Does Rob Jackson make Orakpo expendable?

[jschuck12001]

Care to explain?

We have $18 million less to spend than other teams this year and next year - after 2013, that $18 million we couldn't spend before is now available for us to spend.

So if the cap is at $126 Million next year then we can spend $108 million. if we spend the $108 million and have the players signed we need to after next year then we will have an additional $18 million the following year when the penalties are over putting us at $126 million with everyone else.

No thats it, but thinking we will have 18 mill available when we are back to par is very unlikely considering contracts that will be up or in the last year and also the fact I think we lock RG3 up long term before his 4 years are up. I think the cap issues are the main reason this topic can be debated.

[pjfootballer]

Kerrigan is a fair comparison, and statistically based on last year they're just about even. But Orakpo had a better rookie year than Kerrigan did stat wise, totaling 11 sacks.

How about waiting to see how Kerrigan does sans Rak before we start saying he's better? I really like them both. I think Kerrigan is an absolute stud. But I think you're discounting 98 way too quickly.

Both were 1st round picks. People that keep saying Rak wasn't worth the 1st round pick should say the same for Kerrigan if that's the case, since they have been pretty even in their play.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I think Woodley and Harrison are the exception to what they normally do, but you can also see that it's currently biting them in the ass and they are all getting old at the same time. They have let guys go on the regular.

Yep...and Harrison even being on the team is because they chose him (undrafted and unheralded) over Porter (30-year old Pro Bowler).

[Laxpunk2006]

We're lucky to have him? He's underrated?

And what information do you have that suggests that, other than him being a starter on the team you cheer for?

Since you're obviously a stat guy what about all of the stats I posted earlier in the thread? Total tackles and pass defenses are what you seem to be diminishing him for. What about being #1 and #2 in drawing holding penalties over the past two seasons as I posted a source for? What about being ranked among the top 15 in pass rush efficiency (including sacks, hits, hurries, etc.), higher than Julius Peppers, Clay Matthews, Mario Williams, and Jared Allen?

It seems to me that while numbers don't tell the whole story, these tell a lot more than total tackles or passes defensed without charting the actual situations.

I dont know what games you are watching but we only had 2 sacks againts the Saints as well, take that Saints game and throw it out of your memory because they are one of the worse teams in the NFL this year. We put some pressure on in all 3 games but Bradford got rid of the ball in less than 2 sec and against the Bengals our secondary was exploited. The defense basically played the same in all 3 games.

Sack numbre is not always an indicator of pass rush. New Orleans ran primarily 3 step drops and Brees has one of the quickest releases in the game today. Against that type of offense it is rare to have a high sack total but the pass rush can still create pressures and hurries. When these lead to incomplete passes they are still extremely valuable.

[BobGriffin]

I would compare him more to Rudy Gay. He is a good player at his position, but there are others in the league that are better. You know he can get better, but something is missing.

Love that comparison. All the physical talent and the world, flashes but isn't as dominant as you would think he would be.

[MLSKINS]

Love that comparison. All the physical talent and the world, flashes but isn't as dominant as you would think he would be.

Yeah, I feel the exact same way when I think about the two. They aren't bad, in fact they both are pretty good, but you know they can be better...

Hopefully we can experience some playoff success like the Grizzlies did when they lost Rudy Gay for the season.

[Laxpunk2006]

Did you know that Kerrigan, a rookie, drew more Double teams than Rak last year? True story... watch the tape.[COLOR="Gold"]

I take it this means you've charted all of their snaps from 2011? How many double teams did each player draw?

Did you miss my question or is your statement just false? Since you imply that you have evidence that Kerrigan draws more double teams than Orakpo I would love to see it.

So again, how many double teams did each player draw in 2011?

[darrelgreenie]

Rak is a top 10 pass rusher in the NFL, and I love Rob Jackson but this conversation is only warranted if he comes close to that type of production.

[CTskins]

Yeah, I feel the exact same way when I think about the two. They aren't bad, in fact they both are pretty good, but you know they can be better...

Hopefully we can experience some playoff success like the Grizzlies did when they lost Rudy Gay for the season.

The RIP Hamilton comparison is a better one. As much as I liked Rudy in College, he has never been an All-Star in his league and is not really the most dominant force on his own team. Orakpo is better than merely pretty good.

It amazes me that fan here are saying that Orakpo is a one trick pony and a just better than average player. That they would trade him for the right compensation as long as that compensation is a 1st or 2nd rounder, a CB or or a RT.

Better than average player in the NFL does not equal a 1st or 2nd Rounder in return.

Expectations need to be adjusted. Either your expectation of what comp you can get or where Orakpo's ceiling is.

