Does Rob Jackson make Orakpo expendable?

[MrJL]

I have a question...WHY CAN'T WE KEEP BOTH OF THEM ?

here's the theory in a thread like this. We develop two good players at one position, who have to split time, and have no good players at another. We can keep both and then try to get a new player to fill the weak position, but that takes time. Or we can trade strength for strength, fill the bad position with a developed player, then build someone up behind the one good player, who no longer has to split time.

[moondog]

orakpo is so over rated. hes a good player not great when the game matters hes not to be found.

It's so tiring how little most of you get about football when most people even consider it to be the greatest team sport. Because it is played as a team. ALL you (plural) see is Jackson has an interception and you go ape**** and think he's the next Lawrence Taylor and that Orakpo or anyone else that didn't have the interception is dog ****.

Perhaps none of those with this tunnel vision view will ever understand and I'm wasting my time. Orakpo not only gets better production out of himself than Jackson does, but he is able to open up plays to the entire rest of our front 7 to either get to the quarterback or allow Fletcher/Riley to roam/float to the ball with much less traffic because the G/T are occupied with Orakpo.

Those of you that think Kerrigan is having a down year are crazy. He's now occupying the role that Orakpo had. He's eating up blockers for Fletcher and Jenkins to make plays because they are concerned primarily about Kerrigan. He's still getting to the QB as much as he did last year (only 1 sack from last year's total) but everyone seems to think he's fallen off because he hasn't forced a fumble every time he's gotten to the QB. Well guess what, he sees a lot more attention than last year and yet he still makes plenty of plays on his own (a lot of tipped passes that are turnover opportunities) and frees up Jenkins and Fletcher.

Jackson has gotten good enough to be where he needs to be. He's a solid run defender but he's not much better in that area than Orakpo. The fact that so many on here think Orakpo is only good at rushing the passer and is not good in run defense or even coverage at this point is pretty embarrasing. He is a pretty complete player. It's almost as if because he's so good at rushing, people just automatically think he sucks at other responsibilities without actually watching how he plays.

So many people see a play by Jackson and have no clue or even care about what happened around the play that made it. Often times the guy that has the "stat" part of the play did the very least. Imagine that! The fact that Jackson basically was given a handoff for a TD on his one interception and Weeden did not even see him and threw the ball right at him does not make Jackson a stud or say that Orakpo is expendable. It says that Jackson has been good enough to "be there" to make the play. I like Jackson and what he brings to the defense, I'm not dissing what he's done. I'm simply calling for you guys to wake up and open your eyes.

Jackson does a decent job of being where he's supposed to be in the defense and taking advantage of the fact that he's probably one of the least concerning people to opposing offenses that plays on our defense. He does well for himself but has little to no positive impact for the guys around him. He doesn't free up other rushers like Orakpo does and he doesn't even chew up blockers as well as Kerrigan does to free up our ILB'ers. When Kerrigan is inexplicably not blocked on the backside because opposing coaches think they can run the ball away from him and use the extra pulling blocker, he makes them pay for it dearly. So does Orakpo. Jackson does not have the athleticism or speed to make a lot of those plays. He's a good backup and has played well, but it's a huge red flag that so many of you think he's so good and Orakpo is not.

Apparently most of you do not see or watch football as a team sport and have zero friends that know the game either. Find a football coach that enjoys the skins and actually knows what he's talking about and ask him to watch a guy like Kerrigan and see if he doesn't get a huge smile watching him play the whole game. He is the absolute perfect body type for what we look for in a 3-4 OLB in OUR scheme. So is Orakpo. The responsibilities they cover and what they do on the field is not always measured in their own sacks/interceptions/whatever. And yet they still make a ton of those plays. Our front 7 was dominant last year when both Orakpo and Kerrigan were in there. Now we barely sniff a couple sacks per game. And a bunch of people on here think we're better because Jackson got his hands on a ball or two? Wow.

[JOSH8572]

people can defend eather position they want. orakpo is a typical redskins player more hype then results. the best play he has ever made is when he got the holding call against dallas to end the game. The eye test doesnt lie.

[Fear Our D!]

It's so tiring how little most of you get about football when most people even consider it to be the greatest team sport. Because it is played as a team. ALL you (plural) see is Jackson has an interception and you go ape**** and think he's the next Lawrence Taylor and that Orakpo or anyone else that didn't have the interception is dog ****.

