Does Rob Jackson make Orakpo expendable?

[skinsfan07]

My source (who is a close friend of Rak) says that Rak could be done. This is the second pectoral tear and this one was ripped completely from the shoulder. It's going to be months before he can start to fully rehab that thing and in the meantime a good portion of the left side of his body is going to atrophy. As it will be a contract year, it couldn't have happened a a worse time. I really feel sorry for the guy as he was a real pleasure to watch.

Let's hope and pray for the best. He needs one of those iRobot parts that WIll Smith had lol. I'm sure with time and rehab, he can and will recover. Let's just not rush him back too fast. If it takes til the middle of next season, I don't care. He's so young and talented, and we can't afford to have him gone already.

[70th Week]

Yesterday we hit manning once and got him off his spot only one other time.

The pressure is practically non existant.

Kerrigan is a ghost out there without him

~Bang

I think I read somewhere that before yesterday Eli had only been sacked twice. To get to him a couple times, one sack and two interceptions was outstanding...Giving up the big plays just continues to plague this defense which sits squarely on the last line of defense.......the safeties.

[Hitman21ST]

Let's hope and pray for the best. He needs one of those iRobot parts that WIll Smith had lol. I'm sure with time and rehab, he can and will recover. Let's just not rush him back too fast. If it takes til the middle of next season, I don't care. He's so young and talented, and we can't afford to have him gone already.

Luckily he tore it at the beginning of the season, so I'm still holding out hope that he'll be back at 100% for the start of next season

[Bang]

I think I read somewhere that before yesterday Eli had only been sacked twice. To get to him a couple times, one sack and two interceptions was outstanding...Giving up the big plays just continues to plague this defense which sits squarely on the last line of defense.......the safeties.

This is true,, yesterday we got him for the first time in something like 175 pass attempts.

but really, we never even made him move. That was my hard reality there.. we literally got him off his spot only once aside from the sack.

(To my unofficial count.)
I never figured we'd get much pressure on him yesterday, but jeez. we have to make QBs at least hurry once in a while.


~Bang

[acuratl1984]

Regardless, we need to draft or sign someone that has some talent as a 3 way rotation for Rak\Kerrigan. Like NYG (Tuck\Osi\JPP)

Also another thing I was thinking... did our CBs play ST last year? Is playing both ST and CBs exhausting them? so they play crappier then normal?
I know Wilson and Hall both plays ST, this season.

[MartinC]

My source (who is a close friend of Rak) says that Rak could be done. This is the second pectoral tear and this one was ripped completely from the shoulder. It's going to be months before he can start to fully rehab that thing and in the meantime a good portion of the left side of his body is going to atrophy. As it will be a contract year, it couldn't have happened a a worse time. I really feel sorry for the guy as he was a real pleasure to watch.

Sounds bad - hope your source is wrong. But given its his second tear it is a worry that this is becoming a chronic injury which might keep cropping up even if he can get back to full strength.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

My source (who is a close friend of Rak) says that Rak could be done. This is the second pectoral tear and this one was ripped completely from the shoulder. It's going to be months before he can start to fully rehab that thing and in the meantime a good portion of the left side of his body is going to atrophy. As it will be a contract year, it couldn't have happened a a worse time. I really feel sorry for the guy as he was a real pleasure to watch.

Any chance of you backing up that source man?

Not that I don't believe you. Just that would make a worthy thread all by itself.

Hail.

[Renegade7]

Man, am I glad to see this thread again. It's a good thing this didn't start witha public poll, because a lot of people were wrong about this one. Holy cow...

[ncr2h]

You're right, sacks aren't everything, but I would sure rather have 8-10 more sacks and 15-18 more QB hurries than the 2 picks that Jackson got. Without Rak, we aren't getting pressure on the QB, and he's having time to dissect the D. With Rak in, we're at least speeding up his internal clock.

