Does Rob Jackson make Orakpo expendable?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

So after one good game for Rob, we're already considering ditching the best pure edge rusher we have on this team? (I love Kerrigan, and think he's a far more consistent overall player than Orakpo. But he's not the pure rush threat Brian is.).

I'ma be kind and say this should be filed under 'not all thoughts should be posts.'

Hail.

*Edit* And I know you stated yopu'd been considering this for a while. But it's come to fruition off Jackson's performance this past Sunday.

[Chris 44]

Be interesting to see the current personnel in a 4-3. A front four with Kerrigan and Orakpo with their hands in the dirt, with Bowen and Cofield in the middle. Riley, Fletcher and Jackson as the three linebackers.

[KingGibbs]

So after one good game for Rob, we're already considering ditching the best pure edge rusher we have on this team? (I love Kerrigan, and think he's a far more consistent overall player than Orakpo. But he's not the pure rush threat Brian is.).

I'ma be kind and say this should be filed under 'not all thoughts should be posts.'

Hail.

*Edit* And I know you stated yopu'd been considering this for a while. But it's come to fruition off Jackson's performance this past Sunday.

I hope you realize that some of us in this thread love Jackson, but realize we need to see more before passing judgement.

[superozman]

I think this needs context.. because the numbers suggest that he's top-tier. But i think the difference is in determining "when" in the game those plays are made. How many times can we recall where Rak has made a game changing or game ending sack or FF? Not saying that he doesn't possess the talent or the work ethic to become that. But the players above, IMO, are in another class.

Every sack is important in the NFL. How can you state this when you don't know when those 6 players sacks were, and when Rak's were?

[authentic]

So after one good game for Rob, we're already considering ditching the best pure edge rusher we have on this team? (I love Kerrigan, and think he's a far more consistent overall player than Orakpo. But he's not the pure rush threat Brian is.).

I'ma be kind and say this should be filed under 'not all thoughts should be posts.'

Hail.

*Edit* And I know you stated yopu'd been considering this for a while. But it's come to fruition off Jackson's performance this past Sunday.

-I think there's a growing consensus (even since last season), that Kerrigan may be a better all around player than Rak.

-I wouldn't say come to fruition. But the intrigue is growing.. I haven't come to anything definitive regarding Rak or Jackson. Like i said, I think we should explore our options with Rak in the offseason. Thats all.

---------- Post added September-26th-2012 at 08:46 AM ----------

Every sack is important in the NFL. How can you state this when you don't know when those 6 players sacks were, and when Rak's were?

We all watch the games, don't we? its pretty easy to determine, based on observation that, so far in Rak's career that he hasn't made any game changing or game ending plays... Certainly not at the volume or consistency as the top tier pass rushers.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

-I think there's a growing consensus (even since last season), that Kerrigan may be a better all around player than Rak.

-I wouldn't say come to fruition. But the intrigue is growing.. I haven't come to anything definitive regarding Rak or Jackson. Like i said, I think we should explore our options with Rak in the offseason. Thats all.

I don't get why you'd want to even consider exploring ditching a guy, who when all said and done is your best pure rusher; and who'll still only be 27 next year; to only weaken us further as we try strengthen in other areas.

I'd give this more credence if we didn't have so many other holes still to fill and good replace Orakpo with a similar player. Even given his trade value, that high pick would have to be used elsewhere; and we'd be just robbing Peter to pay Paul. Strengthening one area and weakening another.

Hail.

[Laxpunk2006]

Lax. Those stats are nice, but there is more to it then just sacks. There's QB pressures, QB hits, run defense, dropping in covereage. I've never been a stat guy.

Well there's this:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...dge-rushers-2/

I would classify that as elite ranking. Consider this is the last three season's, not Orakpo's first three vs. each of these players first three. Considering many of these players have gotten better with experience he compares very favorably.

Here's 2011 alone:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...-edge-rushers/

How often do Ware or Suggs drop into coverage? Not often. Without a metric it is difficult to compare that.

While you may not be a stat guy I think it would be useful to bring actual data to the conversation rather than biased observations (on both sides of the argument).

The same source (PFF) also considers Orakpo to be a protoype 3-4 OLB.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...s-linebackers/

Numbers and stats may not tell the whole story but they do give a big chunk of it. Within that chunk Orakpo fares well.

[G1]

They're trying to build depth. We have some nice depth at OLB. Why screw with that.

To be honest, I don't care if Jackson makes the pro bowl this year. keep them both. Let's build some quality depth.

[The Slamming Butcher]

Has anyone noticed that LaRon Landry is ballin' for the Jets? #RandomThought

Let's see if he's still ballin' late in the season...if so, then I'll join the chorus of "we may have made a mistake letting Landry walk".

And I'm really not surprised that he has started strong...he should have been well rested.

[Oldfan]

Edge rushers expend more energy on each play than other positions. If a team wants to keep up the pressure, it needs three or four. It's highly unlikely that the Skins will have an over-supply that will allow a trade when Rak returns.

[Laxpunk2006]

We all watch the games, don't we? its pretty easy to determine, based on observation that, so far in Rak's career that he hasn't made any game changing or game ending plays... Certainly not at the volume or consistency as the top tier pass rushers.

Do you watch every game of each of these players? Is it not possible that you are mostly seeing highlights of other players that present them favorably? Just because Orakpo isn't sacking the QB on the last play of the game doesn't make it any less important. Every play is a scoring opportunity and every sack, holding penalty, and pressure that leads to an incompletion or interception prevents that opportunity.

Here is another stat for you. Orakpo was the most held player in 2010 and tied for second in 2011. These aren't "should have been" holds that ES loves to complain about. These are real holding penalties.

Are these not valuable as well?

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/ext...ing-flags-2011

[authentic]

I don't get why you'd want to even consider exploring ditching a guy, who when all said and done is your best pure rusher; and who'll still only be 27 next year; to only weaken us further as we try strengthen in other areas.

Hail.

I think exploring your options with him gives you an opportunity to strengthen other weak areas on the team. And we can at least agree that LB is one of our deeper (perhaps the deepest) area of the team. I think "ditching" may be a bit harsh. Because its not like i think he's garbage, or even saying that Jackson is better. But if we can get a high draft pick (for example), i don't know why that would be out of the realm of possiblity.

[#98QBKiller]

If Rob Jackson continues to play at a high level then I'd say so. Jackson has always made plays when given the opportunity, whether it's in a regular season game or a preseason game, he always comes to play. I'm excited to see more of him this year.

[authentic]

Do you watch every game of each of these players? Is it not possible that you are mostly seeing highlights of other players that present them favorably? Just because Orakpo isn't sacking the QB on the last play of the game doesn't make it any less important. Every play is a scoring opportunity and every sack, holding penalty, and pressure that leads to an incompletion or interception prevents that opportunity.

Here is another stat for you. Orakpo was the most held player in 2010 and tied for second in 2011. These aren't "should have been" holds that ES loves to complain about. These are real holding penalties.

Are these not valuable as well?

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/ext...ing-flags-2011

All pass rushers are held. even last year folks were complaining that he needs to learn to use his hands more.. Actually there was a thread started during the offseason on that very issue. I don't think his production has matched his potential thus far in his career. I'm on record for saying that he has the talent to be top 3... He just needs to put it all together and polish his skills.

[Warpath11]

As others have mentioned we have too little a sample size for Jackson to consider moving on from Rak. Come December I'll have a better answer for you but at this point I think this discussion is a bit premature. For sake of discussion, if hypothetically, RJax gets 8-10 sacks continues to play the run real well, and make progress in his coverage drops I would not be opposed to exploring trade options for Rak (draft picks only, IMO).