Lack of QB pressure; coaching, players or both?

[Bishop Hammer]

I hate to say it Hitman but I believe that to be homerism at its finest.

Woooh yeah. If our front seven can really get their stuff together, and work their tails off like crazy, maybe just maybe they can get close to mediocre.

Here's hoping they draft a good D-lineman in this years second round.

[Hitman21ST]

Woooh yeah. If our front seven can really get their stuff together, and work their tails off like crazy, maybe just maybe they can get close to mediocre.

Here's hoping they draft a good D-lineman in this years second round.

Right, I forgot that "real" Redskins fans have to say the team sucks.

We have a top 5 LB corps, with a top 15 DL. Put the two together, and it's a top 10 front 7. No homerism whatsoever.

[GaryGreenMonk]

Right, I forgot that "real" Redskins fans have to say the team sucks.

We have a top 5 LB corps, with a top 15 DL. Put the two together, and it's a top 10 front 7. No homerism whatsoever.

the whole DL has zero sacks, which I just pointed out. Not sure how you can say they are top 15 with a combined zero sacks. not even a half sack.

Golston, Carriker, Bowen, Cofield, Baker, Jenkins... 4 games .. zero sacks.

[Hitman21ST]

the whole DL has zero sacks, which I just pointed out. Not sure how you can say they are top 15 with a combined zero sacks. not even a half sack.

Golston, Carriker, Bowen, Cofield, Baker, Jenkins... 4 games .. zero sacks.

Because our DL isn't supposed to get sacks in the scheme we run. When they do, it's a plus, but it's not necessary.

The Patriots and Steelers DLs only have one sack apiece. It's not uncommon for 3-4 DL to not get sacks.

[GaryGreenMonk]

Because our DL isn't supposed to get sacks in the scheme we run. When they do, it's a plus, but it's not necessary.

The Patriots and Steelers DLs only have one sack apiece. It's not uncommon for 3-4 DL to not get sacks.

read my last post on page 4 and you'll get the point im making.

[Bishop Hammer]

Right, I forgot that "real" Redskins fans have to say the team sucks.

We have a top 5 LB corps, with a top 15 DL. Put the two together, and it's a top 10 front 7. No homerism whatsoever.

I didn't say the whole team "sucked". I pointed out one of its weaknesses.

So yes I guess I am a real fan because I hope it will get adressed and the team can be all that it can be.

[OlufemiBiz]

Problem 1: Haslett sucks. As others have said, his blitzes are predictable and horribly designed. LeBeau and Ryan play 2 gap 3-4s where the 3 down linemen occupy the rush, the OLBs get the outside pressure and they use creative zone blitz schemes to generate pressure. Now that Haslett doesn't have Rak on the other side, he doesn't have the creativity to scheme up blitzes to compensate.

Problem 2: Jenkins is not 100%, and Carriker is not there to generate pocket push. Cofield and Bowen have played well, but we're missing a LOT of depth up front (don't forget about Chris Neild, though not sure how Chris Baker has done).

I think we do need to bring in an experienced 3-4 coach at some point - though we could have had Romeo Crennel...

How 'bout starting Chris Baker @ NT? And, having Barry Cofield sliding over into Adam Carriker's DE spot?

As for the Safety position: Why not stop 'faking' - and 'fess-up' that our Safeties are NOT 'interchangeable' (FS/SS)?

Just MY '2¢'!?! HAIL!

[onedrop]

It's talent, guys.

London is the closest thing we have to an All-Pro player, but his age shows every time he's caught in coverage by pass catching TE. We have players that are good to above average on that side of the ball, but no one that strikes the fear of God in opposing teams coaching schemes. For example: Houston runs a 3-4 just like us, but has a DE with 7.5 sacks already. It's week f'n 5...

Most if the catches ive seen against London are based on his height, not age.

[DCsportsfan53]

Right, I forgot that "real" Redskins fans have to say the team sucks.

We have a top 5 LB corps, with a top 15 DL. Put the two together, and it's a top 10 front 7. No homerism whatsoever.

You're smoking, dude. Orakpo is average, Fletcher is still very good but isn't quite what he once was and the sudden preponderance of 6 foot 5 TEs who can run hurts him, Riley's still unproven....Kerrigan is a monster though. Our DL is made of a bunch of lunch pail hard worker guys with no studs and it lacks a legit NT to run the 3-4 scheme, especially the Pittsburgh modeled one we're trying to run. Kerrigan is the only true impact player of the bunch and none of them are elite pass rushers. The front 7 is not nearly as good as advertised.


Edit: That said I happen to believe with better coaching they could be a lot better than they have been and I think Haslett is clearly a large part of the problem.

[Hitman21ST]

You're smoking, dude. Orakpo is average, Fletcher is still very good but isn't quite what he once was and the sudden preponderance of 6 foot 5 TEs who can run hurts him, Riley's still unproven....Kerrigan is a monster though. Our DL is made of a bunch of lunch pail hard worker guys with no studs and it lacks a legit NT to run the 3-4 scheme, especially the Pittsburgh modeled one we're trying to run. Kerrigan is the only true impact player of the bunch and none of them are elite pass rushers. The front 7 is not nearly as good as advertised.

Just exactly how do you figure Orakpo is average? He's averaged just under 10 sacks per year for his first three years, has vastly improved his coverage and run support, and offenses had to gameplan for him and double him to keep him contained. But I guess any average OLB can claim that, right?

