I have a concern about the Shanahan offensive scheme.

[Bang]

The guy that seems to not buy into ball control this year is Belichick -- he is running a lot of no huddle/quick score style play.

And he's doing it by running the ball. Everything is turned on it's head. He has more TEs than WRs..his defense isn't particularly strong..

If that isn't qualifications for Mad Genius, I don't know what is..

~Bang

[GWinSkins83]

How many Superbowls Plummer got? How many Mike got? Plummer got sourgrapes. 1st he say Mike is stubborn for tailor the offense around RG3. Now he did that now he tries his hand with this. And surely got some people to bit. While others are very knowledgeable about offense know Mike Shanahan has always been about ball security and time of possession. Which Plummer never was good at.

[Skinsinparadise]

And he's doing it by running the ball. Everything is turned on it's head. He has more TEs than WRs..his defense isn't particularly strong..

If that isn't qualifications for Mad Genius, I don't know what is..

~Bang

RG 3 has thrown the ball 139 times, Brady 185. So they are flinging it too. But yeah its definitely regarded right now as a quick strike offense. yeah maybe it is the mad genius approach -- some say the offense is modeled off of Oregon's.

[ConnSKINS26]

Learn to debate if you would like a response from me. Stick to my argument. Your opinions of me or how I debate are not relevant. Your opinions or my motives of my biases are not relevant.

Ah. I thought I had missed your posting. Now I realize that I didn't.

[Shawn12]

Hey let's run a two QB system with RGIII and Kirk... Oh wait that was Oldfan's big thread last year. I can appreciate the thought given in these threads, but the premises always seem ridiculous. No coach would stake their claim on offensive stats alone. It's all about W's and Super Bowls. Plain and simple. Coach's don't keep their jobs by having players with great stats. Coaches keep their jobs by winning. I would say that winning and good stats go hand in hand, however. Therefore, it would only make sense a coach would monitor the stats. Having a QB like Mike Vick who may squeak out a win or two does not compensate for his piss poor performance. End result is no long term success and no championships. So, a coach has to monitor stats, but to really think a coach obsesses as though that's all that matters is ridiculous.

[RedskinParadigm]

RG 3 has thrown the ball 139 times, Brady 185. So they are flinging it too. But yeah its definitely regarded right now as a quick strike offense. yeah maybe it is the mad genius approach -- some say the offense is modeled off of Oregon's.

It's funny that the Patriots are considered quick-strike (I don't think it's an incorrect characterization, necessarily). I say that because they are averaging an absurd number of first downs per game: 30.2.

To put that in perspective, Detroit is #2 in the NFL with 25.5 first downs per game. The difference between NE and DET (#1 and #2) is the same difference between DET and HOU (#2 and #16). That is a shocking disparity.

[MassSkinsFan]

Okay, now I understand. I probably should have figured that out.

I'll refer you back to the Blache example: If Greg thought that coaching for a high ranking on the NFL points stat was the best way to help the team win, then his motive was pure but he was wrong. The stat is deceptive and misled him to the wrong strategy.

If Blache's motive was self-serving -- he coached for a high ranking for his unit only for job security. Then his motive was impure.

But either way, the team suffers when coaches lose sight of the goal which is to win games.

The same reasoning would apply in Shanahan's case.---------- Post added October-11th-2012 at 04:23 PM ----------

I'm going to take a break to watch that Nats play. I'll respond to all posts when I return.

Fair enough OF - but to carry my thought process one step further, we don't know, based upon Plummer's quote, which stats MS was purportedly focused on. So, we don't know if he was wrong to be focused on stats. If it was a truly meaningful stat, then althgouh his focus may have been on that stat, there was another factor contributing to poor W/L record.

I'm thinking he used stats to back up assertions that people should execute better, and that Plummer took that poorly. But that's just my speculative imagination running wild.

In the Plummer case, leadership plays a big part of it. If MS calls the team to task over lack of execution, demainding perfection, and Plummer gets behind that, working to improve himself and his teammates, that is infectious. So is him sulking over a perceived slight. RGIII is probably a much better fit for MS, since he seems like the kind of person who expects as much or more of himself as others do.

