you can make some money at it, I think.

Read Moneyball. Collecting stats that are predictive of a game's outcome is highly valuable data. Has been hard in football. But even if this help fantasy leagues, not real games, you might have a cool biz idea. Just a thought...

[gbear]

I remember thinking last year that our OL took a huge step back with the loss of Lichtensteiger, but it looks like he is doing well so far this year. I like it when stats back what I think my eyes are telling me. I can also see why we run left. As bad as Polumbus has been, it looks almost like a system problem. I'm not saying that as a get out of jail free card. It's just between he and Chester, the right side is having a rough time. If I were planning to defend the Skins, I would put pressure on the skins right side of the OL because the odds on both of them being effective isn't high.

When I see two numbers like theirs next to each other, I have a hard time separating out the two players because I wonder if some of the problems aren't caused by miscommunication or clumsy handoff of assignments between the two of them.

[fordranger76]

I remember thinking last year that our OL took a huge step back with the loss of Lichtensteiger, but it looks like he is doing well so far this year. I like it when stats back what I think my eyes are telling me. I can also see why we run left. As bad as Polumbus has been, it looks almost like a system problem. I'm not saying that as a get out of jail free card. It's just between he and Chester, the right side is having a rough time. If I were planning to defend the Skins, I would put pressure on the skins right side of the OL because the odds on both of them being effective isn't high.

When I see two numbers like theirs next to each other, I have a hard time separating out the two players because I wonder if some of the problems aren't caused by miscommunication or clumsy handoff of assignments between the two of them.

From what I have seen the problems on the right side are that Polumbus can hardly ever stick a block at all. Also when the play requires him to do a cut block he has missed the opponent every single time. I am not lying here either. He has not had a cut block work yet this season! When he does engage it isn't long and the lineman against him rips the block to shreds. Even on the good blocks that he has you can tell that another second or two and Polumbus would miss the block. Chester in my opinion is lazy with his blocks. During the course of the game sometimes he can flat out stick a defender and not allow him to get any movement at all. I mean he seriously can nail the guy. But on half of the plays he will play touch with the lineman and what results is the lineman reads the play and blows past him. If Chester would just play with intensity on every play imo he would be one of the better blockers on the team.

[Smoot4Prez]

I like it!

Proves even more how crucial Trent is for our run blocking. It was IMMEDIATELY apparent when he was out of the Bengals game. Not sure we have a great chance of beating anyone without him....

[fordranger76]

Thank you! This is awesome.

If you like doing this, you can make some money at it, I think.

Read Moneyball. Collecting stats that are predictive of a game's outcome is highly valuable data. Has been hard in football. But even if this help fantasy leagues, not real games, you might have a cool biz idea. Just a thought...

I will tell you this. It is very interesting going back and watching the lineman work. I find it to be really fun to be honest. It really makes you appreciate what a good lineman can do for any given play. I can only wish that I could compile meaningful blocking statistics that are a go to guide or something. The amount of effort required though would be insane. I really believe it would be close to a full time job to get it down to an exact science. You can really see who is a fit in the zone blocking scheme for our beloved team. Problem is I honestly believe only two of our guys are a fit haha.

[DC9]

Ford Ranger, can you also do a season average for each and keep that on top? That would be sick! Awesome job and thanks for doing this!

Looks like Polumbus is getting used...

[~*JurgyFan*~]

Great thread! I want to see this each week...thanks a lot!

[darrelgreenie]

I appreciate the effort Fordranger, and I think this thread or chronichle is a great idea.

I'm curious how you break down what is/isn't an effective block in the passing game and the running game.
e.g.-is passing blocking based on how many seconds they sustain their block 3s is a stalemate in the running game considered a good/bad block vs being pushed back or driving their man off the line etc...)
Also, I think you should indicate how often each OL received help from another OL, TE or RB.

Off the top I think your grade for Jordan Black from the Bengal's game was generous.

Good work though-

---------- Post added September-27th-2012 at 11:27 AM ----------

Did you happen to grade the OL out during preseason?
I'm curious how the OL looked then especially: Willie Smith, Tom Compton, Adam Gettis, Hurt, LeRibeus, Poloumbus and Black

[fordranger76]

Ford Ranger, can you also do a season average for each and keep that on top? That would be sick! Awesome job and thanks for doing this!

Looks like Polumbus is getting used...

I will be doing that very shortly.

---------- Post added September-27th-2012 at 12:00 PM ----------

I appreciate the effort Fordranger, and I think this thread or chronichle is a great idea.

I'm curious how you break down what is/isn't an effective block in the passing game and the running game.
e.g.-is passing blocking based on how many seconds they sustain their block 3s is a stalemate in the running game considered a good/bad block vs being pushed back or driving their man off the line etc...)
Also, I think you should indicate how often each OL received help from another OL, TE or RB.



Off the top I think your grade for Jordan Black from the Bengal's game was generous.


