Christian humility vs. American exceptionalism

[twa]

You're half right.

You are wrong, but perhaps pride is in your way

[Predicto]

You're half right.

He's half witty too.

[Prosperity]

This is the result of a conversation that I over heard today.

I was wondering how Christians balance (or not balance) or reconcile any beliefs they have w/ respect to American Exceptionalism with the concepts of Christian humility.

Are they completely compatible, completely incompatible, somewhere in between?

For the non-Christians out there, can you comment on what you think about when you hear people go back and forth between the importance of Christian values and then issues about American exceptionalism? Feel free to include any ideas related to humility in general (Christian or not) and American Exceptionalism.

I think the idea that America is uniquely positioned to bring positive change to the world is compatible with Christianity

But the more American exceptionalism equates with innate superiority, then the more it seems like prideful and arrogant, which is not really compatible with Christianity

[No_Pressure]

Sounds like what you're describing is Christendom.

I wasn't aware that god cared about the human invention of nations, so if one is truly being Christian they need to view everything they see through the lens of god's creation, which is mankind rather than the United States. That means that if god wouldn't give preference to his devout creations in one human constructed nation, we shouldn't either. Pride in the constructions of man is folly according to the teachings of Christ.

[alexey]

You think that the creator of the universe loves you and cares about you. You claim to have a special relationship with God. You think that the univese was created with you in mind. What humility are you talking about?

[Prosperity]

You think that the creator of the universe loves you and cares about you. You claim to have a special relationship with God. You think that the univese was created with you in mind. What humility are you talking about?

Oh, you!

[PeterMP]

You think that the creator of the universe loves you and cares about you. You claim to have a special relationship with God. You think that the univese was created with you in mind. What humility are you talking about?

Same as the other thread I created, if you think you have something directly relevant to the topic, feel free to post. Otherwise nobody is forcing you participate.

And I'd appreciate it if you didn't derail every thread into a conversation about your problems with people that believe in God.

thanks

[twa]

You think that the creator of the universe loves you and cares about you. You claim to have a special relationship with God. You think that the univese was created with you in mind. What humility are you talking about?

a popular saying here is No Brag,just Facts

of course we aren't noted for humility

[Zguy28]

I wasn't aware that god cared about the human invention of nations,

God ordains the creation of nations.

so if one is truly being Christian they need to view everything they see through the lens of god's creation, which is mankind rather than the United States.

Yes, a brotherhood of God's people from all nations. However, God also instructs to be good citizens of a country unless that "good citizenship" would be to actively deny God or the Gospel.

That means that if god wouldn't give preference to his devout creations in one human constructed nation, we shouldn't either. Pride in the constructions of man is folly according to the teachings of Christ.

Ever read Blessing of the Bombs?

[DjTj]

You think that the creator of the universe loves you and cares about you. You claim to have a special relationship with God. You think that the univese was created with you in mind. What humility are you talking about?

I believe that my parents love me and care about me. I have a special relationship with them. I believe they have lived their lives with me in mind. Does that prevent me from being humble?

Is being loved incompatible with humility?

[Zguy28]

I believe that my parents love me and care about me. I have a special relationship with them. I believe they have lived their lives with me in mind. Does that prevent me from being humble?

Is being loved incompatible with humility?

You hit it right on the head DJ.

Jesus taught:

9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed[a] thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

[PeterMP]

I think Christian humility is being misapplied,putting your candle under a bushel is not humility.(be it Christianity or freedoms)

Balance and individual application of humility is best.

Who said anything about hiding a light?

I come from a school of thought if you are exceptional people will notice. If you have to call yourself exceptional, then you probably aren't that exceptional.

If your light is bright, people will notice. If you have to wave your light around and yell, 'Look how bright my light is.', your light probably isn't all that bright.

[Jumbo]

Same as the other thread I created, if you think you have something directly relevant to the topic, feel free to post. Otherwise nobody is forcing you participate.

And I'd appreciate it if you didn't derail every thread into a conversation about your problems with people that believe in God.

thanks

You're getting a bit personal again, PeterMP, and I'd "appreciate" it if you let moderators moderate. It's a relevant enough comment (at this point), from a moderator's view. Especially given more OT ones that will be made in here that aren't going to be complained about, and given how much rein in going OT people get as a matter of course in any tailgate thread before moderators step in (which I will and do). And the OP invited non-believers in, specifically (not that an invite was needed). I was thinking of actively participating in this thread, but may refrain for a bit after this post.

Having said that: alexy and Peter MP---best if you two keep very on point about the OP from here on in for the rest of this thread. I am going to support the OP's desire to keep this thread on track.

And while the term "Christian humility" certainly invites comments like alexy's (say, as opposed, to using "the principle of humility") I think involving the aspect of the glaring and common hypocrisy of Christians (in particular given the topic title since hubris is a common human trait) often being quite full of hubris is germane to the matter-----outside of alexy and PeterMP avoiding doing it.

Whether an individual agrees with the claims or not, we are often told by many (and it is so believed by many) we are primarily a "Christian nation" built on "Christian principles." Yet arrogance and hubris (just as compassion and charity) are arguably among our hallmarks. These are all relevant aspects of the topic as introduced.

However, even if others explore such, I don't want PeterMP and alexy to turn this into just another one of their long ongoing dances again and that's why they need to avoid any particular mutually-extended tangents. We already have enough of those this month.

I will say that in my many years of working with programs like Alcoholics Anonymous, I often found their saying "humility is the spiritual foundation of all our principles" to be a personal favorite (along with "attraction rather than promotion" regarding drawing people to their way).

I do admire humility beyond most traits and hold it as a high ideal among principles to try to live by.

Per the topic specifically as titled, I think "humility"---whether you stick "Christian" or "Buddhist" or nothing in front of it---but I do see a point in specifically using "Christian" there if one is so moved---as a principle is at serious odds with most forms that "American Exceptionalism" takes.

I have never been much of a fan of "AmEx thinking" as usually manifested (especially politically). You can appreciate and hold in high value and advocate your system without bandying it or your people about with an air of national or cultural superiority, as is often the case. I also think it's more strategically socially effective not to be that way, whether as an individual or as a nation.

BTW---I also do not need for either PeterMP or alexy (I like you both) to reply to the "mod aspects" of this post.

BTW 2--twa, as I think you remember, I am on record as having been a big "Guns of Will Sonnet" fan and used that line a lot growing up lol

[twa]

If your light is bright, people will notice..

not if you hold it close or are ashamed of it

I agree with you on excess, but part of a bright national light(or a
Christian one) is making sure the light is bright and unobstructed.

is it wrong to hold your light up to give light to the path?

[Jumbo]

Who said anything about hiding a light?

I come from a school of thought if you are exceptional people will notice. If you have to call yourself exceptional, then you probably aren't that exceptional.

If your light is bright, people will notice. If you have to wave your light around and yell, 'Look how bright my light is.', your light probably isn't all that bright.

I agree with you, while allowing for (hopefully only occasionally) failing to meet the standard. But this is my basic attitude, too. One of my fave things about TB and Burg, is that they rarely fall into the arguing trap of ego and "psyche needs" interfering with humility here (a difficult task). Your comment is again, reminding me of "attraction rather than promotion.'

---------- Post added September-25th-2012 at 04:25 PM ----------

not if you hold it close or are ashamed of it

I agree with you on excess, but part of a bright national light(or a
Christian one) is making sure the light is bright and unobstructed.

is it wrong to hold your light up to give light to the path?

Big gap between what you describe and most common forms of posturing that AmEx takes, especially in the right wing side of our political dodo bird.