Perhaps none of those with this tunnel vision view will ever understand and I'm wasting my time. Orakpo not only gets better production out of himself than Jackson does, but he is able to open up plays to the entire rest of our front 7 to either get to the quarterback or allow Fletcher/Riley to roam/float to the ball with much less traffic because the G/T are occupied with Orakpo.

Those of you that think Kerrigan is having a down year are crazy. He's now occupying the role that Orakpo had. He's eating up blockers for Fletcher and Jenkins to make plays because they are concerned primarily about Kerrigan. He's still getting to the QB as much as he did last year (only 1 sack from last year's total) but everyone seems to think he's fallen off because he hasn't forced a fumble every time he's gotten to the QB. Well guess what, he sees a lot more attention than last year and yet he still makes plenty of plays on his own (a lot of tipped passes that are turnover opportunities) and frees up Jenkins and Fletcher.

Jackson has gotten good enough to be where he needs to be. He's a solid run defender but he's not much better in that area than Orakpo. The fact that so many on here think Orakpo is only good at rushing the passer and is not good in run defense or even coverage at this point is pretty embarrasing. He is a pretty complete player. It's almost as if because he's so good at rushing, people just automatically think he sucks at other responsibilities without actually watching how he plays.

So many people see a play by Jackson and have no clue or even care about what happened around the play that made it. Often times the guy that has the "stat" part of the play did the very least. Imagine that! The fact that Jackson basically was given a handoff for a TD on his one interception and Weeden did not even see him and threw the ball right at him does not make Jackson a stud or say that Orakpo is expendable. It says that Jackson has been good enough to "be there" to make the play. I like Jackson and what he brings to the defense, I'm not dissing what he's done. I'm simply calling for you guys to wake up and open your eyes.

Jackson does a decent job of being where he's supposed to be in the defense and taking advantage of the fact that he's probably one of the least concerning people to opposing offenses that plays on our defense. He does well for himself but has little to no positive impact for the guys around him. He doesn't free up other rushers like Orakpo does and he doesn't even chew up blockers as well as Kerrigan does to free up our ILB'ers. When Kerrigan is inexplicably not blocked on the backside because opposing coaches think they can run the ball away from him and use the extra pulling blocker, he makes them pay for it dearly. So does Orakpo. Jackson does not have the athleticism or speed to make a lot of those plays. He's a good backup and has played well, but it's a huge red flag that so many of you think he's so good and Orakpo is not.

Apparently most of you do not see or watch football as a team sport and have zero friends that know the game either. Find a football coach that enjoys the skins and actually knows what he's talking about and ask him to watch a guy like Kerrigan and see if he doesn't get a huge smile watching him play the whole game. He is the absolute perfect body type for what we look for in a 3-4 OLB in OUR scheme. So is Orakpo. The responsibilities they cover and what they do on the field is not always measured in their own sacks/interceptions/whatever. And yet they still make a ton of those plays. Our front 7 was dominant last year when both Orakpo and Kerrigan were in there. Now we barely sniff a couple sacks per game. And a bunch of people on here think we're better because Jackson got his hands on a ball or two? Wow.

GREAT points. I agree with you 100%. Don't have to be so condescending, though! Hail.

[moondog]

GREAT points. I agree with you 100%. Don't have to be so condescending, though! Hail.

Thank you. I try really hard not to be condescending and I'm usually not. But when a thread gets to 60 pages that is filled with people that just don't understand football really well and still think we should just wheel and deal our best players like fantasy football, I eventually get tired of explaining politely and I get a little upset.

Anytime you sit down with someone that actually knows football and watches some of these guys, or in interviews with other teams' coaches, they rave about Orakpo and Kerrigan for a reason.

---------- Post added December-22nd-2012 at 11:34 AM ----------

people can defend eather position they want. orakpo is a typical redskins player more hype then results. the best play he has ever made is when he got the holding call against dallas to end the game. The eye test doesnt lie.

Incredible how short of a memory you have man. Orakpo impacts every game throughout the game exactly how I've taken a good amount of time to try, but have obviously failed, to explain to you. The fact is Orakpo gets pressure throughout an entire game, plays well in the run game and when he's not directly getting pressure himself, is either specifically being used by the coaching staff to free up other players, or he earned easier lanes for other players because of the number of guys the other team devotes to him or simply the way they shift their blockers to keep him off their QB.