Fletcher is still one of the best ILBs in the league. He has a nose for the ball and can be counted on to make the critical stop. Sure, he can't cover 6'5 TEs, but there isn't a LB who can. Riley might be "unproven", but so far he's been up to snuff.

---------- Post added October-6th-2012 at 01:01 AM ----------

I didn't say the whole team "sucked". I pointed out one of its weaknesses.

So yes I guess I am a real fan because I hope it will get adressed and the team can be all that it can be.

No, what you said was with work, the defense (specifically the front 7, because that's what I was talking about) can get to mediocre. That means it sucks. Our front 7 isn't a weakness. Can it improve? Sure, any defense can improve. Are our DL and LBs some of the best in the league? Yes.

[PilarVIRUS]

The defense is too predictible. If they know what's coming it makes it easier to counter. It's one of the reason the kitchen sink blitzes never work.

It's not that. We're not getting enough pressure, 3.5 seconds in the pocket is too long for any CB to cover a WR if the QB not getting any pressure.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Just exactly how do you figure Orakpo is average? He's averaged just under 10 sacks per year for his first three years, has vastly improved his coverage and run support, and offenses had to gameplan for him and double him to keep him contained. But I guess any average OLB can claim that, right?

There are 13 teams that run some form of the 3-4 by my count which means there are 26 starting OLBs. DeMarcus Ware, Clay Matthews, LaMarr Woodley, and Terrell Suggs all averaged a higher number of sacks in their first three years in the league and I would be shocked if Aldon Smith didn't follow suit (and possibly blow them all out of the water). Tamba Hali's career got off to an inconsistent start in a bad 4-3 defense but the moment the Chiefs moved him to 3-4 OLB he began producing at a very high level, unlike Orakpo who seemed far slower to adapt, and I think I'd put him ahead of Orakpo as well. That puts Orakpo immediately out of the top 20% at his position. Consider also that most of us here on ES already consider Kerrigan to be the better all-around player, Chandler Jones could conceivably join the list of guys who got off to a hotter start, we don't know if Orakpo has the kind of long-term potential that a slower developing guy like James Harrison had, Robert Mathis' production seems mostly unphased by the change to OLB, and there are two former 3-4 OLBs who could also give Orakpo a run for his money in the productivity and talent departments in Wake and Dumervil. Taking all that into account could easily lead a reasonable person to rank Orakpo anywhere between 7th and 14th out of about 30 known 3-4 OLB quantities.

I don't know about you but if a guy falls neither in the top third in the league at his position or in the bottom third I'd consider him to be pretty much average. Now, I'd personally tend to put Orakpo closer to the top third than the middle of the pack and consider him to be above average... but I don't consider it at all unreasonable for someone to have a slightly lower opinion of him or a slightly different standard for what constitutes 'average'.

[ADF]

Keim put it best. In the last TWO games combined the Redskins have had 66 passes attempted against them. They've only sacked the QB 3 times and (an even more damning stat) the defense only hit the QBs 10 times. That's pathetic. Pressure is imperative. Freeman had a ton of time in the last game. He even had time in the one sack we did get. If Matt Ryan is given the same amount of time Freeman got then it's going to get ugly. Ryan isn't going to miss.

[GO HAMSKINS]

The defense is too predictible. If they know what's coming it makes it easier to counter. It's one of the reason the kitchen sink blitzes never work.

Thank god some one else realizes this!! Hass Defense is way too predictable!

---------- Post added October-6th-2012 at 02:55 PM ----------

There are 13 teams that run some form of the 3-4 by my count which means there are 26 starting OLBs. DeMarcus Ware, Clay Matthews, LaMarr Woodley, and Terrell Suggs all averaged a higher number of sacks in their first three years in the league and I would be shocked if Aldon Smith didn't follow suit (and possibly blow them all out of the water). Tamba Hali's career got off to an inconsistent start in a bad 4-3 defense but the moment the Chiefs moved him to 3-4 OLB he began producing at a very high level, unlike Orakpo who seemed far slower to adapt, and I think I'd put him ahead of Orakpo as well. That puts Orakpo immediately out of the top 20% at his position. Consider also that most of us here on ES already consider Kerrigan to be the better all-around player, Chandler Jones could conceivably join the list of guys who got off to a hotter start, we don't know if Orakpo has the kind of long-term potential that a slower developing guy like James Harrison had, Robert Mathis' production seems mostly unphased by the change to OLB, and there are two former 3-4 OLBs who could also give Orakpo a run for his money in the productivity and talent departments in Wake and Dumervil. Taking all that into account could easily lead a reasonable person to rank Orakpo anywhere between 7th and 14th out of about 30 known 3-4 OLB quantities.

I don't know about you but if a guy falls neither in the top third in the league at his position or in the bottom third I'd consider him to be pretty much average. Now, I'd personally tend to put Orakpo closer to the top third than the middle of the pack and consider him to be above average... but I don't consider it at all unreasonable for someone to have a slightly lower opinion of him or a slightly different standard for what constitutes 'average'.

LOL I stop reading after you said Rakpo is average???? smh, I guess Kerrigan is a below average 3-4 backer based on his sack #'s too lol

[Enter Apotheosis]

LOL I stop reading after you said Rakpo is average???? smh, I guess Kerrigan is a below average 3-4 backer based on his sack #'s too lol

Based on this post, I can only assume that the reason you stopped reading is because "words are hard".