[Skinsinparadise]

It's funny that the Patriots are considered quick-strike (I don't think it's an incorrect characterization, necessarily). I say that because they are averaging an absurd number of first downs per game: 30.2.

To put that in perspective, Detroit is #2 in the NFL with 25.5 first downs per game. The difference between NE and DET (#1 and #2) is the same difference between DET and HOU (#2 and #16). That is a shocking disparity.

I think the quick strike is much to do with the no huddle stuff they are doing a lot. But to your point, yeah if you make first downs and are successful -- you are going to control the ball more hence the skins being abysmal at third down hurts their ability to ball control. Players have commented about Atlanta's ball control in the last game -- i don't get the vibe that ball control isn't on Shanny's agenda.

[darrelgreenie]

It's funny that the Patriots are considered quick-strike (I don't think it's an incorrect characterization, necessarily). I say that because they are averaging an absurd number of first downs per game: 30.2.

To put that in perspective, Detroit is #2 in the NFL with 25.5 first downs per game. The difference between NE and DET (#1 and #2) is the same difference between DET and HOU (#2 and #16). That is a shocking disparity.

I think people still think of the Pats from 2 years ago.
This year they're seem to be making a concerted effort to regain balance by running the ball.

[FSUSkins24]

Oh dear god.

Every year it's the same thing. It doesn't matter if we look good or look bad. Some fan thinks he knows more about coaching, or about players he has never seen practice in person much less watched and graded every day by coaches with decades of ACTUAL NFL coaching experience and decides this forum is the place to be recognized for their "undeniable football godhood." At some level it's a natural thing. we are all fans. All proud of our football IQ. And we all want the respect of our peers for it. But EVERY YEAR some one, or several people exhibit new levels of hubris with outlandish diatribes against the their coach of choice for some perceived mismanagement of the team.

This year has reached new levels of absurdity. I thought the thread asking if Kyle's "run, run, run" offense got RG3 injured even though the play was clearly a pass that RG3 decided to run on and then made the bad decision to not get out of bounds or slide. And questioning Shanahan's "nepotism" even though it's constantly been show that being the son of a coach or player is a great advantage in the NFL because they begin learning the game so completely at such an early age. An Kyle proved himself in Texas as an OC before coming here. But this thread takes the ******* cake and just throws it against the wall.

Evidently, now our stats are "too good.". Apparently our Head coach with multiple superbowls doesn't care about winning as much as padding stats. and putting up lots of points is not a good way to win games (has oldfan even heard of the patriots?) It's a position so patently stupid, it hurts my brain.

Please people. Give it a rest. We have a great, probably Hall of Fame coach with proven success developing great QB's and an actual franchise quarterback. Sit back and enjoy the ride.

You saved me a lot of time with this response.

[NewCliche21]

Learn to debate if you would like a response from me. Stick to my argument. Your opinions of me or how I debate are not relevant. Your opinions or my motives of my biases are not relevant.

Jee.
Zus.

Oldfan, it may not be the largest one, but I'm definitely a member of your fanclub. I've never seen someone stick to his guns like you do and consistently act the same way in every discussion. Well done, sir.

[bedlamVR]

Okay, now I understand. I probably should have figured that out.

I'll refer you back to the Blache example: If Greg thought that coaching for a high ranking on the NFL points stat was the best way to help the team win, then his motive was pure but he was wrong. The stat is deceptive and misled him to the wrong strategy.

If Blache's motive was self-serving -- he coached for a high ranking for his unit only for job security. Then his motive was impure.

But either way, the team suffers when coaches lose sight of the goal which is to win games.

The same reasoning would apply in Shanahan's case.

---------- Post added October-11th-2012 at 04:23 PM ----------

I'm going to take a break to watch that Nats play. I'll respond to all posts when I return.

I think you are fitting the facts to pad around your own perception . The thing is if you have an effective and explosive offense and a weak defense and every game turns into a shoot out then you are going to put up significant offensive statistics . It is not the case that to put up significant offensive statistics so you field a weak defense which makes every game into a shoot out . The egg does not follow the chicken in this case .