We've also played 4 Pro Bowl QBs in the 5 weeks that Orakpo has been out. Pro Bowl QBs tend to (but not always) be good at reading defenses, adjusting protections, etc. which makes it more difficult to sack them. Also, it's not quite comparing apples to apples when you compare 8-10 sacks from Orakpo to the 2 interceptions from Jackson. Orakpo typically takes a full year to get 8-10 sacks, whereas it's only taken Jackson 5 weeks to get 2 picks. All in all, my point isn't that Orakpo is bad, it's that Orakpo isn't so much better than Jackson that it justifies an additional $15M in guarantees (i.e. re-signing Orakpo could take up to $20M guaranteed, whereas signing a replacement would take $5M guaranteed at the most). My point may be moot if this latest information about the injury turns out to be true - if his career really is in question then there's no way he's going to command $20M on the FA market.

And to the other guy - yes, Orakpo would not command higher than a 5th (if Mario Williams goes for a 4th, then a 5th is pretty much a best case scenario). If I were GM, I would consider taking the 5th, but ultimately would probably let Orakpo play out his contract. I'd offer him $8-10M guaranteed at the most, although with if the injury is this serious I might knock that down to $3-4M.

[Hitman21ST]

We've also played 4 Pro Bowl QBs in the 5 weeks that Orakpo has been out. Pro Bowl QBs tend to (but not always) be good at reading defenses, adjusting protections, etc. which makes it more difficult to sack them. Also, it's not quite comparing apples to apples when you compare 8-10 sacks from Orakpo to the 2 interceptions from Jackson. Orakpo typically takes a full year to get 8-10 sacks, whereas it's only taken Jackson 5 weeks to get 2 picks. All in all, my point isn't that Orakpo is bad, it's that Orakpo isn't so much better than Jackson that it justifies an additional $15M in guarantees (i.e. re-signing Orakpo could take up to $20M guaranteed, whereas signing a replacement would take $5M guaranteed at the most). My point may be moot if this latest information about the injury turns out to be true - if his career really is in question then there's no way he's going to command $20M on the FA market.

You misread my post. In the past 5 games that Rak has been out, I'm saying that we would have had 8-10 more sacks either through him, Kerrigan, or someone else - but directly because of him (double team, missed block, etc). Jackson doesn't provide the same level of play that Rak does, period. He kind of makes up for it with the pass defense, but 8-10 sacks over those 5 games are MUCH more significant than the two picks Jackson got.

[Roger.Staubach]

Any chance of you backing up that source man?

Not that I don't believe you. Just that would make a worthy thread all by itself.

Hail.

The source is a guy that works for me that played alongside Brian in college. He was nice enough to bring in his Championship rihgs to 'prove' it to me (plus there are plenty of vids on youtube of him. . Strangely (and wrongly), he switch from being a Cowboy fan to a Redskin fan despite the fact that he was family friends with Chad Hennings (ex Cowboy that finished his Air Force commitment before. I don't think it would be fair to drop his name without asking (which I will do when I return from travel).

[braindx]

My source (who is a close friend of Rak) says that Rak could be done. This is the second pectoral tear and this one was ripped completely from the shoulder. It's going to be months before he can start to fully rehab that thing and in the meantime a good portion of the left side of his body is going to atrophy. As it will be a contract year, it couldn't have happened a a worse time. I really feel sorry for the guy as he was a real pleasure to watch.

So the tendon avulsed from the humerus? Do you know where it ruptured exactly?

It's certainly possible possible to come back from that, although it usually takes more than a year to be back to full strength. Elvis Dumervil had a similar injury, and he's back playing at a high level.

Pectoral tears of the tendon typically take 5-6 months rehab or so for laypeople, but for elite athletes it may take upwards of a year or more to gain back all of the strength, stability and power. I'd estimate if this is the type of injury maybe he could be 85-95% around August next year.

That said, there are super fast healers like Peterson who can somehow come back from an ACL tear and play at high level in 8 months when it typically takes a year for full recovery, and 1.5-2 years to get all of the explosiveness back. That guy simply is not human.

The more strength/power you have before you get injured the faster your recovery will be.

We'll see I guess... unless you have more infos so we can speculate more.

