Grading Bruce Allen

[NewCliche21]

All Allen does is negotiate contracts, manage the cap, and handle the bureaucracy. Shanny runs the draft and makes personnel decisions. BA is GM in name only; his role is essentially the same as Cerrato under Gibbs. The question that should be asked is how does one grade Shanny's roster building thus far.

Shanahan said that he would come here *only* if Allen were the GM.

I do the casework for all of my cases, but my supervisor (and ultimately up the chain, but let's just say it's my supervisor to make it analogous) has the final say. I do maybe 90% of the work, but I do zero unless she approves it.

Just because Shanahan has the final say doesn't mean that he does all of the work to get to that final say. If that were true, then we wouldn't need a GM. I'm not saying that it's 90%, but it's way more than for which you guys are giving credit.

An A+ would be insulting for Allen. I honestly can't believe the difference. My man cave is an absolute mess. I could work on it for hours and not notice a difference, but once I have that system in place, and I stick to it, it will be pristine. It takes a long time to fix a team.

Here's a question: Has a team ever been in such disarray, over two decades, as ours? That's not just hiring bad players or bad coaches; those are simple fixes. The big one is changing a culture of losing that is a literal fifth of a century old. It's going to be a while, but once it gets going, we'll have our six-pack of Lombardis within 10-15 years.

[chipwhich]

Shanahan said that he would come here *only* if Allen were the GM.

I do the casework for all of my cases, but my supervisor (and ultimately up the chain, but let's just say it's my supervisor to make it analogous) has the final say. I do maybe 90% of the work, but I do zero unless she approves it.

Just because Shanahan has the final say doesn't mean that he does all of the work to get to that final say. If that were true, then we wouldn't need a GM.

Allen picks no players.

Allen makes no moves without Shannys approval.

He needs a GM because he needs a capologist.

[Diesel Hog]

I like what Bruce and Shanny are doing here. The results aren't necessarily what I want, but I think the team is on the right track. We may be like 6-10 this year, but I truly believe next year we'll start seeing huge improvements (like a 10-6 record or even 11-5).

[NewCliche21]

Allen picks no players.

Allen makes no moves without Shannys approval.

He needs a GM because he needs a capologist.

I don't think that you read my post.

If he just needed a capologist, then he'd get a nerd (which we've already had or we would be in "Cap Hell") and a good lawyer (which he already has). There would be zero reason to specifically say that he wanted Bruce Allen.

You honestly think that, between being a head coach, a father, a husband, a grandfather, and everything else, he does it all on his own? He goes to every single college game, scouts every single player, without any assistance? Of course you don't. There are scouts. There are supervisors who are in charge of the scouts. And so on. They are ultimately the responsibility of Allen, and Shanahan has a big part in deciding what to do and what to look for in a player. He gives the final say. He doesn't do it all on his own.

Allen plays a massive role, and to think that he's just a capologist and contract negotiator is unrealistic.

[Riggo-toni]

Shanny wanted Allen because they were friends from Oakland...where Allen took marching orders from Al Davis. He may do more work than Shan-o as far as collecting and compiling film, notes,etc., but he is not picking any players. For that we should be grateful, since the one time he did have free reign in TB, his record was so awful Cerrato looks good by comparison.

[Oldfan]

All Allen does is negotiate contracts, manage the cap, and handle the bureaucracy. Shanny runs the draft and makes personnel decisions. BA is GM in name only; his role is essentially the same as Cerrato under Gibbs. The question that should be asked is how does one grade Shanny's roster building thus far.

That's my position also.

When it comes to building a roster, Bruce Allen was powerless working for Al Davis at Oakland, powerless working with John Gruden at Tampa Bay and he's powerless working with Shanahan. Mike would not have come here if he didn't have full control of the roster.

Tampa Bay hired him to clean up their Cap situation. He had done a very good job of handling that for Al Davis the year that Davis went strong into free agency. He's a bean-counter.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Bruce Allen is not doing a great job in the draft, because Bruce Allen is not in charge of the draft.