[DogofWar1]

Orakpo, skillwise, was definitely worth a 1st rounder. Same thing with Kerrigan. Considering the odds of hitting on a player in the 1st round are somewhere around 50%, getting two definite good-very good starters was excellent. Both have the potential to reach beyond "very good" into "great." The key question on Orakpo now is injuries. I think he had a ton to show us this year that sadly, we won't now get to see. I sincerely hope he comes back 100% next year and lights it up like I suspect he would've this year if not for his injury.

[DC9]

We are back to not having any depth if we trade Orakpo away, we didn't have any depth at TE which resulted us in having to keep Cooley (who did we have at TE when Cooley went down the first time? no one at all).

Didn't that guy Davis come in and catch 4 tds or something like that?

Who do we have that you feel comfortable enough with if we trade Orakpo and Kerrigan goes down?

I've said I'm on board with bringing Orakpo back if the price is right. If we can trade him for a 2nd or a 3rd that would be fantastic... but that trade has to be pending on what Jackson and Wilson can do this season and how consistent they can be. I'd prefer one of them to take over the spot and do well, I'd be a little more comfortable with saying "This is Rob Jackson, he's our guy" vice saying that "here's a comittee that will replace this guy." Even though I'm high on Wilson for depth at the worst.

Orakpo hasn't been hurt for 2 straight seasons.

You are right, he wasn't out last season, but he did get the injury in the last game and now his body appears to be compensating. That's not a good size when you are that big and the position is that demanding.

Cooley came back from his first injury and have one of his best seasons and then went injured in '11 and '12. Big difference talking about a 9 year TE compared to a 3 year OLB.

Fair point about the age, but the point remains that we got nothing in return for Cooley except a divided fan base prior to the last pre-season game.

[BobGriffin]

Didn't that guy Davis come in and catch 4 tds or something like that?



I've said I'm on board with bringing Orakpo back if the price is right. If we can trade him for a 2nd or a 3rd that would be fantastic... but that trade has to be pending on what Jackson and Wilson can do this season and how consistent they can be. I'd prefer one of them to take over the spot and do well, I'd be a little more comfortable with saying "This is Rob Jackson, he's our guy" vice saying that "here's a comittee that will replace this guy." Even though I'm high on Wilson for depth at the worst.



You are right, he wasn't out last season, but he did get the injury in the last game and now his body appears to be compensating. That's not a good size when you are that big and the position is that demanding.



Fair point about the age, but the point remains that we got nothing in return for Cooley except a divided fan base prior to the last pre-season game.

Do you think a 2nd or 3rd rounder would give us more than Rak gives us ?

[DC9]

Rak is a top 10 pass rusher in the NFL, and I love Rob Jackson but this conversation is only warranted if he comes close to that type of production.

D. Ware, C. Matthews, J. Allen, J. Harrison, L. Woodley, C. Wake, M. Williams, T. Suggs, E. Dumervil, JPP, J. Tuck, T. Cole, C. Long, V. Miller... come on DG. Thats off the top of my head. I love the guy, but this fanbase consistantly over rates the players.

---------- Post added September-27th-2012 at 01:38 PM ----------

Do you think a 2nd or 3rd rounder would give us more than Rak gives us ?

Here's the thing... say that we get consistant production from one Rob Jackson. If we get a 2nd or a 3rd for Orakpo (which I think is a stretch, but possible) we can use that to address one of the other holes on this team. Offensive line... safety... corner.... trade the pick for a DB... so yes... I do think we will get MORE than what Rak gives us because we have consistency from RJack and we now have another player to fill one of the holes.

[darrelgreenie]

... come on DG..

Where are we going?
Being an effective edge rusher is about more then just sacks its about how often a player actually gets to pass rush, total pressures, QB hits, disruptions.
PFF has a metric that looks at the whole pass rushing picture not just sacks.

Rak is ranked #11 just outside top 10:


http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog...-edge-rushers/

[DC9]

Where are we going?
Being an effective edge rusher is about more then just sacks its about how often a player actually gets to pass rush, total pressures, QB hits, disruptions.
PFF has a metric that looks at the whole pass rushing picture not just sacks.

Rak is ranked #11 just outside top 10:


http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog...-edge-rushers/

Haha! Nice. But we are going on a reality check. Even your matrix doesn't have him as a top 10 pass rusher.

This is what I'm talking about. You're making me out to be a bad guy here and I'm not a bad guy! I'm an Orakpo fan and I think this is a better team with Orakpo on it. But he's not a top 10 pass rusher and he's probably not a top 15 pass rusher. That doesn't mean I think he sucks.