[skinfan2k]

Only idiots think this. Look at Kerrigan. As the year goes on, Kerrigan is no where to be found. Orakpo opened up everything for him. Kerrigan right now is Orakpo pre-kerrigan.

[moondog]

Only idiots think this. Look at Kerrigan. As the year goes on, Kerrigan is no where to be found. Orakpo opened up everything for him. Kerrigan right now is Orakpo pre-kerrigan.

Amazing, isn't it? Kerrigan is a phenomenal player in his own right. I take nothing from him because he has earned his praise. But it really goes to show how few people truly understand how much of a team sport this is, despite how many guys are on the field together. After one year of Kerrigan and Orakpo, rather than everyone rejoicing in us finally having a young, talented pass-rushing duo (and really more than just them with the way Bowen and Carriker were playing), many people instantly were talking about Kerrigan being better than Orakpo and that Orakpo may be expendable.

Incredible that so many would be so quick to forget or overlook how talented Orakpo is. The fact is, Orakpo was the player opposing offenses constantly keyed on, double teamed and chipped almost every single play. Yet he continued to get right near double digit sacks every year, fighting through all the attention he got. That wasn't enough for people, they wanted 15+ sacks. Understandable - he is a high 1st round pick and there are a few guys out there that are able to get to that number despite also receiving the same amount of attention. But again, fans being upset and disappointed rather than happy with having one of the best young OLB in the league simply because he's not on the level that only 2-3 other guys in the league are.

While Orakpo was able to garner nearly double digit sacks every year for himself, Haslett also routinely lined up or blitzed him specifically to create excellent matchups or even unblocked plays for other guys, especially Bowen. And although Orakpo was rarely lined up on the same side as Kerrigan, he allowed Kerrigan to almost always face 1-on-1 blocking because they couldn't afford not to focus on Brian.

It is no surprise at all that not only has Kerrigan become a much less prominent figure when it comes to getting to the QB, but Bowen as well. This is not a knock on either of these players. I love them both and they are core players on our defense and they are still playing at a high level. But it is no coincidence that all of a sudden #'s 91 and 72 are around the QB much less.

This whole scenario is only compounded by the fact that we've lost Carriker as well. Jenkins is a nice player and will only get better, but Carriker is extremely undervalued just as Orakpo has been. He is another former 1st round pick that many on here do not understand how good he is because he's a 3-4 DE and his role, unlike Bowen's, lies more in eating up blockers and run-blocking rather than rushing the passer. He was playing up to his draft status in my opinion. JJ Watt? No, but Carriker is definitely sorely missed.

Finally, Rob Jackson IS a pretty decent depth/back-up player. But I get just as frustrated with people who try to argue that he's not that much of a drop-off from Orakpo. Or that before Orakpo was injured, they would say man Jackson gets some decent pass-rush when he spells Orakpo.

The fact is, Rob Jackson enjoys some success when he comes in for the same reason that Kerrigan was so successful last year playing with Orakpo. When Orakpo came out, the offense shifted all of it's focus to Kerrigan and our D-linemen, leaving Jackson 1-on-1, often with an Offensive Tackle or Running Back that was thinking more about being thankful for a play off from Orakpo rather than blocking Jackson. Jackson NOW enjoys the same comfort Kerrigan did last year, routine 1-on-1 situations and little attention from the offense, and yet he still has not generated any pass-rush.

Again, I like Jackson as a depth player, but anyone that thinks our defense will be ok with him long term rather than getting Orakpo back is crazy. Jackson may have better hands when it comes to catching the football than Rak, although both of his interceptions have been soft passes right into his mitts. In case anyone hadn't noticed, Orakpo had actually become very effective at covering the flats and near the LOS, knocking down 3 passes in 2 games.

[stevemcqueen1]

Dukes pointed out that D'Qwell Jackson had Orakpo's injury and he's back and playing well. If anyone can recover from this and grind out the rehab, it's Orakpo. The guy's bedroom is probably a fully equipped weight room.