Christian humility vs. American exceptionalism

[twa]

Big gap between what you describe and most common forms of posturing that AmEx takes, especially in the right wing side of our political dodo bird.

agreed... and the posturing Christianity often takes as well..goes back to balanced

[Jumbo]

agreed... and the posturing Christianity often takes as well..goes back to balanced

Just as the left wing side can exaggerate (especially in past decades) in a manner akin to "national self-loathing" and some Muslims suggest in using the term "infidel" and looking down their nose at "hedonistic" western cultures (being fair and balanced , which for me is much harder than being fine and dandy ).

[Burgold]

Strangely, I was wondering about this last week and debated on starting a thread about it. Is the notion of American Exceptionalism akin to the deadly sin of pride?

I think it may be.

[Jumbo]

Strangely, I was wondering about this last week and debated on starting a thread about it. Is the notion of American Exceptionalism akin to the deadly sin of pride?

I think it may be.

It's a line of thought I've presented for several decades (in varying degrees of strength in argument)...well, going back to Vietnam anyway

[Burgold]

It's a line of thought I've presented for several decades (in varying degrees of strength in argument)...well, going back to Vietnam anyway

Yeah, it's something I've wondered about too, much like how many of the "sins" are also very adaptive in some circumstances. Pride can be a very good thing. Sloth is necessary because you need time to digest, think, etc.

[Jumbo]

Yeah, it's something I've wondered about too, much like how many of the "sins" are also very adaptive in some circumstances. Pride can be a very good thing. Sloth is necessary because you need time to digest, think, etc.

I frequently use this kind of framing when it comes to traits, characteristics, ideals, principles, etc.:

"We all have our assets and liabilities. They not only change in type and intensity within each category over time, they also will switch categories at different times and in different situations."


This is where the pain in the ass reality of the importance of competent judgment comes into play.

Pride and belief in the merits of our ways can be part of a very helpful outcome, or part of a very unhelpful one. Any form of self-serving pride is rarely (if ever) necessary, so it's more of a gamble (at best) to make it part of an action. It is harder for me to find examples of where humility is ever unhelpful. Humility is not docility and certainly not weakness, both of which are often quite unhelpful.

[AsburySkinsFan]

You think that the creator of the universe loves you and cares about you. You claim to have a special relationship with God. You think that the univese was created with you in mind. What humility are you talking about?

That is a beautiful strawman, but then with all of the other hollow characterizations of Christianity you deal in it really isn't surprising.

[zoony]

Every successful and prosperous country is guilty of exceptionalism. If you don't think so, you are ignorant.

However, very few countries have the means to export their nationalism. Which is, in a sense, exceptional. Deal with it

[No_Pressure]

God ordains the creation of nations.

Yes, a brotherhood of God's people from all nations. However, God also instructs to be good citizens of a country unless that "good citizenship" would be to actively deny God or the Gospel.

Ever read Blessing of the Bombs?

God also instructs his followers to not do a whole number of things that a state might ask and certainly has in the past asked its people to do, oftentimes (though of course not specifically in the case of the United States...at least in an official capacity) in the name of god, even though the act itself is a contradiction of the ground rules god has laid out for us. Like, you know, killing other human beings for example.

On a less serious note, participating in capitalism doesn't really groove with Jesus' teachings. It isn't explicitly forbidden but the collection of earthly material wealth is strongly discouraged. It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get into heaven, and yet this nation's entire economic system is based upon the concept of accumulating as much material wealth for one's self as is possible.

The idea of exceptionalism- the idea that we are as a group of people better than somebody else by virtue of being born here and all of the super cool things we've accomplished as a people is not something that Jesus would applaud. He would remind us that we're putting ourselves before others, holding ourselves in a prideful manner, looking down upon our fellow man- even if it is just a tiny feeling of superiority. These are not things which Christians are supposed to think about themselves. God may have "ordained" the creation of nations or whatever, but he doesn't in the same sentence say it's alright to feel nationalistic pride about some nation that god put you into.

Imposing those values on others, especially by means which are sinful in the eyes of god isn't supposed to be acceptable for Christianity.

[PeterMP]

not if you hold it close or are ashamed of it

I agree with you on excess, but part of a bright national light(or a
Christian one) is making sure the light is bright and unobstructed.

is it wrong to hold your light up to give light to the path?

I think there are many people out there to quick to mistake humility with being ashamed.

[twa]

I think there are many people out there to quick to mistake humility with being ashamed.

I think many are ashamed of the concept of exceptionalism and use humility as a crutch

then you have those like the poster above that define exceptionalism in a manner I do not recognize ...it is not who you are or accomplishments,but rather freedoms and ideas that result from them (and even the arguments that freely flow from them) that make us a exception as a nation

[Zguy28]

I think it depends on your motive and how you approach it honestly. Let me take a chapter from the church with regards to evangelism (because that's basically what AE is). The idea driving evangelism is gratefulness for God's grace and mercy. It's a wonderful thing, and it is good to want others to know it as well.

But the approach can make it disastrous. When missionaries from one culture go to another, a lot of times they continue to try to live as if they were still in their home culture. This is a bad approach since they don't and can't relate to the culture they went to. Now don't misunderstand, this was an example with application to church missions, so there is no direct 1 to 1 connection. However, the idea remains, a bad approach gets you nowhere fast and ticks off the natives.

[Koolblue13]

Christians and Americans both feel better than everybody else and treat the rest of the world as their own.

---------- Post added September-26th-2012 at 06:24 AM ----------

Strangely, I was wondering about this last week and debated on starting a thread about it. Is the notion of American Exceptionalism akin to the deadly sin of pride?

I think it may be.

I would say yes it is.

Although, I would also ask if nationalism isn't just a more accepted for of racism or sexism. It's certainly as useful.

[stevemcqueen1]

The idea that as Americans our way of life is better than every one else's and that we should spread our way of doing things so people will be more like us. It is a profoundly arrogant form of nationalism.

It goes further than that. There is this belief within it that Americans are sort of a chosen people for a higher will.

Regarding the OP, don't ask me. I'm a Nietzschean Multiculturalist .

[Corcaigh]

For both you could ask whether there is more myth than reality.

Many Christians are anything but humble. Those touting American Exceptionalism often reassure themselves by comparing the USA to broken third-world economies. America is sometimes the shining city on a hill but it's also often on the side of darkness as the history of intervention in South America shows clearly. America will act strictly in its own political interest when it suits, and not based on altruism or any grand mission of spreading liberty. The USA is the greatest country on the planet, but is not endowed with any special mission.

Through history, anyone proclaiming to be on a mission from God, (Jake and Elwood excepted of course), is not to be trusted.