You think that a mediocre game by a player who doesn't really impact his teammates' play around him becomes an exceptional game if he gets an interception or a sack at the end which was OPENED up for him by his teammates more so than his own play. Yet you place, apparently, almost no value on a player who causes several turnovers per game or opportunities by his play and how he creates opportunities for others. You see how many times opposing QB's can slide AWAY from Kerrigan or around the pocket because we routinely only get pressure from one side? That's because Orakpo is not out there. Kerrigan was, in the eyes of fans such as yourself, so dominant last year sparking this same argument against Orakpo BECAUSE if Kerrigan got much pressure, Orakpo was usually there to force a QB into his arms. Are front 7 forced a lot of errant throws and a lot of sacks/fumbles last year due to that pressure which is now completely lacking.

Our secondary was pretty much identical last year. Wanna know why our defense didn't look like it was totally lost for most of the season? Because with Orakpo and a healthy front 7, QB's did not have nearly the time to pick us apart. That is what our defense is BUILT on. When Shanahan said you need to dominant edge rushers and we're switching to a 3-4 to create more turnovers...guess what, he meant it. Our offense is built to have have a QB and LT and you can see now how effective it is with those pieces. Our defense is built to have to dominant edge rushers and a couple opportunistic secondary players. We're missing Orakpo dearly but our defense has certainly stepped it up the last several games.

You sit there and think Orakpo had ONE memorable play because all you cared about was the end of the game. The fact is he forced several holding calls and pressures throughout the game that were a huge part of why we were even in the game. On a team right now that often plays with the lead and is actually a good team, Orakpo would be that much better. Jackson is being given opportunities against teams that must get one dimensional that Orakpo almost never saw and he's still producing less than Orakpo. Apparently you forget his multiple sack first half before his injury last year against Philly. Or his sack late in the game against Eli and then later to close the game when the Giants were in the redzone, Orakpo forced Eli to run straight into Kerrigan for the sack, which was actually a fumble that guess who scooped it up and would have housed it until the refs called Eli down (although he clearly wasn't) but it didn't matter since it was on 4th down.

You clearly just do not watch the bigger picture, along with a lot of fans on here, and the fact that you have no recognition of Orakpo's impact in big games or big plays shows that either you have completely forgotten, did not watch, or just completely missed it.

Typical redskins players are more hype then results? Man then why are you even a fan if you basically think a majority of our players or the typical player are more hype then results? You need to worry less about this "hype" that the Redskins, by the way, never receive, and more about learning to see a result when it actually happens and HOW/WHY it happens because that is clearly escaping you, but you are far from alone in that.

[rk3025]

Believe Orakpo is signed for next year but Jackson is a free agent to sign with anybody?

[mojo]

Believe Orakpo is signed for next year but Jackson is a free agent to sign with anybody?

Yes. And I see many people saying "just keep both". And yes, that would be the best outcome but many people like myself feel like Jackson will be offered a contract by another team that would surpass anything the Skins would be willing to pay a backup LB.

[J-bomb]

can someone break down some film an show these magic double teams that Kerrigan is receiving..I've watched games an I've seen several downs where he is being blocked singly an doesn't beat his man...I don't want to trade anyone but we might not be able to afford Jackson next yr he would be the player to move if we can't sign him.

[planter]

Didn't we do this thread already? No, no, and no.....unless Rak cannot recover from his boo boos. Having 3 legit pass rushers is ideal. Remember both Jackson and Rak can play DE....

[wit33]

Moondog,

I agree with most if not all of your points. Avoid belittling Jackson's contribution to build up Orakpo though. Jackson has made game changing plays in multiple games now that have had direct impact on this playoff run. Some may have come from the attention Kerrigan receives on the other side, good scheming by Haslet and/or being fresh this late in the season, but you can't argue his effect on this year's team.

If he commands a large contract this offseason the Skins are going to be forced to let him go. He is most certainly playing his heart out for that next contract. He is taking full advantage of this opportunity and reaping the benefits of playing on GOOD team (feels "good" to say). These are the type of players us Skins are going to hopefully have arguments about keeping for years to come.

Go Skins!

[moondog]

Moondog,

I agree with most if not all of your points. Avoid belittling Jackson's contribution to build up Orakpo though. Jackson has made game changing plays in multiple games now that have had direct impact on this playoff run. Some may have come from the attention Kerrigan receives on the other side, good scheming by Haslet and/or being fresh this late in the season, but you can't argue his effect on this year's team.