There is another point to be made - People talk about Shanahans Ego - of course head coaches are going to have egos - there is no way in the world you could put up with as much crap as they do from players, media and fans if they did not have an ego and believe in what they wanted to do - but I do not think that ego gets in the way of doing his job - which is what i am summizing is your position and he is more concerned with stats than wins ...

There is an interesting test to this .. no coach likes being shut out of a game EVER . Shanahan had never been shut out in a game in the NFL then along come the bills in 2011 and for the first time in 24 seasons in the NFL Shanahan was on the wrong end of as shut out . That in of itself is not the surprising thing - but what was, was late in the forth quarter the game totally out of reach we drove down the field and had a opportunity for a chip in 23 yard field goal (or something of that ilk- it was not a difficult kick) someone obsessed with statistics (as you presume Shanahan is) would have gone for the 3 points in a meaningless score but instead he kept the kicker on the sideline and went for it on 4th down (and ultimately failed) but I was impressed by the resilience and never give up attitude . A FG would give us nothing but TD two point conversion - recovered onside kick and quick score and a two point conversion and another onside kick and quick score - would have been nothing short of a miracle on a loaves and fishes scale but you get the point - the coach did the thing that gave the team the best chance (even if it was a miniscule chance) of winning - over his reputation and just putting points up to retain a 24 year old statistic .

Also Greg Blache coached in the NFL for 21 years and I can imagine his first thought was to put the best defense on the field he could to help the team win . If the team wins he has no concerns about job security . If he had been concerned about job security and believed the way to get it was to field a statisticly superior but on the field inferior team - why in 2009 did he essentially step down from the defense in week 3 ...

I just don't get the OPs point

[Bang]

as far as ego goes... these are NFL head coaches. there's only 32 of them.
They're ALL alphas.

and i've yet to meet an alpha that didn't know they were an alpha.

every one of these men have risen to the top of their profession, and none of them got there by accident or luck. The egos they have are earned. And they all have it, no matter how humble they may outwardly seem .. even a guy like Tony Dungy has an ego. People who compete for a living to reach this level are driven in ways to which most of us can't relate.
They may find out once they reach the peak they are out of place, but the ones who survive and win, they belong.

At this level, ego stems from confidence, and their confidence is rooted in the fact that they've accomplished much in their chosen field.


~Bang

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

When you're losing, people tend to have plenty of time to drag out all kinds of stats and quotes from a QB that Shanny turned into a freaking Pro Bowler. Shanahan made Plummer, and if he can't see that, then that's on him.

I understand the thread's premise, but I think the reasoning is flawed. Pick on Shanny for personnel moves, in game coaching, etc., but to say that he is padding his stats for some ego related reason is quite a stretch. I'm not saying he doesn't have a huge ego, he does...but the only way he can stroke it is to get us to the Superbowl.

This may not belong here, but I still think Shanny takes a lot of flack for not getting us far enough along without the true recognition of how old/awful/stank/musty/putrid/disgusting/unbearable/nauseating/inept/full retard our team was when he arrived. Seriously people, can you please remember where we were when he got here? People say that they can, but I can tell by a lot of threads that many posters cannot.

[veteranskinsfan]

I heard the old former ball coach Herman Edwards on ESPN radio on Monday morning talk about mistakes head coaches make. He stressed that all head coaches should take good players and fit their skills into their "system" and not vice versa. Shanahan changed around our defense to a 3-4 and look how long it took to draft players who played well in the changed defense and we still are not set on defense at all. Part of Oldfan's argument that the Shanahans rely on offensive stats also means they believe "their" system is really important and they do not believe in the Herm Edwards approach which is to really look at your best players and see what they do well first before installing the "system". This year the Shanahans claim they are molding RGIII by being flexible and not being as rigid as they had been in previous years with our less than successful string of bad quarterbacks. At least Oldfan threads makes us all think a lot more about what is happening with the direction of our team regardless of our wins and losses each year.