Good work though-

---------- Post added September-27th-2012 at 11:27 AM ----------


Did you happen to grade the OL out during preseason?
I'm curious how the OL looked then especially: Willie Smith, Tom Compton, Adam Gettis, Hurt, LeRibeus, Poloumbus and Black

The best way I can tell you how I grade is how the lineman keeps a man contained. In other words if he keeps the man out of the play via a solid block, a chop, or out positioning I will give him credit for a solid block. If the play breaks down due to a receiver not getting open I will not fault the blocker. For a missed block it can be a number of things. If the lineman gets pushed back into the backfield and causes the running back to adjust or the Quarterback to escape they will get a negative. Also whiffs and lack of effort which results in a defender getting loose will result in a negative. During the running plays you can tell when a lineman gets out muscled and after watching it for a while I can pick up who is getting beat on a block. The running game blocks tend to be lower because of the amount of stops that tend to happen at the line of scrimmage. The hole will get close or too much penetration. Being that I am watching each individual lineman I can pick up who caused the breakdown. As for the help that the lineman get it isn't as much as one may think. The tight ends usually will be one on one with a block believe it or not. The running backs will pick up a blitzer. For some reason I havent seen the Skins do much double teaming with the backs and tight ends. You will see the guards helping with the center and visa versa but I believe this is do to scheme more than anything. As far as Jordan Black is concerned I just called it as it happened. The problem with Black was when he got beat he got beat BAD. As in if a 5 year old was out there bad. That is why it was so easy to point the finger at Black. He struggled much more in the running game than the passing game but you have to remember a lot of passes are out of RG3's hand very quickly. This kind of thing can be subjective after all and I do my best to give credit to a lineman when its due. I did a little bit of watching the line in the preseason. It was hard to see what was going on though because the pre season camera crew was horrible. The camera was panned so far out that you were lucky to even get a glimpse of the number on the jersey and they missed some plays completely.

[DogofWar1]

One thing that would be interesting would be to see who players are lined up against as well. Polumbus might be getting used, but if he's lined up across from Chris Long, you almost have to accept it. Meanwhile, if, hypothetically, Williams is lined up against some no-name and gets beat, it looks far worse.

Basically, some way to differentiate between the level of player they're up against would be cool. I'd say that 75% pass blocking against a Chris Long-like player is better than 85% against some nobody.

But don't worry if you can't get those stats, it's probably a lot of information to sift through.

[Alcoholic Zebra]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Montgomery viewed as a sub-par run blocker last season. When/how did he improve so much this season?

[PortisBetts]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Montgomery viewed as a sub-par run blocker last season. When/how did he improve so much this season?

Montgomery has been the best player on the line hands down sans Trent. He has been awfully impressive holding his ground and making good blocks and calls. Last season, he was pushed around a lot more and you are right, wasnt a very good run blocker. He is one of the players that a full offseason has really impacted his play in a positive way.

[DogofWar1]

Montgomery has been the best player on the line hands down sans Trent. He has been awfully impressive holding his ground and making good blocks and calls. Last season, he was pushed around a lot more and you are right, wasnt a very good run blocker. He is one of the players that a full offseason has really impacted his play in a positive way.

Yeah, Montgomery has been quietly playing pretty well. Graz has put him on his all-NFC east team for the past couple weeks, which I think shows that he's not too terrible, Graz usually doesn't mince words too much when talking about players.

[skinfan57]

Thanks - great thread! I'll be checking it each week. Like most fans I just watch the performance of the line as a whole. It's great to have these individualized stats.

[darrelgreenie]

The best way I can tell you how I grade is how the lineman keeps a man contained. In other words if he keeps the man out of the play via a solid block, a chop, or out positioning I will give him credit for a solid block. If the play breaks down due to a receiver not getting open I will not fault the blocker.

If you don't mind my 2 cents.

So do you consider a stalemate at the POA win or a push?
How do you grade second level blocks or movement blocks?

I think mixing the pass protection grade to passing game is a slippery slope.
Imho I think having a set time standard for pass protection based on depth of the QB drop would be a less subjective measure.
e.g.-a 3 step drop vs 5 step drop vs 7 step drop.
then have a set length of time for each drop depth.
So if a OL sustained a block for enough time based on the depth of drop it doesn't matter what the receivers were doing and conversely if a WR is open after 4 seconds but the QB took a 5 step drop its not really their fault if the QB hasn't gotten rid of the ball.

As for the help that the lineman get it isn't as much as one may think. The tight ends usually will be one on one with a block believe it or not. The running backs will pick up a blitzer. For some reason I havent seen the Skins do much double teaming with the backs and tight ends. You will see the guards helping with the center and visa versa but I believe this is do to scheme more than anything.

I'm not sure I agree with this.
This scheme both in the run and in the pass game has a lot of combination and help blocks.
In the run game its not uncommon to have a double team at the POA followed by a peel off to the second level.
If you take Jordan Black for example he got a lot of help.
Sometimes they had Davis/Paulsen actually block the end while Black would double w/ Kory on the DT.
Sometime the TE and OT take the DE together.

Either way, you're doing a solid by doing this task.
I know it can be tedious and for that I thank you.

-Hail