This is a dumb discussion.

---------- Post added October-8th-2012 at 09:40 AM ----------

Allen plays a massive role, and to think that he's just a capologist and contract negotiator is unrealistic.

True. But at the end of the day, he is a voice. This roster is Shanahan's.

[NewCliche21]

Shanny wanted Allen because they were friends from Oakland...where Allen took marching orders from Al Davis. He may do more work than Shan-o as far as collecting and compiling film, notes,etc., but he is not picking any players. For that we should be grateful, since the one time he did have free reign in TB, his record was so awful Cerrato looks good by comparison.

He picked him because they were friends? Shanahan hasn't shown you that he's competitive as hell as friendships don't matter on the field? He's friends with Fischer whose dirty ass team was trying to hurt his players. Friendships don't matter between the guns.

And you don't think that collecting and compiling film, notes, and the plethora of things that you summed up in "etc." is a ton of work that contributes to the players? That he doesn't have an opinion that his heavily weighted?

He's shown that he can't be in charge, but you don't get the opportunity to be in charge unless you've shown talent to do so.

Or are a quarterbacks coach for the Seahawks.

[skinsfan07]

When you consider the mind-boggling mess he inherited and the restrictions he's worked under, I'd say Allen has done an incredible job for us.

THIS! I think he's been nothing short of fantastic. This team was in a black hole before he came in.

[NewCliche21]

That's my position also.

When it comes to building a roster, Bruce Allen was powerless working for Al Davis at Oakland, powerless working with John Gruden at Tampa Bay and he's powerless working with Shanahan. Mike would not have come here if he didn't have full control of the roster.

Tampa Bay hired him to clean up their Cap situation. He had done a very good job of handling that for Al Davis the year that Davis went strong into free agency. He's a bean-counter.

The vice president is powerless in policy creation. So he doesn't have a major influence? The secretary of state is nothing? No way in hell. Even Hitler listened to his generals and advisers, and he had a little bit more power in his situation than Shanahan.

To think that Shanahan is doing this is illogical.

---------- Post added October-8th-2012 at 10:56 AM ----------

True. But at the end of the day, he is a voice. This roster is Shanahan's.

I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm disagreeing with the idea that he has no part in it and is just a bean counter.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

He picked him because they were friends?

Well...he picked him because they had a pre-existing relationship.

Shanahan hasn't shown you that he's competitive as hell as friendships don't matter on the field?

Um...you are really going to go down this road with a coach who hired his son as OC?!?!?! I'm not attacking Kyle's qualifications or performance, but this has been very similar to Gibbs 2.0 when Gibbs brought in all his old buddies.

[DCsportsfan53]

Imo its impossible to judge because I don't think he's that heavily involved in selecting the players. He's a cap guy and a deal maker, shany its the personnel guy.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm disagreeing with the idea that he has no part in it and is just a bean counter.

I don't know how much weight his vote carries with Shanahan just liked I never knew what weight Cerrato's carried with Gibbs.

I will say this: I don't think he was the one who made the decision to sign McNabb nor do I think he made the decision to go after RGIII as aggressively as we did.

[MattFancy]

I don't really have any complaints with Allen. Sure our secondary isn't great, but we tried to address it this offseason. Maybe not with the right guys, but after the cap penalty, it was hard to sign big impact players that could help us.

[Oldfan]

The vice president is powerless in policy creation. So he doesn't have a major influence? The secretary of state is nothing? No way in hell. Even Hitler listened to his generals and advisers, and he had a little bit more power in his situation than Shanahan.

To think that Shanahan is doing this is illogical.

The examples you used were of men who had some expertise to offer their superior. Beyond cap considerations and contract negotiations, can you tell me what expertise Bruce Allen has in selecting players and roster building that would interest Mike Shanahan?