ABCNews: Greece, Spanish Riots Shatter European Market Calm

[twa]

I think that's a safe bet.

Mostly, I hope that they only get worse in Greece. (Although heck. Might as well get the Fiscal Cliff train wreck started early.)

I sometimes wonder if that is why the zombie craze is in place....desensitizing us for the coming slaughter of our neighbors?

I need a drink

[visionary]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8AB0GY20121112

Spain promises to spare needy from eviction after suicides

Spanish Economy Minister Luis de Guindos promised on Monday that no needy family will go homeless over mortgage arrears, responding to public fury at a homeowner's suicide as she was being evicted.

Facing accusations that politicians and banks are complicit in de facto "murder", Spain's banking association said its members would suspend eviction orders for two years for those borrowers worst hit by economic crisis and record unemployment.

Banks have repossessed close to 400,000 homes in Spain since a property bubble burst in 2008 and the nation subsequently sank into recession, throwing millions out of work and unable to keep up mortgage payments to the banks.

Last Friday's suicide of 53-year-old Amaia Egana has inflamed a public already angered by what they see as a lack of compassion among Spanish banks, many of which have benefited from taxpayer-funded bailouts organized by the political elite.

[visionary]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...LEFTTopStories

Spain, Portugal, Greece Strike Against Austerity

Unions in Spain, Portugal and Greece went on strike Wednesday to protest government austerity plans amid a wide economic contraction across Europe's periphery, but questions remained about the unions' ability to influence economic policy.

[SnyderShrugged]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8AB0GY20121112

This says it all...

many of which have benefited from taxpayer-funded bailouts organized by the political elite.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

This says it all...

many of which have benefited from taxpayer-funded bailouts organized by the political elite.

The bigger picture says that these austerity measures have made their economies and unemployment numbers much worse.

[thebluefood]

The bigger picture says that these austerity measures have made their economies and unemployment numbers much worse.

But what else are they going to do? The facts of matter is that these European nations have to reign in their economy before they completely bust. If Greece didn't pass that austerity measure, their government would have run out of money this week. These countries are going to have to balance their accounts somehow.

When you spend more than you've got, you're going to run into trouble. When you make promises you can't keep, and it looks like that's the case in Greece and Spain, you're going to run into trouble.

[SnyderShrugged]

The bigger picture says that these austerity measures have made their economies and unemployment numbers much worse.

The phrase..

"You made your bed, now sleep in it" comes to mind.

Our bed is being made as we speak too.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

But what else are they going to do? The facts of matter is that these European nations have to reign in their economy before they completely bust. If Greece didn't pass that austerity measure, their government would have run out of money this week. These countries are going to have to balance their accounts somehow.

When you spend more than you've got, you're going to run into trouble. When you make promises you can't keep, and it looks like that's the case in Greece and Spain, you're going to run into trouble.

They should have done what we did and pass a stimulus bill and run more deficit in the short term. Then, after unemployment picked up and revenues can be generated, THEN gotten their books in order.

They are doing the opposite of what should have been done. Well, opposite order of when it should have been done.

The phrase..

"You made your bed, now sleep in it" comes to mind.

Our bed is being made as we speak too.

Not really. We are nowhere near Greece. Sorry, we aren't. And we shouldnt necessarily be trying to balance the budget right now. We should be trying to reduce the deficit, even significantly, but not at the expense of economic growth. Which is what Greece and Spain have done with these huge austerity packages.

Look, you are basically saying the US should do what Greece and Spain have done. And we should just take our medicine and lay in our beds, which sounds an awful lot like quitting to me. I don't agree. There's more than one way to skin a cat, and some ways are better than others.

[SnyderShrugged]

They should have done what we did and pass a stimulus bill and run more deficit in the short term. Then, after unemployment picked up and revenues can be generated, THEN gotten their books in order.

They are doing the opposite of what should have been done. Well, opposite order of when it should have been done.



Not really. We are nowhere near Greece. Sorry, we aren't. And we shouldnt necessarily be trying to balance the budget right now. We should be trying to reduce the deficit, even significantly, but not at the expense of economic growth. Which is what Greece and Spain have done with these huge austerity packages.

Look, you are basically saying the US should do what Greece and Spain have done. And we should just take our medicine and lay in our beds, which sounds an awful lot like quitting to me. I don't agree. There's more than one way to skin a cat, and some ways are better than others.