If he commands a large contract this offseason the Skins are going to be forced to let him go. He is most certainly playing his heart out for that next contract. He is taking full advantage of this opportunity and reaping the benefits of playing on GOOD team (feels "good" to say). These are the type of players us Skins are going to hopefully have arguments about keeping for years to come.

Go Skins!

Belittling Jackson was not my intent but I can definitely see how it sounded like that's what I was doing. Two of his interceptions I'm not blown away by nor do I think they were anything special but I give him credit for being in the right place at the right time, even if in both situations an opposing quarterback just flat out did not see him and was forced into a quick decision by Kerrigan.

But you are right, Jackson has definitely played well and had some serious impact plays lately. They've made a big difference for us and I like him as a player, to be honest I always have. He's always capitalized, at least enough to stick around, on his opportunities to last through coaching changes even as a 7th round draft pick which is impressive.

I do not see any team offering him some big contract that we could not match but at the same time I think he'll be offered enough that we may have to cut bait simply because our money is better spent elsewhere if the doctors give us reason to believe Rak will come back healthy.

[KDawg]

can someone break down some film an show these magic double teams that Kerrigan is receiving..I've watched games an I've seen several downs where he is being blocked singly an doesn't beat his man...I don't want to trade anyone but we might not be able to afford Jackson next yr he would be the player to move if we can't sign him.

The term I've been using is: "Teams are paying attention to Kerrigan"

That can come in various forms. It can come as a chip. It can come from awareness of him, or it could simply come from the fact the quarterback can see him from his point of view due to the drop of a right handed quarterback always facing the defensive left, which is where Kerrigan comes from, or it can come from the quarterback's schemed drop point.

Jackson has stepped up his game lately. But, up until recently, the pocket didn't collapse from the quarterback's blindside often this year with the absence of Rak. With opposing quarterbacks not fearing the blind side rush, they don't really move in Kerrigan's direction, which prevents some of the sack production.

As a whole, I'd agree, though, that Kerrigan has underperformed as a pass rusher. But he's done well in other areas of playing defense.

[BraveWarrior]

Keep both if possible. But to answer the OP question - No.

[DC9]

Belittling Jackson was not my intent but I can definitely see how it sounded like that's what I was doing. Two of his interceptions I'm not blown away by nor do I think they were anything special but I give him credit for being in the right place at the right time, even if in both situations an opposing quarterback just flat out did not see him and was forced into a quick decision by Kerrigan.

But you are right, Jackson has definitely played well and had some serious impact plays lately. They've made a big difference for us and I like him as a player, to be honest I always have. He's always capitalized, at least enough to stick around, on his opportunities to last through coaching changes even as a 7th round draft pick which is impressive.

I do not see any team offering him some big contract that we could not match but at the same time I think he'll be offered enough that we may have to cut bait simply because our money is better spent elsewhere if the doctors give us reason to believe Rak will come back healthy.

A pick six and two picks when we were losing... both deep in enemy territory? (vs Giants in NY and vs Browns last week)

That is a play-maker. One who makes plays. You have the nerve to come in here and act like Orakpo makes the defense go? Like he doesn't need any help? Seriously? His best year statistically he had Haynesworth, Griffin, PD, and Carter rushing along with him... that's help. Not to mention that in that particular season MOST of his sacks came against the Raiders...

He was a liability in coverage then giving up several long TDs to TEs... and he is still a liability in coverage. Until late last season, he was a run stopping liability and still isn't very good at that. This season against the Saints, he continued to show us he lacks ball skills by not picking a pass that hit him in the chest.

But Orakpo nation comes out and says "He's a pass rusher." Well that's ****ing great... a pass rusher who averages 9 sacks a year and gets most of those sacks against teams like the Raiders and Rams... and dissapears in all other facets of the game.

Rob Jackson excells against the run, is the #1 rated OLB in pass coverage in the NFL, tackles well in space, and is improving as a pass rusher.

But you want to say Orakpo is better because he is better at rushing the passer? He puts pressure on the QB? Guess what? We have forced more turnovers this year already than all of last year. We're not missing that "pressure" are we? His 9 sacks? Aren't really missing them. The weakness of this defense is the safety position. If we have two average safties... we have a top 15 defense and we are probably a 10-4 football team right now.

Put down your fanboy hat for a few minutes, chill out, and enjoy you some RJax.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Oh my God...who gives a ****?? we are fighting over having two good linebackers for ****'s sake...

Can we just be happy about the fact?