No, we are saying the US should pre-emptively avoid the need to do what Greece has done by doing smaller, less painful measures now rather than one huge hit when its essentially too late. We do need to take our medicine in some form though, we have caused too much damage already with the irresponsible spending. To frame it in any other manner is equal to a head in the sand and detached from reality.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

No, we are saying the US should pre-emptively avoid the need to do what Greece has done by doing smaller, less painful measures now rather than one huge hit when its essentially too late. We do need to take our medicine in some form though, we have caused too much damage already with the irresponsible spending. To frame it in any other manner is equal to a head in the sand and detached from reality.

We should have done what you said when it was actually preemptive. 2000-2007 or so. '08 was probably too late. Yes, we had a budget surplus in 2000, we pissed it away in '01-present. I agree we should have KEPT our finances in order for those 7 years. We didn't. That doesnt mean we balance our checkbook this moment.

It means you have to figure out a long term solution to getting our house back in order. The first step is to get the economy going. Then, when its going, you balance up your books. But if we balanced our books first, like Greece and Spain did, then we'd be just like them. Or just like ourselves in the '20's.

[SnyderShrugged]

We should have done what you said when it was actually preemptive. 2000-2007 or so. '08 was probably too late. Yes, we had a budget surplus in 2000, we pissed it away in '01-present. I agree we should have KEPT our finances in order for those 7 years. We didn't. That doesnt mean we balance our checkbook this moment.

It means you have to figure out a long term solution to getting our house back in order. The first step is to get the economy going. Then, when its going, you balance up your books. But if we balanced our books first, like Greece and Spain did, then we'd be just like them. Or just like ourselves in the '20's.

yep, we should have, absolutely and no one listened to the wise fellows who said so. (recall we are KOOKS?)

And again, who is saying that a full balancing of the books via Greece style austerity is mandatory now?

I'm certain we have been saying better to start now on a smaller scale to avoid the big hit. The problem is, none of ya'll big spenders on either side of the aisle is willing to stop spending. Not even willing to reduce the anticipated spending increases let alone actually reducing the real dollars spent next year vs this one.

Until this is addressed, your desire to "get the economy going" is a keynesian pipedream that has shown to be a failed approach time and time again.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

yep, we should have, absolutely and no one listened to the wise fellows who said so. (recall we are KOOKS?)

And again, who is saying that a full balancing of the books via Greece style austerity is mandatory now?

I'm certain we have been saying better to start now on a smaller scale to avoid the big hit. The problem is, none of ya'll big spenders on either side of the aisle is willing to stop spending. Not even willing to reduce the anticipated spending increases let alone actually reducing the real dollars spent next year vs this one.

Until this is addressed, your desire to "get the economy going" is a keynesian pipedream that has shown to be a failed approach time and time again.

The economy is going better now than it was. The stimulus did work. It did. We are growing at a slow but steady pace now and the spending we did, in fact, helped.

I guess Al Gore was one of those "kooks" that no one was listening to because when he ran for President in 2000, he said we should keep building a surplus as a "rainy day fund" for when/if something went bad. And it simply wasn't the time to cut spending from 2008-now. In fact, I'm not sure cutting spending now would be a good thing. But that's beyond my economic understanding. I just hear that the economy may still be too weak to cut spending at this time.

[SnyderShrugged]

The economy is going better now than it was. The stimulus did work. It did. We are growing at a slow but steady pace now and the spending we did, in fact, helped.

I guess Al Gore was one of those "kooks" that no one was listening to because when he ran for President in 2000, he said we should keep building a surplus as a "rainy day fund" for when/if something went bad. And it simply wasn't the time to cut spending from 2008-now. In fact, I'm not sure cutting spending now would be a good thing. But that's beyond my economic understanding. I just hear that the economy may still be too weak to cut spending at this time.

I dont think the final verdict on whether or not the stimulus "worked" is in yet. In the short term, maybe. In the long term...lots more to prove.

Just the "fiscal cliff" approaching alone tells us it likely didnt.

If Gore was saying that we should have dramatically reduced spending back in 2000 because he saw this disaster approaching like other unmentioned members of congress did, then my hat is definitely off to him and I wish he was listened to.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

I dont think the final verdict on whether or not the stimulus "worked" is in yet. In the short term, maybe. In the long term...lots more to prove.

Just the "fiscal cliff" approaching alone tells us it likely didnt.

If Gore was saying that we should have dramatically reduced spending back in 2000 because he saw this disaster approaching like other unmentioned members of congress did, then my hat is definitely off to him and I wish he was listened to.

The stimulus had nothing to do with the fiscal cliff. Nothing at all. You can't blame the stimulus for the "fiscal cliff." That was a deal brokered over the debt ceiling because the House was using leverage and thought they'd have a new president next year.

And yes, here's Al Gore saying he'd pay off the debt by 2012 and maintain a "rainy day fund." We decided to cut taxes and not pay for two wars instead:

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2000...-adviser-rainy